Motor Vehicle Record and Flying Jobs

Discussion in 'Pilot Training' started by Travel360, Jul 28, 2019.

  1. Travel360

    Travel360 Filing Flight Plan

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    My driver's license was unfortunately recently suspended for speeding. How will this impact my ability to get a flying job? I'm currently working on my PPL, so I still have quite a bit of time before I start applying for jobs. I've even heard of pilots with a DUI getting selected at the airlines!
     
  2. Clip4

    Clip4 Final Approach

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    61.3 Requirement for certificates, ratings, and authorizations.
    (a) Required pilot certificate for operating a civil aircraft of the United States. No person may serve as a required pilot flight crewmember of a civil aircraft of the United States, unless that person:

    (1) Has in the person's physical possession or readily accessible in the aircraft when exercising the privileges of that pilot certificate or authorization—

    (i) A pilot certificate issued under this part and in accordance with §61.19;

    (ii) A special purpose pilot authorization issued under §61.77;

    (iii) A temporary certificate issued under §61.17;

    (iv) A document conveying temporary authority to exercise certificate privileges issued by the Airmen Certification Branch under §61.29(e);

    (v) When engaged in a flight operation within the United States for a part 119 certificate holder authorized to conduct operations under part 121 or 135 of this chapter, a temporary document provided by that certificate holder under an approved certificate verification plan;

    (vi) When engaged in a flight operation within the United States for a fractional ownership program manager authorized to conduct operations under part 91, subpart K, of this chapter, a temporary document provided by that program manager under an approved certificate verification plan; or

    (vii) When operating an aircraft within a foreign country, a pilot license issued by that country may be used.

    (2) Has a photo identification that is in that person's physical possession or readily accessible in the aircraft when exercising the privileges of that pilot certificate or authorization. The photo identification must be a:

    (i) Driver's license issued by a State, the District of Columbia, or territory or possession of the United States;

    (ii) Government identification card issued by the Federal government, a State, the District of Columbia, or a territory or possession of the United States;

    (iii) U.S. Armed Forces' identification card;

    (iv) Official passport;

    (v) Credential that authorizes unescorted access to a security identification display area at an airport regulated under 49 CFR part 1542; or

    (vi) Other form of identification that the Administrator finds acceptable.


    61.2 Exercise of Privilege.

    (a) Validity. No person may:
    (6) may use an official government issued driver's license to meet any requirements of part 61 related to holding that driver's license, if the driver's license is surrendered, suspended, revoked or expired.



    There is a proven direct correlation between a bad driving record and aircraft accidents. Before you can solo you need another form of ID such as a passport or state ID card.

    Besides that, who wants to hire pilot to carry paying passengers who can’t drive himself to work?

    The good news is you have plenty of time to quit driving like you are nuts and getting your driving record in better shape. If pilot hiring slows down, any thing can render you unemployable.
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2019
  3. Unit74

    Unit74 Final Approach

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    So use a passport....
     
  4. sourdough44

    sourdough44 Pattern Altitude

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    You have to balance out that transgression with good stuff, no more traffic offenses. You have a ways to go, like you mentioned, even a DUI can be softened over years.

    It is a black mark, but I doubt your’re looking for a flying job in the next few months.
     
  5. MauleSkinner

    MauleSkinner Final Approach

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    How fast do you have to go, and how many times, to get your license suspended?
     
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  6. JOhnH

    JOhnH Touchdown! Greaser!

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    That was my thought. I know a bunch of people with multiple speeding tickets that never had their license suspended.
     
  7. AggieMike88

    AggieMike88 Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    The original "I don't know it all" of aviation.
    Question for the gallery: any requirement to report license suspensions such as this to the FAA?
     
  8. Juliet Hotel

    Juliet Hotel Pattern Altitude

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    I no longer fly for a living and even when I did, I didn't do airline work. That being said, I did hire and fire back then and though I no longer work in aviation, I still hire and fire in my current position which is trucking. And as a person who hires and fires people to drive I have to say, speeding tickets don't in and of themselves make me skip over an applicant. But losing your license due to speeding?

    Honestly there is no way I'd look at you for any position. Speeding enough to lose your license is kind of like getting kicked out of Guns and Roses because your drug habit is just too out of hand. Its a red flag for sure. Will the airlines care? I don't know because I'm not the airlines. But as someone who has been in the position of hiring and firing in several different fields, I wouldn't consider you for any position unless and until you could show many years (probably 10 or more) of absolute bulletproof clean living and solid decision making.

    Figure out how you got where you are and fix it. Fix it a lot.
     
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  9. benyflyguy

    benyflyguy En-Route

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    In PA I think you can loose it for being 26mph over. Or blowing through a work area. Or passing a stopped school bus.
     
  10. Clip4

    Clip4 Final Approach

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    Depends on the state. Most are 12 point / 24 month states with violations of 2 points each, 6 points for reckless operation. So 6 speeding tickets in 24 months you are suspended. Drive real fast you can get a reckless operation and a speeding violation for 8 points.
     
  11. Clip4

    Clip4 Final Approach

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    Proof of identity must be presented with all passport applications. Acceptable forms of identification include an existing passport, naturalization certificate, driver's license, military ID card or other current government-issued ID. A photocopy of the identity documents also must accompany the passport application.
     
  12. Unit74

    Unit74 Final Approach

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    Fixes that your you..... you skipped a few. :rolleyes:
     
  13. deyoung

    deyoung Pre-takeoff checklist

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    If you're going fast enough then once is enough. Otherwise, count points as someone else said, and I'm sure it will vary by state.
     
  14. Deelee

    Deelee Line Up and Wait

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    Nothing in the FAR that I know of. Only alcohol or drug related offenses. 61.15 defines motor vehicle action as something that happens only as a result of intoxication due to drugs/alcohol.

    That's the only reg that even comes close. And it has to be due to drugs/alcohol - not speeding, reckless driving, whatever else...
     
  15. Finnelly

    Finnelly Pre-Flight

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    Driving record and credit score are huge factors in getting an airline job, what better way to judge you?

    I raised my kids preaching that they never pay a ticket, always hire a lawyer to fix it.

    Dan
     
  16. Juliet Hotel

    Juliet Hotel Pattern Altitude

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    Not getting a ticket in the first place is also an option.
     
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  17. old_biker

    old_biker Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Credit score not always best, a friend has worst bank had seen, but had never had nor used any credit, had always paid cash, then when needed couldn't get it at all. But had good driving record, and had lived over 40 years without having any debt.
     
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  18. Tantalum

    Tantalum Final Approach

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    Technically the credit score is doing its job then.. if you never have a credit and always pay in cash there is no actual record of you being credit worthy. You may be the most responsible person on earth (to your point, always living within your means), but I do think someone's credit worthiness is a fair litmus for at least some character traits

    One of my old old old jobs was helping screen renters for apartments, mostly just collecting the necessary paperwork and presenting to landlord, well I found an almost direct linear correlation between credit scores and just general human decency.

    The people with the 780-800+ range always had the paperwork together, showed up on time or early to appointments, were responsive to email, etc.
    The people with the 500 range always had an initial sob story and would beg for consideration.. then would either show up very late or entirely miss appointments, not answer emails, terrible at communication, etc., then a month later not understand why the landlord went with someone else

    If I'm hiring someone to represent me or my company/brand I'm certainly looking at credit scores. Granted, some people will get screwed (divorce, loss of job, etc.), but with hard work you can recover your score.. and I'm not aware (personally) of an employer that would outright not hire someone based solely on credit score
     
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  19. Rgbeard

    Rgbeard Pattern Altitude

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    My wife and I manage some of our own condos in Phx, and find exactly the same correlation.

    If you're unprepared, fail to communicate, and always have a sob story, you're not moving in to something we own. BTDT.
     
  20. EdFred

    EdFred Taxi to Parking

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    You can be completely following the rules and get a cop that's bent on giving you a ticket and lie his ass off to do so.

    Happened to me, only reason I got off was because his dash cam confirmed MY side. Still had to go to court to fight it. Had it not been for the cam who's the judge going to believe?
     
  21. EdFred

    EdFred Taxi to Parking

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    Been watching my score continually drop. Was over 830 a few years back. But I closed a HELoC and a couple old cards that I didnt even possess anymore and with no car payment house payment etc it just keeps dropping.
     
  22. Tantalum

    Tantalum Final Approach

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    830 is epic, nice work sir! The highest I got was 804.. somewhere in the mid to high 780 range now (the reasons for which are for another thread.. maybe). I'm surprised it should keep dropping though with an established history.
     
  23. MauleSkinner

    MauleSkinner Final Approach

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    Credit score is as much about being willing to continue having debt as it is paying debt.
     
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  24. Juliet Hotel

    Juliet Hotel Pattern Altitude

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    Yep cops write bogus tickets all the time. At least they do according to the drivers I manage. But I drove professionally day in and day out for many years and yet I never managed to get a ticket or even get pulled over. How does that happen? I must of just been extremely lucky that I happened to be driving only of the days all those rogue bogus ticket writing officers were on vacation. :rolleyes:
     
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  25. Ventucky Red

    Ventucky Red Cleared for Takeoff

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    Exactly how fast were you going... fast enough to be considered reckless driving? I don't know where you're located but here in the Peoples Republic of California you would need two speeding tickets to lose your drivers license and even then just the mere mention of bringing a lawyer to the DMV hearing would get at the least a stern warning, heavy fine, and a Cinderella license..
     
  26. Ventucky Red

    Ventucky Red Cleared for Takeoff

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    Like Tantalum I did some property management in my early life.... one of the old timers in the business told me to walk the prospected tenant to their car a look in it... if it was a mess, that is a tell tale sign as to what kind of tenant they were going to be...

    Got hooked in with the two local Navy bases and worked with their housing office... rent was late, you called the housing office and check was in your hand the next day.... had a problem with a tenant, called the housing office, problems was solved the next day.... etc.... the only issue there was you had to work with their scales for rent which were about 5 to 10 percent below the market...... but most of my principles didn't care as many of the leases were two years with month month for the third year... rent was always on time and the maintenance was pretty easy as many of my tenants were ensign and above..
     
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  27. EdFred

    EdFred Taxi to Parking

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    Well in my case, I was following a line of cars on my motorcycle and we were all doing the speed limit for the previous mile and a half. His radar gun got a double return from myself and the car in front of me, and it went from reading speed limit, speed limit, speed limit, 15 over, speed limit, speed limit, speed limit. It never showed speeding up or slowing down. On top of that he lied about what his radar gun read, threatened me with jail time (also a lie based on the speed) and one or two other things, I have to go through my notes from the case to remember exactly what they were. So tell me Mr I Drive Professionally and Never Get Pulled Over, how does a motorcycle quantum accelerate and decelerate?

    Maybe if you read everything I wrote instead of being a pretentious ****wit you would have noticed that the dash cam actually confirmed MY side of the story. How? I was able to go out, break the film down frame by frame with the timestamps, actually take physical measurements of where I was, and confirm that I was in fact doing the speed limit based on v = d/t. In fact it would have been impossible for me NOT to be doing so, because I would have had to drive through the car in front of me to be breaking the speed limit.

    What's your preferred ride right now?
    Percheron, Clydesdale, Shire?
     
  28. Juliet Hotel

    Juliet Hotel Pattern Altitude

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    Guess I touched a nerve. Sucks being you.

    My preferred ride?
     
  29. EdFred

    EdFred Taxi to Parking

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    Or you just have zero clue about the particular situation you felt the need to be an expert on. Maybe your yap should stay closed if you dont have all the info.

    Yeah, those are 3 of the largest horse breeds. Wondering which high horse your steed is.
     
  30. Juliet Hotel

    Juliet Hotel Pattern Altitude

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    Ah my high horse. Got it. Very clever. Well I'll go ahead and make your day and concede that you in fact did experience one of the few extremely rare events when an officer wrote a bogus ticket. Good on you for successfully setting the record straight and showing that you were the victim and that justice was able to prevail. There, happy now?
     
  31. Caramon13

    Caramon13 Pattern Altitude

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    @Tantalum you can be denied employment if you have a low credit score for jobs involving handling cash or being around lots of money. Technically that's not really legal though as I understand it, but they aren't going to be stupid enough to tell you that's why they denied you. They'll make up some other reason.
     
  32. old_biker

    old_biker Pre-takeoff checklist

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    A guy I go to church with went to buy a house, had good credit, bank aparantly allowed his credit to be checked and his score dropped over 100 points, when time came bank wanted him to accept his new loan interest thanks to lower score he has thanks to the bank, it was going to be close to $100 more a month for 30 years, end result he cussed bank totally out, walked away from house he was going to buy, and still lives at home, he will try again in a few years, and this was around 2 years ago
     
  33. Tantalum

    Tantalum Final Approach

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    I suppose if someone has a proven track record of being bad with money you may not want them in a financially sensitive position! Granted.. why would it be illegal to screen strictly based on that? I don't believe credit worthiness to be a protected class https://www.eeoc.gov/employers/smallbusiness/faq/who_is_protected.cf
     
  34. Caramon13

    Caramon13 Pattern Altitude

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    Depends on the state I believe. There are 11 that can't discriminate on that. Most of the US can though, you are correct.

    Reference here
     
  35. 1RTK1

    1RTK1 Cleared for Takeoff

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    How freaking fast were you going?
     
  36. Tantalum

    Tantalum Final Approach

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    He was driving in a crosswind though.. so his GS was dubious
     
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  37. SkyDog58

    SkyDog58 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    And he had just performed a downwind turn.
     
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  38. lancie00

    lancie00 Line Up and Wait

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    Credit scores are a joke. They don't tell a lender how likely a borrower is to pay back or how responsible they are, they tell the lender if they are more or less likely to make money.

    For example:
    1. Never had a loan = never paid interest = more likely to pay off loan early = lender less likely to make money = low credit score

    2. Has had several loans = occasional late payment but always pays over entire term = pays the most in interest & late fees = lender makes most money = high credit score.

    FYI, I say this with a good credit score so it's not like I'm bitter, I just don't think they're a good indicator of loan repayment.
     
  39. bluerooster

    bluerooster Pattern Altitude

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    I believe there is a "catch all" line on the medical application. When that question is answered in the affirmative, then an explanation is required.
    If the question is answered in the negative, and later found to be inaccurate, a more in depth explanation will be required.
     
  40. AggieMike88

    AggieMike88 Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    The original "I don't know it all" of aviation.
    Thanks for the above. However, my question was more about immediate reporting such as when you have an alcohol related offense