GilligansRodeo
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MOSAIC Finalized
- Thread starter GilligansRodeo
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Baked Potato
Pattern Altitude
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Or for the HBO miniseries next year. It's being directed by the White Lotus folks so it will be interesting to see who dies at the end.
According to AVWeb, FAA is supposed to announce the final MOSAIC rules today!!!
I thought this day would never come. To celebrate, I've inserted an image of me flying a Cherokee as PIC. If you look closely you can see that I don't have a medical certificate on my person.
I thought this day would never come. To celebrate, I've inserted an image of me flying a Cherokee as PIC. If you look closely you can see that I don't have a medical certificate on my person.
Kenny Phillips
Final Approach
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The most important bit, for me (and I did send in a request for same): "This final rule increases the light-sport category maximum stall speed to 61 knots CAS Vso for an airplane ..."
If I read the cliff notes version correctly (the 2 page someone posted earlier) not much changes for my cherokee other than it may be flown as LSA as per MOSAIC. Annual still Part 43. Unclear if I can install experimental avionics instead of certified but I doubt it.
Humor in uniform . . .
Dana
Final Approach
58kt stall, 250kt max, no weight limit, 4 seats, retracts and controllable prop now OK for a Sport Pilot. LSA repairman (16 hour course) can now do the annual condition inspection on an E-AB).
GilligansRodeo
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Campus Comedy
This immediately brought up some unexpected memories. I hadn't thought about Reader's Digest for a long time!
My grandfather bought a lifetime subscription in the...50s? 60s? Not important. When he died in '86, my grandmother called them to let them know he had passed and to cancel the subscription. Their response was along the lines of, "wow, nobody's ever called us about a death before, so just keep the subscription." I was reading that mag well into what feels like the mid/late 90s until they just stopped sending it with no warning. No real complaints when it stopped since it was "free"!
moparrob66
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Cool. Anybody want to buy a 172?
RangeRider
Pre-takeoff checklist
No longer require manufacturer’s approval for SLSA minor alterations. YEAH!
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Some, if not most of 182s will fall under Mosaic. That will probably send their prices up even more.
DaleB
Final Approach
I talked about that with a former partner (there are four of us that own an RV-12; he sold his share before he moved). He's looking for something right now. I'll be discussing options with my current partners. I don't think a 172 is on the table for either of us, though. What I've got now is faster than most of them we see, and it has a much, much lower hourly operating cost... plus we do all of the maintenance and the condition inspection. Really the only effect this has on us is that the RV-12 is no longer at the very top of the LSA envelope. It's still what it was the day before yesterday - a 120 kt airplane with modern avionics and a GPS-coupled autopilot that burns MOGAS and is a ball to fly.
Really the only difference this makes to me personally is that if I weren't already as deep into my current build project, if I were starting from scratch today, I'd build something different. I passed up a lot of different airplanes to pick something that fell within LSA parameters circa 2016.
Baked Potato
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Do you have any knowledge of existing RV-12s (or any other LSA for that matter) increasing the gross takeoff weight due to MOSAIC? From what I've been told the limit on a lot of these is a 'paper' limit and the actual capability of the aircraft is a bit more substantial.
billsgs126
Line Up and Wait
Knowing of EABs limited to 1320 gross in order to be flyable by a SP holder, could they be re-phase-tested to a higher gross so long as they are under 59kn clean?
mandm
Avionics Upgrade
Is this just for medical purposes, the pilot, vs the airplane itself ? Certified is still certified, LSA is LSA?
Dana
Final Approach
Yes, and I suspect there will be a lot of that.
Yes. But LSA is a lot wider now.
aterry1067
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Kenny Phillips
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I do know that the Vashon Ranger will go to 1500 lbs, as that was their design weight, per Vashon.
Baked Potato
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See, this is great! Another 180 lbs will get you quite far indeed.
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"Paper limit" has been the scoop for pretty much all the existing Rotax LSAs. Whether they will update the paper remains to be seen.
DaleB
Final Approach
RV-12? Dunno, you'd have to ask Van's. Others? No doubt. Cue the Carbon Cub LSA magically having some engine restrictions removed and gross weight bumped up in 3... 2... 1...
Dana
Final Approach
Not yet, but I'm sure we'll see it soon after the new regs take effect. Quite a few Euro LSAs that are 1320 here are already certified in Europe at a higher weight. And quite a few E-ABs with 1320# on the paperwork despite a higher (in some cases significantly higher) design weight.
The way it was, only the manufacturer/builder could change the gross weight after the plane was issued AWC. It required completing phase testing per a major alteration. I haven't read if MOSAIC changed this, but I doubt it.
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I think it's actually in the operating limitations for each EAB. I don't think major changes are usually limited to the original builder.
I like this part:
"This rule eliminates the current requirement in § 45.23(b) to mark repainted or newly manufactured light-sport category aircraft with ‘light-sport.’ Light-sport categoryaircraft owners would not have to remove existing marks. Instead, aircraft owners would be allowed to remove the marks any time after the effective date of this provision"
"This rule eliminates the current requirement in § 45.23(b) to mark repainted or newly manufactured light-sport category aircraft with ‘light-sport.’ Light-sport categoryaircraft owners would not have to remove existing marks. Instead, aircraft owners would be allowed to remove the marks any time after the effective date of this provision"
You are correct, major alterations are not limited to the original builder, but are spelled out in the operating limitations. I asked a DAR several years ago about this because I wanted to lower the gross weight to fit lsa, but DAR said only the manufacturer/builder could do that. Maybe he was wrong, but I remember clearly what he said.
I am highly interested in reading about this. Trying to scan through the 100s of pages. Please help me narrow down what page this is on.
billsgs126
Line Up and Wait
EAB = Experimental Amateur Built
billsgs126
Line Up and Wait
As I understand it, under the old rules, an aircraft once certified with a gross weight over 1320 pounds on wheels was forever ineligible as a LSA. (Seaplanes had a higher but equally set-in-stone gross weight.)
RangeRider
Pre-takeoff checklist
Try pages 461-465.
Vans WBA’s against this, but the FAA did the right thing.
Dana
Final Approach
I think what he meant is that an LSA had to be LSA from day one with the 1320# gross weight set by the original builder. But now that there's no max weight, any owner can raise the weight, log it as a major alteration, and fly off the additional phase 1 test period (usually 5 hours) in a defined test area at the increased weight. This applies to E-AB and (I think) ELSA. For SLSA, the manufacturer has to recertify the plane at the new weight; I don't know how that change gets applied to existing aircraft in the fleet, possibly some form of service bulletin? Or the SLSA owner can recertify his aircraft as ELSA (a paperwork exercise) and make the change on his own.
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For those watching for it, the Mosaic final rule was published in this morning’s Federal Register.
DaleB
Final Approach
Mercifully pared down to 189 pages.
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Um... it's the same amount of text, just three column smaller font like the rest of the Register.
DaleB
Final Approach
Yeah, I figured that out... it is, however, easier to read.
TL;DR: LSA eligible is single engines with no more than four seats and Vs1 59. No top end speed or gross weight limitations.
So how does a plane become certified under LSA or ELSA vs EAB?
I ask because I think I heard in the Vans interview on tube that LSA can be built without worrying about the 51% rule and without concern for amateur built only.
What would the process be like for an RV10 (being built) to be ELSA certified?
Forgive my potentially errant use of abbreviations, thus far I have paid little attention to much of this stuff.
I ask because I think I heard in the Vans interview on tube that LSA can be built without worrying about the 51% rule and without concern for amateur built only.
What would the process be like for an RV10 (being built) to be ELSA certified?
Forgive my potentially errant use of abbreviations, thus far I have paid little attention to much of this stuff.