Mooney or Cardinal?

Discussion in 'Flight Following' started by Rock Berube, Sep 28, 2019.

  1. Bill Jennings

    Bill Jennings Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2005
    Messages:
    10,742
    Location:
    Southeast Tennessee
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    This page intentionally left blank
    I do the same, once at cruise, I rack the seat back and enjoy limo leg room.
     
    Rock Berube likes this.
  2. bnt83

    bnt83 Final Approach PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2012
    Messages:
    8,700
    Location:
    Lincoln NE
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Brian
    Its actually dirt simple and the simplest design Cessna ever made, that doesn't mean cheap to fix when something leaks or cracks.
     
    RyanShort1 likes this.
  3. MBDiagMan

    MBDiagMan En-Route

    Joined:
    May 8, 2011
    Messages:
    3,207
    Location:
    NorthEast Texas
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Doc
    Okay, now I get your point. The parachute doesn’t always save lives either, especially in a crowded area, low altitude. A few years ago in Addison there were no survivors when a Cirrus lost power near the airport. Additionally, how many can afford a Cirrus or late model Mooney? TheOP is not shopping in that price range.
     
  4. MBDiagMan

    MBDiagMan En-Route

    Joined:
    May 8, 2011
    Messages:
    3,207
    Location:
    NorthEast Texas
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Doc
    The back seat of my Mooney is crazy comfortable. I have read people on Mooney forums that wrote it was the most comfortable seat he ever occupied in or out of an airplane. It probably just fit his dimensions well, but it is indeed a very comfortable seat. For me my front seats are really comfortable too, but the foam was replaced just before I got it.
     
    mwagg737 likes this.
  5. Clip4

    Clip4 En-Route

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2013
    Messages:
    4,932
    Location:
    A Rubber Room
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Cli4ord
    I have neither a walker or wheelchair, nor issue getting in or out of a Mooney. The issue is the seat sitting low to the floor and the strain placed on knee joints.
     
    hindsight2020 likes this.
  6. Rock Berube

    Rock Berube Filing Flight Plan

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2019
    Messages:
    21
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Alpineman
    The one Im looking at has the Johnston bar so no electronics to go bad. I've been reading a lot of great things with this system. Also joined mooneyspace.com a great site with a lot of info.
     
  7. hindsight2020

    hindsight2020 En-Route

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2010
    Messages:
    4,297
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    hindsight2020
    My former squadronmate totaled one on taxi out (F with the Johnson bar). The nose truss failed (crappy metallurgy, the FAA concluded) and the entire assembly collapsed. The J bar weld failed in place, so I guess it's true what they say you can use that thing as a weapon lol.

    At any rate, all that to say you shouldn't discount the ones with the electric gear, I'd probably prefer those, but I see the more insufferable mooney cult members have made it to the thread and already making things extra antagonistic, so I'm out of this one. Good luck to you.
     
  8. steingar

    steingar Taxi to Parking

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2007
    Messages:
    26,132
    Location:
    Land of Savages
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    steingar
    Mine has the J bar as well. Indeed, that was a required feature of any Mooney I bought. J bar Mooneys are among the very small coterie of airplanes with no backup gear extension mechanism. Nothing to fix and nothing to break. Just get good at swinging the bar. In my case, the swing was easy, though locking it to the floor did take a bit to learn.
     
  9. Heftiger

    Heftiger Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2013
    Messages:
    288
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Heftiger
    [​IMG]

    He’s a good illustration for room. This is an M20K I think.
    Both guys are of slender build.
    Notice how their bodies angled a bit to try and reduce their shoulder to shoulder width. They’re still to touching shoulders.
     
  10. N1120A

    N1120A Line Up and Wait

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2018
    Messages:
    802
    Location:
    AG5B MYF
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    N1120A
    Electric gear are fine. The Mooney emergency gear extension is excellent and the gear still fool proof.

    The guy on the left is not particularly slender and goes on about how he likes to lift weights. The guy on the right is a pretty stocky guy.

    The issue there is the guy on the left is a CFI and set up to take control quickly, with no stagger. You'd have that issue in basically anything.
     
    flyingcheesehead likes this.
  11. steingar

    steingar Taxi to Parking

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2007
    Messages:
    26,132
    Location:
    Land of Savages
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    steingar
    This is nutzycookoo simple. The OP can go sit in a Mooney. If he thinks it's that cramped he can go buy his Cessna. Only the OP will know if it fits him or not. What strangers say on the internet doesn't matter even in the slightest.
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2019
  12. hindsight2020

    hindsight2020 En-Route

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2010
    Messages:
    4,297
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    hindsight2020
    LOL he would say that. Aviation 101 is a twig. That bloggin' -----h ain't no lifter bruh. :D
     
  13. NordicDave

    NordicDave Cleared for Takeoff

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2015
    Messages:
    1,062
    Location:
    San Jose
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    NordicDave
    My only experience in a Mooney required both front seats to staggered fore & aft to keep from rubbing shoulders for two FAA spec people, let along anyone who's heavy.

    The Mooney cabin is narrower than a 172, and a cardinal is wider than a 182 with less headroom than the 182 due to the carry through high wing spar.
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2019
  14. Rock Berube

    Rock Berube Filing Flight Plan

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2019
    Messages:
    21
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Alpineman
    Screen Shot 2019-09-30 at 1.46.33 PM.png

    Doesn't look to bad for space, Yes tighter then a C177 but very doable.
     
    Heftiger likes this.
  15. Heftiger

    Heftiger Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2013
    Messages:
    288
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Heftiger
    If he doesn’t think he’s “slender” I’d hate to see how he’d describe me.
     
    hindsight2020 likes this.
  16. hindsight2020

    hindsight2020 En-Route

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2010
    Messages:
    4,297
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    hindsight2020
    LOL I know that guy. OG/CC at my pilot training base when I was a lowly butter bar going through UPT. Been flying for Southwest now for a decade or so. Small world, this aviation shtick.
     
    Rock Berube likes this.
  17. flyingcheesehead

    flyingcheesehead Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2005
    Messages:
    22,915
    Location:
    UQACY, WI
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    iMooniac
    A) Mooney doesn't make the engine
    B) Cirrus uses the exact same engine.

    Try again.
     
    N1120A likes this.
  18. MooneyDriver78

    MooneyDriver78 En-Route

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2013
    Messages:
    2,506
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Tom
    There was a brand new Acclaim that crashed a couple of years when on its way to sun&fun, it ended up burning, but the pilot got out, engine failure for some unknown reason.
    N608MR, NTSB investigation was inconclusive.

    Tom
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2019
  19. Adam Weiss

    Adam Weiss Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2017
    Messages:
    175
    Location:
    KLXT
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    kcmopilot
    I debated Mooney vs Cardinal vs Bonanza for a long time.
    Really honed in on the M20-E.
    Finally bought an RV-9A.
    For speed, efficiency, and cost of ownership, you can’t beat it.
    150kts on 8gph.
    Great avionics at a fraction of certified cost.
    Fixed gear, relatively lower OH cost.
    Cheap annuals.
    $1100 insurance first year...only going down from here.
    I’m super happy with my decision.
    If you’re worried about experimental, don’t be.
     
  20. steingar

    steingar Taxi to Parking

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2007
    Messages:
    26,132
    Location:
    Land of Savages
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    steingar
    The purchase price for your RV was likely many AMUs more than mine for my Mooney. Want to do a week long trip with your SO? Good luck, those things don't carry much. The RV9 might be an OK IFR platform, I haven't flown in one so I don't know. I wouldn't want to fly and fly a 6 or a 7 IFR.

    What some RV fanboys will never understand ever is not every airplane fits the mission for every pilot. My Mooney won't work for lots of folks either, they're all trade offs.
     
    MBDiagMan likes this.
  21. Rcmutz

    Rcmutz Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2015
    Messages:
    447
    Location:
    Columbus, OH
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    rcmutz
    When we were looking, my wife and I sat in a Mooney. I had flown one with a friend and didn’t think it too bad. I ask the wife what she thought. Her response... NO Mooney!

    Happy wife, happy life, and more flying!

    Look at all the planes you want. Buy the one the wife likes, or be prepared to fly by yourself a lot!
     
    BigBadLou likes this.
  22. Adam Weiss

    Adam Weiss Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2017
    Messages:
    175
    Location:
    KLXT
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    kcmopilot
    I assume if anyone is looking at a short-body Mooney, they’re really looking at a 2-seater.
    Anyway, for my mission: 2 people, fast + baggage, this was the best option.
    I got my IR in it. Pretty good for IFR.
    Can carry 100lbs of baggage. How much more do you need for a week?
    Not a fan boy.
    Owned a Beech in the past.
    The RV just checks a lot of boxes.
     
  23. MBDiagMan

    MBDiagMan En-Route

    Joined:
    May 8, 2011
    Messages:
    3,207
    Location:
    NorthEast Texas
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Doc
    I had the opposite experience when I sat with her in the first Mooney I bought(before I bought it by the way.) She said “this isn’t cramped!” She had been hearing all the naysayer stories too.

    If someone sits in a plane and doesn’t like it for whatever reason, that’s one thing. It’s when they have never been in one but then tell you how bad it is which seems weird to me.

    I think that part of it is that you are sitting on the floor( and there’s a good reason for that) which is a different feeling and some people have to get used to it after their Cessna/ Beech/Piper.). It is human nature to resist change.

    Different strokes for different folks.
     
    flyingcheesehead and RyanShort1 like this.
  24. UngaWunga

    UngaWunga Cleared for Takeoff

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2014
    Messages:
    1,443
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    UngaWunga
    I have the same issue in my 172, as most small planes do, if both are set up to reach the controls. And I'm tall/thin.
     
  25. steingar

    steingar Taxi to Parking

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2007
    Messages:
    26,132
    Location:
    Land of Savages
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    steingar
    When I first got the Mooney Mrs. Steingar didn't like it one bit. She wanted the old airplane back. Then I got us back from DC in two hours. After that she liked the Mooney just fine. She liked it even better when we did a day trip to Ann Arbor.

    She took one look at an RV and said no way. Didn't like the canopy one bit. I think we Buckeyes see eye to eye on this.
     
    Rock Berube likes this.
  26. zaitcev

    zaitcev En-Route

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2010
    Messages:
    3,154
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Pete Zaitcev
    And when the same exact engine fails, you know what happens.
     
    N1120A likes this.
  27. Rcmutz

    Rcmutz Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2015
    Messages:
    447
    Location:
    Columbus, OH
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    rcmutz
    I hope you were up north for a game, and not just to visit! Eeeewwwwww! LOL.
     
  28. steingar

    steingar Taxi to Parking

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2007
    Messages:
    26,132
    Location:
    Land of Savages
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    steingar
    We went up to see one of Mrs. Steingar's last remaining relatives. I actually like Ann Arbor, I think its a pretty neat tony little town. My last two overnight trips were to Michigan. One was to 6Y9, the first time I've been able to make it up there in years. By Odin I had a great time! The other was to see one of Mrs. Steingar's friends who lives just west of Saginaw. Saw the bay of Bay City from the air. We stayed at a little Alpaca farm with four dogs (the Swiss Mountain dog decided I was a great chew toy. Fun!), alpacas, goats, sheep, and even a cockatoo and a parrot. I'd be happy to make that tip again.

    The funny thing about Michigan is it seems to be the land of broken fuel pumps. The pump was busted at my desired 6Y9 fuel stop, and at the airport I wound up stopping at. It was busted in Alma as well, where I landed for the second trip. Michiganas seem to have a thing against fuel pumps.
     
  29. Crashnburn

    Crashnburn Line Up and Wait

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2018
    Messages:
    553
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Crashnburn
    I take it your legs are cramped because it looks like a lot of your height is in your legs
     
  30. BigBadLou

    BigBadLou Final Approach

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2014
    Messages:
    5,153
    Location:
    TX - the friendliest state
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Lou
    ^^^^ THIS

    Have your wife sit in the airplanes you are considering. You sit in there too. You both do. Get in and out multiple times. Emulate that you forgot to disconnect the towbar or pull the chocks. Guess which one she will choose quickly. :)

    I give this same advice to all pilots who cannot decide on airplane A vs B. Just sit in them with the target audience.
     
  31. JohnAJohnson

    JohnAJohnson Cleared for Takeoff

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2006
    Messages:
    1,194
    Location:
    Gulf Shores, AL
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    JohnAJohnson
    A Corvette is faster and a better handling car than a Mercedes sedan, but which would you prefer on long trips?
     
  32. Rock Berube

    Rock Berube Filing Flight Plan

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2019
    Messages:
    21
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Alpineman
    I agree they are a little fun to get in and out of.
    Been in a couple of Moony's M20F and the C models, with a proper walk around there shouldn't be any need in forgetting towbar, Chocks, tie downs etc. So not to worried about that. Good advice from a old pilot was, after my walk around and just prior to getting into the plane to walk in front of the plane 10-15 ft and look around for things like that may have been forgotten, it happens.

    Appreciate all the replies and advice. Great forum.
     
  33. RyanShort1

    RyanShort1 En-Route

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2010
    Messages:
    3,002
    Location:
    Dallas, Texas
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    RyanShort1
    Y’all are wimps. Need to start regularly getting in and out of the front seat of a Cub and stay limber and good at dancing with your feet.
    Real airplanes, and all that, you know...
     
  34. Rock Berube

    Rock Berube Filing Flight Plan

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2019
    Messages:
    21
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Alpineman
    :lol:
     
  35. MBDiagMan

    MBDiagMan En-Route

    Joined:
    May 8, 2011
    Messages:
    3,207
    Location:
    NorthEast Texas
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Doc
    Just curious. Have you ever sat with your passenger in BOTH a 177 AND an M20? I haven’t but I have plenty of time in both M20 C and F as well as a 172. Is a 177 any larger than a 172?

    Your statement is an oranges to apples comparison. A Corvette is a two passenger vehicle while a sedan of any make is four or more.
     
  36. MooneyDriver78

    MooneyDriver78 En-Route

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2013
    Messages:
    2,506
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Tom
    I think he’s referring to the low seating position.


    Tom
     
  37. MBDiagMan

    MBDiagMan En-Route

    Joined:
    May 8, 2011
    Messages:
    3,207
    Location:
    NorthEast Texas
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Doc
    Maybe it’s just me, but I don’t understand why the low seating position has anything to do with comfort. It allows the fuselage to not be as tall, decreasing frontal area. This decreases drag and makes it faster and more fuel efficient. Maybe for some reason it’s harder for some people to get used to, but it’s just a matter of whether or not your knees are bent, I personally like stretching my legs out.

    On the flip side, I’ve never liked the cockpit of a 172 that I assume is much like a 177. The panel seems way forward, kind of in a short tunnel. For me the Mooney panel has better ergonomics.

    All this said, it is a matter of personal preference and what you are used to or willing to get used to.

    Again, different strokes for different folks. The OP should give a fair comparison to both and more than just crawling in and sitting for 60 seconds.
     
    david.h likes this.
  38. Mooney Fan

    Mooney Fan Line Up and Wait

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2017
    Messages:
    819
    Location:
    Indian Mound, TN
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Mooney Fan
    Mooney

    But I'm biased

    -VySky
     
    david.h likes this.
  39. BigBadLou

    BigBadLou Final Approach

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2014
    Messages:
    5,153
    Location:
    TX - the friendliest state
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Lou
    Yeah, if you manage to explain to my wife why she needs to get into a transportation device like a contortionist, I'll buy you a beer. :D
     
  40. GaryV

    GaryV Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2016
    Messages:
    305
    Location:
    South of Houston
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    GaryV
    Having the wife sit in the plane with you before you settle on a model is mandatory if you’re planning on taking trips with her and want her to be happy.

    I like everything I’ve heard about a Mooney so my wife and I tried sitting in several before we gave up on them. There is more leg room in each of the ones I sat in than anything else I tried.

    We just couldn’t sit side by side in the models I tried because I’m large. She also said that she likes the view out of a high wing better than the view from the mooney. She actually settled on a 210 after we got a ride in one but I couldn’t get insurance on a 210 at the time so we ended up with the Cardinal RG. It’s turned out to be a great fit for how we use the plane.

    You know Cardinals so sit in some Mooneys. If they fill good try to get a ride. There is probably someone near you with the model of Mooney you’re interested in that would take you for $100 hamburger if you buy the fuel.

    After I found a model I liked I’d want my wife’s take before signing on the bottom line. That’s worked out well for me. My wife likes to travel in the plane. She’s the one that said I should get a plane before we bought the 172 we started with and is the one that decided it was time to upgrade to a faster plane before we got the RG.

    Good luck.

    gary
     
    Stephen Poole likes this.