Mooney Crash

[Michael]

I recived this via email froma member of our mooney group. Since it looks like a controll failure I thought i would share it. Its worth looking into if you own an older mooney.

I have a bit of sad news to report myself; my 1965 M20C, N5577Q, was in an accident last week. Some of you may remember this as Drew Stidger's plane, he was the previous owner and had it for a long time. I want to tell my fellow Mooney owners about the accident because it involved a mechanical problem that could affect any vintage Mooney.
I had the airplane in for maintenance at Auburn last Tuesday, Sept. 19th, (new tire, oil change,and check of charging system). When I did the run up and preflight on Wednesday the 20th everything seemed normal. I always do a complete "box" to make sure the controls are free and working. When I taxied onto the runway and applied full power she accelerated normally and I held a little forward pressure on the yoke to keep her on the ground until reaching rotation speed. But then prior to reaching rotation, she lifted off and pitched up abruptly and went nose up, almost vertical; it was then when I pushed the yoke forward all the way to the panel that I realized there was no longer a connection between the yoke and the elevators! I am guessing she had popped up to 30-50 feet above the runway. All I could do was try to get the power pulled and nose down with no elevator control. I kept the wings level and used the rudder to stay over the runway. Even as I pulled the power back, she remained nose high and even though I tried adding just a little power to slow the descent, she pancaked down really hard. The gear was still down for takeoff and collapsed on the runway. It all happened in seconds.
My nose hit the control wheel and my back got wrenched a bit, but I was walking around until the CHP para medics put me on the back board and took me by helicopter to the hospital. The CHP helicopter team is based at Auburn and was great by the way, their pilots wanted to give first priority to a fellow pilot, the helicopter was there in like 3 minutes and ready to go, and the ride was free. I checked out fine and walked out of the hospital with a sore back and bloodied nose.
I made all the notifications and the NTSB examined the plane. They found that the elevator control rod had broken at the point where the ball joint and bearing meet. I think they will be looking to add an inspection of the rod and ball since they told me this had not happened in a Mooney according to the records.
As you know, we pilots do not like the black eye that accidents give all of us in aviation, so I have downplayed the seriousness of the incident to my family and friends, but you and I know I dodged a major bullet. I don't think I could have done much differently, but a loss of control close to the ground is not an experience I would encourage anyone to try.
Please let the other Mooney guys know I am fine and expect to be back in the air soon. But also, I thank heaven I was in 77Q, she os one tough bird and built Mooney tough. I have flown her more than 200 hours in the past 15 months or so. I am in better shape than she is.

 

[Dave Krall CFII]

You dodged the big one for sure Michael, glad you had a strong bird around you when it went down around you, and even more glad you're doing well. Any video?!?

 

[Michael]

It wasnt me Dave. But thanks
No video I am aware of. unless Bob was there.

 

[AdamZ]

Wow Michael, That is scary. I suspect he is lucky it happened where it did. Do yourself a favor and have that control arm inspected on your M20

 

[SkyHog]

Wow.

Almost as scary as taking off with Autopilot engaged and fighting the controls the entire way around the pattern, eh?

 

[Earthroamer]

That is horrible. I will say that it almost happened to me in the C421. It just came out of Maintence. The Mechanic that signed it off (but didnt actualy work on the flight controls) was in the right seat and we were going to go up and check everything. I did the normal yoke movements (up mine, up yours, pull back, etc) and the yoke fell in my lap. The mechanic turned white.....

 

[flyifrvfr]

Any video? The guy was just relaying how a pilot escaped death by pure luck and you want video!

 

[Michael]

Wow.

Almost as scary as taking off with Autopilot engaged and fighting the controls the entire way around the pattern, eh?

I never told anyone about that nick.....um....looks like you have some splainin to do.

 

[jesse]

Any video? The guy was just relaying how a pilot escaped death by pure luck and you want video!

Video is cool. So are explosions. Way I figure if something bad is going to happen I'd like to see it (up to a point). That way I know it was real, I won't ever forget it, and I'll surely be more apt to respect what caused it.

 

[flyifrvfr]

Video is cool. So are explosions. Way I figure if something bad is going to happen I'd like to see it (up to a point). That way I know it was real, I won't ever forget it, and I'll surely be more apt to respect what caused it.

Explosions are cool? Accidents are cool? You need video to know it was real as opposed to....made up? This accident was unfortunate, and the pilot was lucky to survive. Sean Tucker bailed out of his Pitts because of loss of elevator control as well. Call the pilot up and ask him if he thought his accident was cool. I have been hit head on while riding a motorcycle. While driving my tractor trailer I was hit broadside by an ederly man who ran a redlight while going 65MPH. He died and it wasn't cool. I have fallen two stories and am lucky to be alive despite all these accidents, and not one of them was cool.

 

[SCCutler]

I am gonna go out on a limb, here.

I think young Jesse is suggesting that video of this event, were it made available for viewing, might well be educational to other pilots and, because we know that the pilot in question was not killed or maimed, the desire to see it is in no way macabre.

And explosions are cool, as long as no one's in 'em. I have a video of a building being imploded. It is really cool.

 

[HPNFlyGirl]

I am gonna go out on a limb, here.

I think young Jesse is suggesting that video of this event, were it made available for viewing, might well be educational to other pilots and, because we know that the pilot in question was not killed or maimed, the desire to see it is in no way macabre.

And explosions are cool, as long as no one's in 'em. I have a video of a building being imploded. It is really cool.

Spike...hes talking about my friends house as it exploded last week. Luckly they heard the 1st explosion and made it out safely the 2nd explosion is what brought the house down. If they had not heard the 1st explosion they would have been in the house...and thier bedroom was over the garage so they would have died for sure. Everyone thought it was her propane tanks but it was nautral gas as her propane tanks were unscathed.

 

[flyifrvfr]

I am gonna go out on a limb, here.

I think young Jesse is suggesting that video of this event, were it made available for viewing, might well be educational to other pilots and, because we know that the pilot in question was not killed or maimed, the desire to see it is in no way macabre.

And explosions are cool, as long as no one's in 'em. I have a video of a building being imploded. It is really cool.

The world trade centers both exploded and imploded. The towers were hit by two different airplanes and exploded. Later the buildings collapsed and all this was caught on video. was any of this cool? I know a man who had a vehicle accident trapping him inside. The car exploded almost killing him. He suffered third degree burns over 80 percent of his body; he is disfigured for life. Ask him if that was cool.

Finally, there is nothing to learn from watching an airplane pitch up having lost elevator control. The push pull rod failed and was concealed in the fuselage. Sean Tucker bailed out of his airplane after losing elevator control. The difference is Sean used the trim to climb high enough to bail out, the Mooney pilot was stuck and along for the ride. Maybe cool is relative, but I know what it is like not knowing whether you are going to live, or die. It aint cool, its down right scary.

This is the link to the Mooney crash.
http://ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20060923X01380&key=1

 

[flyingcheesehead]

The world trade centers both exploded and imploded. The towers were hit by two different airplanes and exploded. Later the buildings collapsed and all this was caught on video. was any of this cool?

Apparently you didn't bother to actually read Spike's post (emphasis mine):

And explosions are cool, as long as no one's in 'em.

Finally, there is nothing to learn from watching an airplane pitch up having lost elevator control. The push pull rod failed and was concealed in the fuselage.

I disagree. There's plenty to learn. What pitch attitude really resulted? How quickly did the pitch up happen? Could a different throttle or trim response have helped, or did it happen too quickly for any action to have an effect? You don't have to see the broken part to learn something.

Maybe cool is relative, but I know what it is like not knowing whether you are going to live, or die.

So do I. But I sure wish I had a video of my accident happening for further analysis. Plus, ya know what... It'd be kinda cool.

 

[flyifrvfr]

I won't monday morning quarter back the actions the pilot took. He lived, so his actions were the correct actions at the time. This is what really matters, not how the airplane looked while pitching up towards a stall. If you need a video to remind you of what approaching a stall, or a stall looks like, get more training.

I read Spike's post just fine, so apparently you can't tell what is apparent. Explosions don't pick or choose when someone is inside when an explosion occurs. So no, an explosion isn't cool. Having the luck to escape one unharmed when it does occur is priceless.

 

[gkainz]

The military tends to think (or at least used to) that disaster movies tend to be sobering training videos. Shipboard firefighting training always opened with the film from the USS Forrestal fire. One training film depicted a C-2 taking a cat shot and a large generator on a cargo pallet coming loose, causing extreme aft CG and subsequent crash. Numerous other videos for flight and flight deck safety showing, cold cat shots and ejections, arresting gear wire breaks and resulting ejections, sailors injured and killed by arresting gear wires, getting sucked down jet intakes, on and on... I have to agree that they were effective training tools and they are still vivid memories for me today.

 

[jkaduk]

The military tends to think (or at least used to) that disaster movies tend to be sobering training videos.

How many of us saw "Death on the Highways" or some such film in drivers ed? I know I sure did.

 

[Bill]

Shipboard firefighting training always opened with the film from the USS Forrestal fire.

Yup, we watched that one many times. After the Forrestfire, didn't the Navy pretty much re-write the book with respect to shipboard firefighting techniques?

 

[Skip Miller]

He lived, so his actions were the correct actions at the time.

(emphasis above is mine)

No. Yes, he survived, for which I (and he, no doubt) are thankful. But you do not know if other actions would also result in him surviving. That is just the way he did it, and with a good outcome.

I do think it is worth studying the accident (including seeing the video) to see if there are other lessons to be learned about ways (plural!) to survive situations like this.

-Skip

 

[Ghery]

Yup, we watched that one many times. After the Forrestfire, didn't the Navy pretty much re-write the book with respect to shipboard firefighting techniques?

Not to mention get serious about shipboard EMC. Many lessons learned from that mess.

 

[jesse]

flyifrvfr[/u]]
Accidents are cool?

Seems to me you are pulling words that I did not say

You need video to know it was real as opposed to....made up?

Sometimes yes. People tend to lie. Not only do people tend to lie it's often pretty hard to remember exactly what happend in an event. A video allows for an accident to be reviewed over and over again at any speed.

This accident was unfortunate, and the pilot was lucky to survive. Sean Tucker bailed out of his Pitts because of loss of elevator control as well. Call the pilot up and ask him if he thought his accident was cool.

Hmm. Did I say accidents were cool?

I have been hit head on while riding a motorcycle.

How terrible.

While driving my tractor trailer I was hit broadside by an ederly man who ran a redlight while going 65MPH. He died and it wasn't cool. I have fallen two stories and am lucky to be alive despite all these accidents, and not one of them was cool.

How terrible. Did I say accidents were cool?

How about you read what I wrote instead of just assuming stuff, instead of just making crap up?

I like to know exactly what happend. I want to know what it looks like when that happens. I want to know why it happend. And most importantly I want to know how to prevent it from happening.

Nothing will imprint something in your mind better than seeing the actual event or the result of such.

If you can't watch an accident and learn from it and prefer to pretend like it didn't happen. That's up to you.

Take a look at the World Trade Centers for example. How often are these videos played? Everytime I see the video of the towers crashing it helps me remember what happend and how terrible it is. I'm glad the buildings falling were captured on video. Because it helps all of us realize how serious it actually was.

Just because I say that I want to see a video of the accident does not mean that I wanted the accident to happen. Some people aren't wired like me. I want to know as much as I can about everything. I don't sit and watch TV all day. Every minute of my day is spent learning something or improving myself. I will be better tomorrow then yesterday. If you don't want to see real life that's fine. I like to see it.

 

[flyifrvfr]

One question. If videos of accidents are great for learning, and the NTSB investigates accidents to determine the cause and thus prevent future similar accidents. Why doesn't the NTSB publish video links to accidents as they do the written text when and if the accidents are captured on video? Accident videos tend to end up on morbid websites like Ogrish!

One other way to handle a situation like that is to try to use the trim to control the aircraft. Again, I won't Monday morning quarter back the pilot because his actions worked.n

 

[infotango]

Actually the NTSB DOES provide videos of accidents.
Sometimes they use them to present data from FDR's in a visual format, and in traffic accidents they use them to demonstrate what exactly happened.

I've always found them to be very informative. They can usually be found in the "exhibits" section of the NTSB site.

 

[flyifrvfr]

Video is cool. So are explosions. Way I figure if something bad is going to happen I'd like to see it (up to a point). That way I know it was real, I won't ever forget it, and I'll surely be more apt to respect what caused it.

So is it safe to say that you ASSume an accident that is not captured on video did not really happen. You were born, so there must be video of you coming into this world. You say explosions are cool! do you mean accidental explosions, or those that are created intentionally? Because by the statement you made above, one could summize you also feel accidents are cool and should be videoed for your enjoyment.

 

[jesse]

So is it safe to say that you ASSume an accident that is not captured on video did not really happen.

Yeah. Because that is exactly what I said

 

[Everskyward]

How many of us saw "Death on the Highways" or some such film in drivers ed? I know I sure did.

I did. But I remember the quality of the pictures being so bad that you couldn't really see anything.

And did it scare me out of doing stupid things in a car? No.

 

[flyifrvfr]

Yeah. Because that is exactly what I said

Originally Posted by jangell
Video is cool. So are explosions. Way I figure if something bad is going to happen I'd like to see it (up to a point). That way I know it was real, I won't ever forget it, and I'll surely be more apt to respect what caused it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by flyifrvfr
So is it safe to say that you ASSume an accident that is not captured on video did not really happen


My statement to you was a conclusion based on the above highlighted text. Paraphrased yes, not verbatum.

 

[jesse]

Originally Posted by jangell
Video is cool. So are explosions. Way I figure if something bad is going to happen I'd like to see it (up to a point). That way I know it was real, I won't ever forget it, and I'll surely be more apt to respect what caused it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by flyifrvfr
So is it safe to say that you ASSume an accident that is not captured on video did not really happen

My statement to you was a conclusion based on the above highlighted text. Paraphrased yes, not verbatum.

Point proven. No comment necessary.

 

[flyifrvfr]

Originally Posted by jangell
Video is cool. So are explosions. Way I figure if something bad is going to happen I'd like to see it (up to a point). That way I know it was real, I won't ever forget it, and I'll surely be more apt to respect what caused it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by flyifrvfr
So is it safe to say that you ASSume an accident that is not captured on video did not really happen



Point proven. No comment necessary.

Yes, I did prove my point. It is in bold text that reads " That way I know it was real."

Here is some more stuff for you that is REAL, even though it was not caught on tape.

 

[jesse]

Here is some more stuff for you that is REAL, even though it was not caught on tape.
http://www.ogrish.com/archives/2004/july/OGRISH-dot-com-plane_crash1.jpg

http://www.ogrish.com/archives/2004/july/OGRISH-dot-com-plane_crash2.jpg

http://www.ogrish.com/archives/2004/july/OGRISH-dot-com-plane_crash3.jpg

http://www.ogrish.com/archives/2004/july/OGRISH-dot-com-plane_crash4.jpg

http://www.ogrish.com/archives/2004/july/OGRISH-dot-com-plane_crash5.jpg

http://www.ogrish.com/archives/2004/july/OGRISH-dot-com-plane_crash6.jpg

Funny how the guy that jumped all over me about saying how video can be a good thing happens to know exactly where to find grusome material.

I'm done with this thread. No reason to keep bickering when the other guy just makes crap up.

 

[flyifrvfr]

Funny how the guy that jumped all over me about saying how video can be a good thing happens to know exactly where to find grusome material.

I'm done with this thread. No reason to keep bickering when the other guy just makes crap up.

I haven't made crap up. I highlighted your text so there is no question as to what you have said. Yes, I know exactly where to find grusome material and it is exactly where you can go for your morbid curiousity. Sad part is the pictures that are posted is someone's family. Did you learn anything from seeing the photos. They are real BTW, run the N Number and you can read the NTSB report.

 

[wsuffa]

OK, you two. Most of us here don't care who said what.

Knock it off or take it to PM.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Originally Posted by jangell
Video is cool. So are explosions. Way I figure if something bad is going to happen I'd like to see it (up to a point). That way I know it was real, I won't ever forget it, and I'll surely be more apt to respect what caused it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by flyifrvfr
So is it safe to say that you ASSume an accident that is not captured on video did not really happen

Victor,

It's one thing to hear or read about an accident, it's entirely another to see it. That's what makes it "real" to someone who wasn't there for it. Seeing is believing, ya know. Jesse's not saying that anybody is faking it. Video and pictures is what makes it real to an individual person and helps them to understand it.

For instance, my company has had 7 rollovers since June and several other serious accidents as well. It's one thing for me to hear about an accident; it's entirely another when I see the trucks arriving back at the yard on a flatbed. A friend of mine was killed in late July in one of the rollovers and it was hard to truly believe until I saw his twisted truck covered with a tarp. I didn't want to see inside the truck. I heard there's a lot of blood , but it's more that I don't want or need to see that level of detail. I just had to see the truck itself. That made it real *to me* and helped me deal with it.

Human comprehension is a funny thing.

 

[Earthroamer]

So is it safe to say that you ASSume an accident that is not captured on video did not really happen.

Don't start calling names. You will get the moderators on here. Actually, with your captials in the above post, they should warn you about personal attacks. Just keep in mind, aviation is a small world. What ever point you are trying to make, you are flogging a dead horse. However, just to make sure you are understanding completely what I am typing: 1. Watch the "ASSuming" comment. 2. Good or bad, you are not getting anywhere with the topic.

 

[flyifrvfr]

Don't start calling names. You will get the moderators on here. Actually, with your captials in the above post, they should warn you about personal attacks. Just keep in mind, aviation is a small world. What ever point you are trying to make, you are flogging a dead horse. However, just to make sure you are understanding completely what I am typing: 1. Watch the "ASSuming" comment. 2. Good or bad, you are not getting anywhere with the topic.

1. I believe your post is very condescending! 2. I really don't give a rats A About what you think. 3. I replied the same way I received the post, which is to say Jangel's post contained the word ASSume. So don't scold me and spare him. 4. I am glad you told me aviation is a small world; I never would have guessd it.

 

[TangoWhiskey]

1. I believe your post is very condescending! 2. I really don't give a rats A About what you think. 3. I replied the same way I received the post, which is to say Jangel's post contained the word ASSume. So don't scold me and spare him. 4. I am glad you told me aviation is a small world; I never would have guessd it.

I think I need a video of Vic typing this post, or else I won't believe he did it.

 

[poadeleted20]

Yo -- everyone -- KNOCK IT OFF. If you haven't anything to contribute except to criticize someone else, put it in your pocket. Now.

 

[flyifrvfr]

I think I need a video of Vic typing this post, or else I won't believe he did it.

Now this one made me laugh...Awesome!