Mode C ATC authorized deviation

Discussion in 'Change to my Frequency...' started by Dana, Dec 4, 2018.

  1. Dana

    Dana Line Up and Wait

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    If I want to fly an aircraft without a transponder (or soon, without ADSB out) in airspace that requires it according to 91.215(b)(2) (the "mode C veil"), 91.215(d)(3) says, "For operation of an aircraft that is not equipped with a transponder, the request must be made at least one hour before the proposed operation." I presume that means a phone call? But just who do I call, and where do I find the number? Has anybody here done that, and how likely is it they would approve it? Only in good VFR weather, of course.

    For example, New York. I live in CT. Flying an open cockpit biplane, it's not likely I'll ever want to actually fly in the Class B or C airspace, but I may well want to cut close around it (within 30NM) or under the 3000' floor of the outer ring while going somewhere, or fly over our cabin which is one mile inside the 30NM ring, or even fly the Hudson River corridor like I used to do years ago in my T-Craft.
     
  2. flyingron

    flyingron Touchdown! Greaser!

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    You call the ATC facility responsible for the airspace (the TRACON). I've done it countless times at IAD (without needing to wait an hour in advance). I've done it even after 9/11 and I did it once when the primary radar was also out (which made me literally invisible, let alone just missing the altitude info). A few weeks later I was up int he tower radar room and glanced at the scope and said "I see the primary radar's back." The controller told me that most people wouldn't have noticed that.
     
  3. Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe

    Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Done it at Detroit DTW class B and Toledo TOL class C with a phone call to the TRACON C approach respectively - got the numbers from the AFD as I recall (I know, the name has changed, but I don't remember the new name). I made a call during normal business hours to make sure I had the right number for weekends.

    Does your ride have an electrical system with an engine driven charging system? If not, ain't no legal need to call - just stay out of the actual B/C. But, a quick call couldn't hurt...
     
  4. texasclouds

    texasclouds Line Up and Wait

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    Rock the wings and enter the pattern??

    Just kidding!
     
  5. Martin Pauly

    Martin Pauly Pre-Flight

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    For finding the facility's phone number, I have often heard to look at the charts supplement (was: AFD), but I haven't been able to find the numbers in there. Can somebody point me at an example?

    I did find a website https://123atc.com/ which looks like a complete listing of TRACONs, Centers and Towers, along with phone numbers for each facility. But I wonder if the FAA has an official publication of this kind of contact info.
     
  6. AggieMike88

    AggieMike88 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Looking at that page and comparing the phone numbers shown for the TRACONs I already have phone numbers for, I don't think the number shown on that page is the correct desk/person. It might be the recruiter, but not the controller you wish to speak with for obtaining a clearance.

    I too would like to know where to look other than the Chart Supplements.
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2019
  7. champ driver

    champ driver Line Up and Wait

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    If your plane is exempt from the transponder Mode C veil rule, because of no electrical system, then you are exempt from the ADSB rule as well. No need to call at all.

    After 911 when I wanted to fly inside my local Mode C veil, I called Flight Service and asked them what the number to call was.
    So I called and told them what I wanted to do and they gave me a code number which I relayed to the local tower as I was taxiing out. Simple in and out for me.
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2019
  8. Huckster79

    Huckster79 Line Up and Wait

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    Yea I called one last week they said said no problem they may just have me do a couple turns so they could ID me positively... that trip got cancelled. But today I needed to traverse a Delta airspace that has TRSA, being not required for D, I did t call ahead, just told approach I was “negative mode c” he did what the class c guy said they would do, had me turn a heading significantly different than I’d been tracking- bam he had me and back to on course.

    If you are going to C I’d say try to avoid a crazy rushed time for em... no clue on B, not been don’t really have a need to...
     
  9. flyingron

    flyingron Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I've worked out of IAD without a transponder both before and after 9/11. All it takes is a phone call at the worst. Sometimes you could work it out on the radio (though I've not tried that since 911). I even managed to do it with the primary radar out which pretty much made me invisible to them. Amusingly, this was about the time Margy was learning to fly so the owner of the flying club wrangled a visit to the tower for us. As I'm standing in the radar room I tell them I see the primary radar is back working. They said most people wouldn't have noticed that.