Missing Cessna 210 - Colorado to Utah

murphey said:
According to FAA records, pilot is from Boulder, last medical was 2006 and no Basic Med. Private only. Plus the registration on the 210 expired April 2017.
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How does one determine who the pilot in command is from FAA records?
 
Clark1961 said:
Read it again after inserting coffee.
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Ok, I will ask the question again, until the plane is recovered, how does one determine who the pilot in command was from FAA records when no flight plan was filed and there is no record of what stops the aircraft made after departure?
 
Clip4 said:
Ok, I will ask the question again, until the plane is recovered, how does one determine who the pilot in command was from FAA records when no flight plan was filed and there is no record of what stops the aircraft made after departure?
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Hardheaded one, aren’t you? Nobody said that the FAA records were used to determine pilot in command.
 
Clip4 said:
How does one determine who the pilot in command is from FAA records?
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Witnesses. Maybe someone saw who climbed into the plane and took off. Someone reported it overdue. They were expecting someone to arrive who didn't get there. They would know who it was. Of course that isn't absolute proof but then neither is what is in a Flight Plan. I could file one right now and put Amelia Earhart as pilot in command.
 
luvflyin said:
Witnesses. Maybe someone saw who climbed into the plane and took off. Someone reported it overdue. They were expecting someone to arrive who didn't get there. They would know who it was. Of course that isn't absolute proof but then neither is what is in a Flight Plan. I could file one right now and put Amelia Earhart as pilot in command.
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Clippers just went bonkers thinking a phrase said one thing when it actually said another. I gave him a hint to slow down and read it again and instead of doing that he stayed stuck on stupid. Can’t help him get out of his own way.
 
Sorry but you two crucifying clip are the ones that are wrong. The post he responded to clearly implies FAA records would be the source. So the accusation that nobody said it is demonstrably false.

murphey said:
According to FAA records, pilot is from Boulder, last medical was 2006 and no Basic Med. Private only. Plus the registration on the 210 expired April 2017.
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He’s not the one that needs more coffee. The explanation that eventually came would have been more appropriate in the first place.
 
Salty said:
Sorry but you two crucifying clip are the ones that are wrong. The post he responded to clearly implies FAA records would be the source. So the accusation that nobody said it is demonstrably false.



He’s not the one that needs more coffee. The explanation that eventually came would have been more appropriate in the first place.
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Nope, it didn’t make that claim at all, salty. All it said was that FAA records indicate no medical. Reading any other way is stupid.
 
Clark1961 said:
Nope, it didn’t make that claim at all, salty. All it said was that FAA records indicate no medical. Reading any other way is stupid.
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That’s not proper grammar parsing, and it’s petty name calling. Congratulations.
 
Salty said:
That’s not proper grammar parsing, and it’s petty name calling. Congratulations.
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There was no name calling. I pointed out that deliberately reading things incorrectly is stupid because it is. If you want to take that personally that is entirely on you. That action would also be stupid.

In other words if you want to stir up some crap I’m happy to point out your foolish behavior. Note that once again I did not call you foolish, I called your behavior foolish.
 
Clark1961 said:
There was no name calling. I pointed out that deliberately reading things incorrectly is stupid because it is. If you want to take that personally that is entirely on you. That action would also be stupid.

In other words if you want to stir up some crap I’m happy to point out your foolish behavior. Note that once again I did not call you foolish, I called your behavior foolish.
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I guess you think that makes your behavior ok. I disagree
 
Salty said:
I guess you think that makes your behavior ok. I disagree
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It is regrettable when one believes that deliberately foolish and stupid behavior shouldn’t identified for what it is.
 
Clark1961 said:
It is regrettable when one believes that deliberately foolish and stupid behavior shouldn’t identified for what it is.
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Yes, think of all the children you’ve saved this morning by identifying this “stupid” behavior. I thank God you were here. Imagine what further carnage would have happened if you’d explained why you thought he was wrong rather than stopping at calling him stupid and providing no useful information as you did.
 
midlifeflyer said:
The lack of belief is in both directions. I've seen many posts here and elsewhere expressing a lack of belief that mountain flying is a different type of flying, requiring, if not completely different knowledge and skills, at least a very different emphasis and application of them.
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What scares me about mountain flying is that I know there is a lot of stuff that I don't even know I don't know. (Hat tip to Donald Rumsfeld.)

Fortunately for me, I'm based in Indiana.
 
MauleSkinner said:
Ok...since you insist...the above is identified as deliberately foolish and stupid behavior.

You're welcome.
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Source considered and identification disregarded as false.
HTH and HAND
 
Salty said:
Yes, think of all the children you’ve saved this morning by identifying this “stupid” behavior. I thank God you were here. Imagine what further carnage would have happened if you’d explained why you thought he was wrong rather than stopping at calling him stupid and providing no useful information as you did.
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Just keep digging, plenty of dirt under your shovel.
 
TRocket said:
Hi John,
For starters, welcome to POA! Interesting first post but nonetheless, welcome!
It is a tough crowd here fore sure so don't take anything personally. I would venture to guess (and could be wrong) that you are on the newer side to aviation. Your posts seem very "by the book" and that is ok! A couple of things, a flight plan does not necessarily equal safety. Flight following = great idea for sure so I agree there but not absolutely necessary. And as for ADS-B, aviation existed for many years before ADS-B. While it is a good tool from what I have seen (which is very limited) there have been millions of hours flown without the need for it, we can't always rely on technology.

You will need thick skin to swim in these waters but I am sure you will be just fine. So loosen up a little and enjoy all POA has to offer!

(Also, a little advice, do not mention AOA indicators and do VERY thorough research before posting any " can I log the time" threads).
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T Rocket Man:
40 years in my friend - and if by book means dealing with ATC flying west over the Rocks —well count me in !! 4700 hours but who’s counting. Owned 7 airPlanes in my time and have no issue rolling up the sleeves with trolls

JM
 
Clark1961 said:
A guy sez he's been flying for 20 some years and you guess that he is on the newer side of aviation? sumting wong here
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Hey C -1961.

20 years here in the Rockies flying — actually 22 - moved here in 1996 but 39 with a ticket !! So just to clarify for the POA crowd and any trolls out there TRYING to hijack a thread - but thanks for looking out !!
JM
 
John M said:
Murph is 100% accurate. Communication and situational/geographical awarenesss is key at all times but paramount when mountain flying !

As for the 210 (N68640) still no sign of it as of 6pm MST Thursday evening. As if it vanished !!

JM
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Where did you get the N# from? I didn’t see it in any of the news reports. Do we know for certain if the registered owner was the pilot?
 
mscard88 said:
:popcorn: Friday Night Fights already? Cool.
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This is what I live for.....:lol::lol:

All of my vfr flight time in Alaska was without a flight plan filed with FSS. All of my IFR flight plans were filed with FSS. Pretty desolate areas in Alaska. Not unusual to see a plane on the ground that probably have bones in them.

VFR flight plans were company flight plans. I only came up missing once and the company knew what leg I was on, plus I had been talking to another pilot before I diverted for weather. Unfortunately my alternate weather went down, and so did my next alternate, then my next alternate, then I was stuck in the air with no place to land.

Even here in the southwest the only VFR flight plan I will file will be with someone on the ground, just to let them know when I expect to be at the destination.

The vfr flight plan jokes are at the expense of the media. The media seems to think that planes that do not file an "official" flight plan will get lost and that means instant death..
 
3393RP said:
Where are all the smartass comments about flight plans that show up on this forum almost every time there is an aviation related story in the media?

...

That flight plans are a target of derision on this forum possibly discourages their use by recently licensed pilots who join here.

That should certainly be seen as a terribly negative influence on safety. In my opinion, these sort of comments are irresponsible. I don't understand why anyone would make light of the use of flight plans.
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Agree with Zeldman, the smartass comments I recall have all been directed at the media, and their tendency to take the obligatory NTSB statement "No flight plan was filed" and link that to the cause of an acccident. I don't recall reading any comments deriding the use of VFR flight plans per se.

That said, we could have a spirited discussion on where VFR flight plans rank in helping initiate SAR compared to flight following, ADS-B equipped a/c, PLBs, and maybe some other tools I don't even know about.
 
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Van Johnston said:
That said, we could have a spirited discussion on where VFR flight plans rank in helping initiate SAR compared to flight following, ADS-B equipped a/c, PLBs, and maybe some other tools I don't even know about.
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They’re one of many ways, but the one that’s usually not a trigger for SAR but is used today that wasn’t around many years ago... last cell tower hits. SAR has to be underway before anyone looks at it, though.

I used to be a good little pilot and turn off the cell phone in flight.

Once I realized multiple crashes had been found or the search narrowed significantly by CAP NHQ having access to cellular carrier data for RF hits on tower sites, I made sure the little bugger doesn’t bother any avionics and I leave it on in a side pocket.

Not a lot of towers up there but if your device happened to check in with one at particular RF levels, and that can be matched with low altitude data from radar or no altitude, it starts to become useful.

Been used in quite a few searches now.

Besides that, stuff like SPOT is great, as are 406 ELTs with location data and PLBs, both as already mentioned.
 
Zeldman said:
Agree with Zeldman, the smartass comments I recall have all been directed at the media, and their tendency to take the obligatory NTSB statement "No flight plan was filed" and link that to the cause of an acccident. I don't recall reading any comments deriding the use of VFR flight plans per se.
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Yep and yep. That’s been my observation of the flight plan jokes as well. I believe it is a checkbox on the accident investigation form and obligatory language in the report but the media believes it is a significant factor even if the plane just goes up for some pattern work.
 
Zeldman said:
Even here in the southwest the only VFR flight plan I will file will be with someone on the ground, just to let them know when I expect to be at the destination.
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This! If you're just overflying mountains then a VFR flight plan makes sense. But if you're out having fun on a Saturday morning then it makes more sense to leave your intentions and ETA back home with someone that will miss you. Also prepare for the worst, have a Personal ELT and take a survival kit.
 
I’m still chuckling at everyone arguing over how to find out who the PIC was...

Probably the guy who didn’t show up when expected.

Weather is down the tubes over the entire route. I suspect the air search is suspended if it was still operating, and will be for a couple of days.

Numerical chances of finding a survivor after this many days above 8000’ MSL in these overnight temps and now a winter storm, are down around zero. Single digits at best.

The strange thing is, sometimes a snowstorm hides wreckage, sometimes it highlights it against a white backdrop. If the winds die down in the search area on Sunday, and assuming the searchers are even searching in the right place, we might hear something then.

I get both a little sad for these individual pilots who lose their lives to the mountains and a little more angry at pilots in general who don’t respect the mountains with each one of these searches over the years. :(
 
In light of the somewhat confusing and inevitable absurd argument with rude name calling, I've updated my original note to describe the owner of assumed lost aircraft and not the alleged pilot. There are other indications that the owner is also the pilot in question, as well as some background information about the owner that anyone can discover with a tiny bit of online research.
 
murphey said:
In light of the somewhat confusing and inevitable absurd argument with rude name calling, I've updated my original note to describe the owner of assumed lost aircraft and not the alleged pilot. There are other indications that the owner is also the pilot in question, as well as some background information about the owner that anyone can discover with a tiny bit of online research.
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I will repeat that there was no name calling. There have been accurate descriptions of particular actions.
Illustration:
You’re a stupid ninny. <— name calling
That was a stupid thing to have done. <—- description of an act
 
denverpilot said:
I used to be a good little pilot and turn off the cell phone in flight.

Once I realized multiple crashes had been found or the search narrowed significantly by CAP NHQ having access to cellular carrier data for RF hits on tower sites, I made sure the little bugger doesn’t bother any avionics and I leave it on in a side pocket.

Not a lot of towers up there but if your device happened to check in with one at particular RF levels, and that can be matched with low altitude data from radar or no altitude, it starts to become useful.

Been used in quite a few searches now.
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i do put my phone in airplane mode... i might rethink that
 
I text my wife while at the hold short line as a latter part of the pre-takeoff checklist. I then leave the cell phone on in normal mode (but didn't know the cell tower trick Nate detailed). I have been requesting FF on the shorter flights of late. It is easy to be skip the VFR flight plan. I text again for the shutdown checklist. She's a pilot...the texts make her happy...and jealous :)

I think I will look into the PLB. Are there any other strong recommendations besides the ACR Resqlink...maybe a different thread?
 
SkyDog58 said:
Where did you get the N# from? I didn’t see it in any of the news reports. Do we know for certain if the registered owner was the pilot?
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The plane in question N68640 was owned by a friend and local pilot/salesman (aviation) out of KLMO. It is a Riley Twin Turbo. Quite rare and a hell of a plane.
I have zero intel on the current owner. Previous to this pilot - it was sold to a guy in Texas.

As for the pilot - don’t have any info to share on his experience or ratings. I don’t normally chase those things down
 
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