Misdemeanor

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Badtimeinmylife

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Badtimeinmylife
Will a misdemeanor keep you from getting a pilot's license? I really want to learn to fly but I have this black eye in my past. I'm scared to go try and then learn that I can't get it. Very few people in my life know about that part of my past and I don't want everybody to ask me why I all of the sudden lost interest in getting a pilot's license.
 
Probably not. What was the charge, and how long ago was it?
 
Annoying or molesting a child. About 4 years ago.

Edited to add: due to the charge, I am a registered sex offender.
 
I won't go over the details as that is not the focus of this. The crime was a phone call to an underage girl. Thats it.

Now lets stay on topic please.
 
If there aren't any other psychological issues going on, it should be a non-event. It needs to be reported, but shouldn't be a big deal.
 
It is probably worth your while to get your court records together and sit down with an attorney who understands both aviation law and criminal procedure in your state.
 
flyingron said:
If there aren't any other psychological issues going on,
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Because grown men, in their right mind, call little children on the phone for sexual purposes :no:

If mearly taking retilin as a child, having a few too many drinks, etc demonstrates a mental issue to the FAA, common sense would say that this would be child molester won't be getting his wings (and rightfully so).
 
Folks, the original poster asked a legit question.

As a reminder, personal attacks are not permitted on PoA.
 
While it's easy to pile onto a so-called "sex offender", I tend to be a little skeptical of some of the situations that result in people being so labeled for life. I know someone who came within a hair's breadth of being required to register as a sex offender as a result of a high school prank -- streaking an outdoor location, late at night, with no minors (other than himself and a few friends) around. Had the prosecutor not thought that the charge was out of proportion to the incident, his career choices would be severely limited for the rest of his life.

Maybe the OP knew he was calling an underage girl, maybe he didn't. Maybe it wasn't even an underage girl, but a cop posing as one. I don't know. While I have no tolerance at all for child molesters, I also have seen the criminal justice system mercilessly ruin a few people for honest mistakes and minor infractions.
 
DaleB said:
Maybe the OP knew he was calling an underage girl, maybe he didn't. Maybe it wasn't even an underage girl, but a cop posing as one. I don't know. While I have no tolerance at all for child molesters, I also have seen the criminal justice system mercilessly ruin a few people for honest mistakes and minor infractions.
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As a former member of said criminal justice system, I can also attest to the fact that this does happen from time to time. It's unfortunate, but the system does the best job it can and for the most part, it works.

I can also tell you that no one tells the whole truth about their criminal past, especially around this topic. But the fact that he is being forthcoming and telling you all implies he has accepted his mistake and is trying like heck to move on. Let's let him.

More over, second guessing or armchair-quarterbacking him after the fact does absolutely zero good so lets not do that. ;)
 
What Dale said. Just because a person is charged does not mean he did it. In fact being convicted in this day and time by a severely broken system also does not mean he did anything wrong. Many times it is just easier to plead to a lessor charge. I an not defending true child molesters. But the OP's complete story would be needed to pass judgment.
To the OP, I do not have a clue but, It appears an appropriate attorney should be consulted.
 
It's odd everyone here is more accepting of a would be child molester then someone who got two DUIs in college or something.

And we wonder why our country is decaying.

-out
 
ChitDisturber said:
It's odd everyone here is more accepting of a would be child molester then someone who got two DUIs in college or something.

And we wonder why our country is decaying.

-out
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Drugs are bad mmm'kay:lol: We need all the young eagles pilots we can get.:nono:
 
I don't think it's acceptance of child molesting, it's more of needing more information. In some states it's easy to be put on the sex offended list.
1. 18 year dating a 16 year old, has sex, dad and mom go ballistic, guy is charged with statutory rape. :eek:
2. Guy meets girl at bar, they go to guys place and have sex, girl is 15 using fake id to get into bar, guy goes to prison.:eek:
I am not defending having sex with minors at all, it's just not always the creepy 50 year old uncle with the 12 year old. :dunno:
We had a case in Georgia several years ago, where a 17 or 18 year old high school senior had sex with his girlfriend at school, she was 15 or 16 at the time. Her parents found out, it became "rape" the kid spent 5+ years in jail and lost his scholarship to college and was considered a sex offender. :mad2:

ChitDisturber said:
It's odd everyone here is more accepting of a would be child molester then someone who got two DUIs in college or something.

And we wonder why our country is decaying.

-out
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Badtimeinmylife said:
Annoying or molesting a child. About 4 years ago.

Edited to add: due to the charge, I am a registered sex offender.
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The answer is most likely no. There was a guy who was on this site that served time in prison for being a sex offender, he had assaulted a young girl, his daughter. He is now a CFI in Austin, TX.
 
DaleB said:
While it's easy to pile onto a so-called "sex offender", I tend to be a little skeptical of some of the situations that result in people being so labeled for life. I know someone who came within a hair's breadth of being required to register as a sex offender as a result of a high school prank -- streaking an outdoor location, late at night, with no minors (other than himself and a few friends) around. Had the prosecutor not thought that the charge was out of proportion to the incident, his career choices would be severely limited for the rest of his life.

Maybe the OP knew he was calling an underage girl, maybe he didn't. Maybe it wasn't even an underage girl, but a cop posing as one. I don't know. While I have no tolerance at all for child molesters, I also have seen the criminal justice system mercilessly ruin a few people for honest mistakes and minor infractions.
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And maybe the OP was 18 and the person he called 15 and they were both in HS. Remember there are some really silly situations that can result in these labels. There are also some very serious ones too.
 
N747JB said:
1. 18 year dating a 16 year old, has sex, dad and mom go ballistic, guy is charged with statutory rape. :eek:
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There are stories like this where the couple go on to be married for decades.. The laws are more designed to protect young children.. But then again an argument can be made that a 16 year old is a young child and can't make those decisions.. (yet we give them cars... *boggle*)
 
ChitDisturber said:
It's odd everyone here is more accepting of a would be child molester then someone who got two DUIs in college or something.
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I don't think its about acceptance either.. I truly believe that people make mistakes (Who among us hasn't?) and that a person should be allowed to pay for their crime by doing the time (or paying the penalty as defined my our laws) and let them move on.

Under California penal law (which is where he was caught I'm guessing based on the terminology he used) he was punished with a misdemeanor that amounted to up to $5000 in fines and up to a year in jail. It's done. He's done his time. Let him move on.

I refuse to hold someone accountable over the course of their entire life for a single mistake. Be that mistake this, dwi, or stealing candy from a baby. And I'm former law enforcement.

More over, we don't know the totality of the circumstances. It could have been an innocent mistake or it could have been something horrible. We don't know. Assuming the worst really only makes you the bad guy, not him.
 
The problem is that even if you want to claim this sole was a child molester rather than someone making prank phone calls or whatever, that criminal activity that doesn't reflect continual disregard for authority or shows sign of some disqualifying medical condition is not a concern as far as medical certification is concerned. Substance abuse (be it alcohol or drugs) is very much so.

If you want to add sanctions that sex offenders should be banned from obtaining pilots licenses, you'll have to flog that as an independent issue.
 
Back to the OP's original question, the advice of consulting an aviation lawyer familiar with the "can I get a medical" side of things is a good start. Then getting with a top "difficult" case AME to get the complete list of what to obtain for submitting to the FAA. Doing this will not only answer "can I get a 3rd class medical?, but also, if you can, make sure you get on the first go with minimal risk of deferral or denial.
 
Tell me if I'm wrong here but consulting with an attorney gets you a 100% chance of being poorer and 0% chance of changing the FAA's mind if you apply and are denied. There's no appeals process.

Consulting with a senior AME is also 100% chance of being slightly less poorer and an unknown percentage chance they've already worked with FAA on a similar case and know the outcome prior to submitting to alleviate your fears, but again 0% chance of changing FAA's mind.

With those odds I'd just apply and be mentally prepared for either yes or no.

Is my analysis wrong?
 
For those treating me with respect, thank you. I won't give any other details as they are not necessary for the original question. Suffice to say that the public defender said that in any other county, charges never would have been filed. Even the judge questioned if there was something not in the file because of what the DA was trying to recommend. When the DA said "no," the judge basically asked why it was even a case.

And advice to anybody that may find yourself in a conversation with a cop, remember that you have the right to remain silent and you'd do well to exercise that right regardless of whether you think you did anything illegal.

So back to the original topic, is there anyway to get a definitive answer from the FAA before applying? Or does it depend on the mood of the person that is making the decision at the time?
 
I suppose you could just apply for a third class medical/student pilot certificate and see where it gets you.
 
Being convicted of a crime is not an automatic disqualifier for getting a pilot's license. It won't become an issue unless you eventually want to get your ATP, at which time it will probably stop you in your tracks.
 
AOPA legal services? But, aside from that I'd just go for it. However, I have a friend who is transgendered post-op and they tried to deny her medical on the grounds that she was not in her right mind (seriously). I would just go for it and fight any denial letter if it happens.
 
craigvince said:
Being convicted of a crime is not an automatic disqualifier for getting a pilot's license. It won't become an issue unless you eventually want to get your ATP, at which time it will probably stop you in your tracks.
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ATP is Airline Transportation Pilot, right? I so, then I'm not interested. I just want to own and fly my own plane.
 
Badtimeinmylife said:
So back to the original topic, is there anyway to get a definitive answer from the FAA before applying? Or does it depend on the mood of the person that is making the decision at the time?
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This is the current Guide for Aviation Medical Examiners that describes when an examiner must defer or deny an application:

http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/avs/offices/aam/ame/guide/media/guide.pdf

Item 18w beginning on page 39 appears to be where you would report your arrest and conviction. It refers to Item 47 beginning on page 135, which seems to indicate those conditions that would trigger a deferral or denial. You should review it. In my layman's review, I cannot see anything in them that an AME could use to justify either a deferral to the FAA or a denial.

My guess, and it is only a guess, is that absent any other medical condition, you would be granted a medical. While it is possible that the FAA could revoke the medical or otherwise request more information, it seems unlikely. The crime and its most likely underlying causes per se don't seem to have anything to do with safe piloting.
 
denverpilot said:
Tell me if I'm wrong here but consulting with an attorney gets you a 100% chance of being poorer and 0% chance of changing the FAA's mind if you apply and are denied. There's no appeals process.

Consulting with a senior AME is also 100% chance of being slightly less poorer and an unknown percentage chance they've already worked with FAA on a similar case and know the outcome prior to submitting to alleviate your fears, but again 0% chance of changing FAA's mind.

With those odds I'd just apply and be mentally prepared for either yes or no.

Is my analysis wrong?
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If you are of the belief that a lawyer's job is to yell and scream at the FAA to try to get what is to be something it is not, your analysis is spot on.

If you are of the belief that a lawyer's job is to review a situation and give the client advice and counsel on whether there is a problem to begin with and, if so, whether there is a legitimate way around it, then your analysis is way off.

Whether either is worth the expenditure of time or money depends on your point of view.

The very first piece of aviation-related legal advice I ever gave was to a commercial pilot facing both a criminal charge and a possible new job at the same time. Her job depended on the result. My work consisted of a consultation with the lawyer who was handling the criminal case to discuss plea bargain alternatives that would pass both FAA muster and her future employer's requirements. No one yelled or screamed. She got the job and thought it was well-worth it; you might not have.

Overall, my experience has been that some criminal defendants are not even correct about what they were actually convicted of and what the consequences are. You might be surprised at that, but it happens a good amount of the time, even to people of intelligence when dealing with a system that can be procedurally complicated.

BTW, there is an appeal process for denial of a certificate. Of course, the existence of an appeals process is not a guarantee of success.
 
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Jim, I couldn't find anything in there that would exclude me. Thanks for the info.

Mark, Thank you for the info about the appeal.
 
Badtimeinmylife said:
Jim, I couldn't find anything in there that would exclude me. Thanks for the info.

Mark, Thank you for the info about the appeal.
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BTW, I don't think anyone mentioned it but it may be worth a free 6-month AOPA membership to be able to access the AOPA "Red Board" and anonymously post a question in the Medical Matters forum. Bruce Chien, a senior AME who also hangs out here frequents it and can be extremely helpful on the medical side of the equation.
 
Thanks Mark. I saw the "anonymous" section on here after I posted the question. Oh well.
 
The only person around here who really knows the correct answer to this question about Part 67 medical certification (I can tell you for sure it is not a Part 61 pilot certification issue) is Dr. Bruce Chien, MD. Your best bet for getting an answer from him is by posting it in the medical matters forum.
 
Ron Levy said:
The only person around here who really knows the correct answer to this question about Part 67 medical certification (I can tell you for sure it is not a Part 61 pilot certification issue) is Dr. Bruce Chien, MD. Your best bet for getting an answer from him is by posting it in the medical matters forum.
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Or emailing him directly.

Check the contact information page on www.aeromedicaldoc.com
 
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