Minor in possession of alcohol

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A young man was arrested on his college campus after admitting to an officer that he had in fact consumed an alcoholic beverage. No breath or blood test, he wasn't driving, it is treated as a misdemeanor and will likely result in some type of community service, 20 hours or so. He hasn't gone to court yet, due to go in early August. Does he need to report this to the FAA? He is a student pilot.
Even the officer told him he should have denied that he had been drinking, he didn't have any alcohol with him, just in his system and on his breath.
 
He needs a good lawyer.

Kid also needs to WAKE UP! You never, ever, ever talk to a cop, and you sure as heck don't admit to a crime.

I hope he was really drunk, otherwise he should get his money back from the college, education without the muscle upstairs ain't going to be worth much.


Sad these things even happen, guess there were no real crimes to deal with that night :rolleyes:
 
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Most likely not, it depends on the exact charge. Just read the wording on the medical questionnaire and published reporting requirements and make your determination from there. It doesn't sound like a problem.
 
Unregistered said:
A young man was arrested on his college campus after admitting to an officer that he had in fact consumed an alcoholic beverage. No breath or blood test, he wasn't driving, it is treated as a misdemeanor and will likely result in some type of community service, 20 hours or so. He hasn't gone to court yet, due to go in early August. Does he need to report this to the FAA? He is a student pilot.
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What's the timing? If the medical is done before the court then no, there's nothing to report because there's been no conviction yet...but there will be on the next one. It's probably covered under 18w (other convictions), this isn't a motor vehicle incident for 18v and instant reporting is not required.

There's no report, but it will come up on medical, either now or later. REMEMBER IT! It's probably a nothing event by itself but it becomes very complicated if you don't report it.
 
James331 said:
He needs a good lawyer.

Kid also needs to WAKE UP! You never, ever, ever talk to a cop, and you sure as heck don't admit to a crime.

I hope he was really drunk, otherwise he should get his money back from the college, education without the muscle upstairs ain't going to be worth much.


Sad these things even happen, guess there were no real crimes to deal with that night :rolleyes:
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He's a great kid, doesn't normally drink much, if at all, but it was his buddy's 21st birthday, he's honest to a fault, but I don't think he'll ever admit to drinking again!! :)
 
Unregistered said:
He's a great kid, doesn't normally drink much, if at all, but it was his buddy's 21st birthday, he's honest to a fault, but I don't think he'll ever admit to drinking again!! :)
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He doesn't need to be dishonest, just say "Sorry, officer, I choose not to answer any questions at this time."
 
It's college, I'd be more concerned if he wasn't drinking, but telling a cop you were drinking when you're not 21.... That's not honest to a fault, it's just not thinking.

Hope it works out for him, I'd get a lawyer and get it kicked.


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ugyzs7jlIw0
 
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That is what I was thinking, his medical is good for another year or two, but I didn't want him to miss reporting it if he needed to. No sense in making it worse! When I was underage, minor in possession wasn't even a charge, the cop you make you pour out your beer!

bflynn said:
What's the timing? If the medical is done before the court then no, there's nothing to report because there's been no conviction yet...but there will be on the next one. It's probably covered under 18w (other convictions), this isn't a motor vehicle incident for 18v and instant reporting is not required.

There's no report, but it will come up on medical, either now or later. REMEMBER IT! It's probably a nothing event by itself but it becomes very complicated if you don't report it.
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If he wasn't driving, he has no immediate reporting to do.

Once convicted he needs to report it forever more on 18w. You didn't indicate what state, but some states (like Virginia here) have a deal where you do some community service, pay your fees, take the alcohol course and they dismiss the citation, this obviates 18w, but then probably needs to be reported in 18v. Note 18v item (2) is NOT restricted to driving at the time.
 
Unregistered said:
That is what I was thinking, his medical is good for another year or two, but I didn't want him to miss reporting it if he needed to. No sense in making it worse! When I was underage, minor in possession wasn't even a charge, the cop you make you pour out your beer!
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Read the rules as stated in the FARs, and apply them as due. Most likely this will end up as a non reportable event. Read the rules and make sure that it gets adjudicated in such a fashion. This can be a misdemeanor or an infraction, make sure it's an infraction, and that it gets cleared with probation and an SIS. If you or he doesn't know how to negotiate this, hire a lawyer, this shouldn't cost more than $450 to make sure it's non reportable.
 
flyingron said:
If he wasn't driving, he has no immediate reporting to do.
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As per 61.15

Once convicted he needs to report it forever more on 18w. You didn't indicate what state, but some states (like Virginia here) have a deal where you do some community service, pay your fees, take the alcohol course and they dismiss the citation, this obviates 18w, but then probably needs to be reported in 18v. Note 18v item (2) is NOT restricted to driving at the time.
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see http://flighttraining.aopa.org/pdfs/FAA_Form_8500-8_Medical_App.pdf
 
I agree with above. Not surprised he honestly told the cops he had a few, at least he wasn't driving. I would rate it much better than a DUI, still a serious wake up call for a hopeful future pilot.
 
Unregistered said:
That is what I was thinking, his medical is good for another year or two, but I didn't want him to miss reporting it if he needed to. No sense in making it worse! When I was underage, minor in possession wasn't even a charge, the cop you make you pour out your beer!
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FWIW, his medical should be good for Five years, so unless he's been a student pilot for three years, he should have more than a year or two left.
 
Here's what the FAA website says about it:

Reporting Requirements
Under 14 CFR 61.15, all pilots must send a Notification Letter (MS Word) to FAA’s Security and Investigations Division within 60 calendar days of the effective date of an alcohol-related conviction or administrative action. In 14 CFR 61.15(c), alcohol-related convictions or administrative actions refer to motor vehicle actions (MVA).


Read this, understand it, and don't mention anything that is not covered.

http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?rgn=div8&node=14:2.0.1.1.2.1.1.11
 
61.15 is quite explicit about what is considered a "motor vehicle action" requiring an immediate report. All of the listed things require you to be have been operating a vehicle. Being blitzed on foot doesn't count.

As pointed out, he almost certainly will have to report it on his next medical under 18 v or w, depending on how his court case plays out (unless the charges are unconditionally dismissed).

Again, if someone would tell us what STATE this occurred in, we could come up with better strategies. I can tell you in Virginia around most of the college campuses there are programs that will avoid a conviction, but are structured in a way that will certainly result in an 18 v "YES" answer.
 
flyingron said:
61.15 is quite explicit about what is considered a "motor vehicle action" requiring an immediate report. All of the listed things require you to be have been operating a vehicle. Being blitzed on foot doesn't count.

As pointed out, he almost certainly will have to report it on his next medical under 18 v or w, depending on how his court case plays out (unless the charges are unconditionally dismissed).

Again, if someone would tell us what STATE this occurred in, we could come up with better strategies. I can tell you in Virginia around most of the college campuses there are programs that will avoid a conviction, but are structured in a way that will certainly result in an 18 v "YES" answer.
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State, county, municipality, neighborhood, degree of local trouble with kids, enforcement attitudes, whether anyone in the car mouthed off, "standard" deals for first offenders ... [feel free to add variables to the list].

It is tempting to say, "this is how it goes down" but the variables are so many. I mentioned in another thread that I'm doing a lot of pro bono expungement work these days. It's in a state where pre-conviction deferrals are often used. Nevertheless, I'm often amazed when I review a client's record and find first offense convictions for things that I would have expected to see a deferral and dismissal. I can't help but think, "probably unrepresented" since someone presenting your case who the prosecutor knows well can make a difference.

Again depending on where, the cost of a professional defense can be pretty inexpensive. Low-level misdemeanors like this are often handled by lawyers who do them in bulk (like traffic tickets). If it's a college area, I can't help but think that student services knows exactly who is good for that.

One thing to think about though that may not be on the attorney's radar screen is the aviation consequences. Must be about 20 years ago now, but I once received a call from a career pilot facing a reckless driving charge. The pilot's attorney didn't understand the aviation ramifications of the "great deal" he worked out and the pilot asked me to speak with him. The result was a "worse" deal in the eyes of the defense attorney and the prosecutor (who was happy to oblige) but a much better one for the career pilot.
 
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Actually, I hope the kid gives up airplanes to pursue something else. I don't want anyone stupid enough to admit to committing a crime to the police in the left seat of an airplane. Too many ways that can go wrong.
 
Unregistered said:
He's a great kid, doesn't normally drink much, if at all, but it was his buddy's 21st birthday, he's honest to a fault, but I don't think he'll ever admit to drinking again!! :)
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Yeah....... that might cause some issues later in life.....
 
Go see a good lawyer and get it resolved! Yaking about it on the internet won't cut it. Some people are still driving, flying with five, six different DWI convictions! This young mans problem is minor unless you make it more. A good lawyer will make it disappear.
 
Unregistered said:
He's a great kid, doesn't normally drink much, if at all, but it was his buddy's 21st birthday, he's honest to a fault, but I don't think he'll ever admit to drinking again!! :)
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And I'd guess, very humble.

flyingron said:
61.15 is quite explicit about what is considered a "motor vehicle action" requiring an immediate report. All of the listed things require you to be have been operating a vehicle. Being blitzed on foot doesn't count.

As pointed out, he almost certainly will have to report it on his next medical under 18 v or w, depending on how his court case plays out (unless the charges are unconditionally dismissed).

Again, if someone would tell us what STATE this occurred in, we could come up with better strategies. I can tell you in Virginia around most of the college campuses there are programs that will avoid a conviction, but are structured in a way that will certainly result in an 18 v "YES" answer.
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This.

As long as there was no motor vehicle involved, this does not fall under 61.15 and therefore not under 18v. But it does belong under question 18w of the medical.

61.15 has five sections, which can be summarized as
a) drugs are a no-no. (narcotic drugs, marijuana, or depressant or stimulant drugs)
b) Flying after drinking or flying with drugs are no-nos.
c) A Motor Vehicle Incident (MVI) = car + alcohol or drugs + conviction.
d) if you two MVIs in three years you can lose your certificate.
e) If you have an MVI you have to report it within 60 days.
f) If you don't report it, you can lose your certificate.

As of now, there were no drugs, no flying and no motor vehicle operation mentioned. Assuming this is correct, 61.15 doesn't apply
 
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tlglenn said:
Ideally the student would go through a diversion program overseen by the dean of students and avoid the judicial system.
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I spoke with my local solicitor today, he is friends with the solicitor where he is charged. He said it would be basically a first time offender, diversion program situation. He has already met with the school and received 20 hours of community service, plus the alcohol class. This is the actual city/county he is dealing with. The charges are from the city, but it was on school property so they are involved as well. :)
It should all go away, I just want to make sure it doesn't effect his future flying if he decides to make a career out of it. :)
Thanks for all the replies, even the snarky ones!
 
Unregistered said:
I spoke with my local solicitor today, he is friends with the solicitor where he is charged. He said it would be basically a first time offender, diversion program situation. He has already met with the school and received 20 hours of community service, plus the alcohol class. This is the actual city/county he is dealing with. The charges are from the city, but it was on school property so they are involved as well. :)
It should all go away, I just want to make sure it doesn't effect his future flying if he decides to make a career out of it. :)
Thanks for all the replies, even the snarky ones!
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No, regardless how this comes out, it will not have a career impact on him. As long as he doesn't demonstrate repeat behavior, he is fine.
 
Unregistered said:
I spoke with my local solicitor today, he is friends with the solicitor where he is charged. He said it would be basically a first time offender, diversion program situation. He has already met with the school and received 20 hours of community service, plus the alcohol class. This is the actual city/county he is dealing with. The charges are from the city, but it was on school property so they are involved as well. :)
It should all go away, I just want to make sure it doesn't effect his future flying if he decides to make a career out of it. :)
Thanks for all the replies, even the snarky ones!
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He's full of mistakes.

Shoulda contacted a lawyer, before the above and got the entire thing kicked


Oh well
 
James331 said:
He's full of mistakes.

Shoulda contacted a lawyer, before the above and got the entire thing kicked


Oh well
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Too late, single infraction, not a significant hurdle. I haven't met a squeaky clean chief pilot or ops manager yet. He hasn't endangered his ability to get a Class I medical yet, and there is no DUI on the record, he's still a solid hire.

If it was adjudicated an SIS (Suspended Imposition of Sentence) then it is basically 'kicked' at the point he fulfills his CS.
 
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Unregistered said:
A young man was arrested on his college campus after admitting to an officer that he had in fact consumed an alcoholic beverage. No breath or blood test, he wasn't driving, it is treated as a misdemeanor and will likely result in some type of community service, 20 hours or so. He hasn't gone to court yet, due to go in early August. Does he need to report this to the FAA? He is a student pilot.
Even the officer told him he should have denied that he had been drinking, he didn't have any alcohol with him, just in his system and on his breath.
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Minor under 21 or minor under 18.

It matters.
 
As stated, the young man's biggest pledge/challenge needs to be "...sin no more".

With the FAA, a single incident can be dealt with following the correct procedure, documentation, and assistance with the right AME advocate.

Multiple offences will quickly turn the airmen into burnt toast.
 
James331 said:
He's full of mistakes.

Shoulda contacted a lawyer, before the above and got the entire thing kicked


Oh well
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Assuming "kicked" means go away with zero consequences, you may be giving lawyers powers and abilities they don't have. Process experts, advisors, and negotiators, yes. And, when necessary warriors. Magicians, no (although sometimes things turn out in a way that makes one wonder).
 
midlifeflyer said:
Assuming "kicked" means go away with zero consequences, you may be giving lawyers powers and abilities they don't have. Process experts, advisors, and negotiators, yes. And, when necessary warriors. Magicians, no (although sometimes things turn out in a way that makes one wonder).
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It's the U.S. Justice system, you can get as much justice as you can afford.



AggieMike88 said:
As stated, the young man's biggest pledge/challenge needs to be "...sin no more".

With the FAA, a single incident can be dealt with following the correct procedure, documentation, and assistance with the right AME advocate.

Multiple offences will quickly turn the airmen into burnt toast.
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A college kid drinking, that's a sin lol

His biggest problem is getting diarrhea of the mouth with a cop, not seeking consul immediately, and talking to more "authority" figures without a lawyer.

His poor decision making skills were not based on drinking, but his shooting mouth off.
 
James,

If you can't figure out euphanisms, then somedays, I think you'd want to make a loud debate on whether that one-eyed cat is entering or leaving the room.
 
midlifeflyer said:
Assuming "kicked" means go away with zero consequences, you may be giving lawyers powers and abilities they don't have. Process experts, advisors, and negotiators, yes. And, when necessary warriors. Magicians, no (although sometimes things turn out in a way that makes one wonder).
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I did contact a lawyer, actually two if them, one at home and one at the school. Both told me the same thing, he'll get community service, a small fine and have to attend an alcohol class. One lawyer is a former prosecutor in the county and the other is my lawyer. But, you're right no magician tricks, he screwed up and he'll stand up and do what he needs to do to make it right.
And someone asked, he's 20.
I have confidence that my solicitor will help me get it worked out, just wanted to know about disclosure to the FAA.
Again thanks
 
retailguy said:
I think that ALL OF US can agree that you are the forum expert on this topic.
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Won't see my butt talking to cops outside of a few lines :)


"Are you detaining me"
"Am I free to go"
"I have nothing to say to you without a lawyer"
 
A misdemeanor? Seriously? What state is this?

What the hell have we come to.
 
Sac Arrow said:
A misdemeanor? Seriously? What state is this?

What the hell have we come to.
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Georgia, they are cracking down on the campus drinking! LOL Like it's ever going to change, but at least since this incident they are issuing tickets, he got to ride to the station and post bond! :)
 
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