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Military wants hot pilots, no hot dogs
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wsuffa
Touchdown! Greaser!
This is Texan for "Hey Y'all, Watch This":
"For training, the Army uses a dramatic cockpit video from the crash of an Apache attack helicopter at Fort Campbell, Ky. It shows the co-pilot yelling, "Yeehaw!" during one maneuver banned as unsafe by the Army."
"For training, the Army uses a dramatic cockpit video from the crash of an Apache attack helicopter at Fort Campbell, Ky. It shows the co-pilot yelling, "Yeehaw!" during one maneuver banned as unsafe by the Army."
Anthony
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Anthony
To be honest, I never really liked the movie "Top Gun". It makes Naval Aviators look like uncontrolled idiots. Its worth it to watch for some of the flying scenes, but not one of my favorite flying movies. Sorry Len. 
silver-eagle
En-Route
Kind of like "Hey, watch this. Hold my beer!"
To say every pilot has done some hotdogging sure doesn't put a lot of faith in pilots. I don't know about you, but I've never done any hotdogging, showboating, or otherwize high risk flying. As a favorite PAX of mine said the other day, I always err on the side of caution. Just enough bold to get us back on the ground. It's not like you can just pull over and stop, is it?
To say every pilot has done some hotdogging sure doesn't put a lot of faith in pilots. I don't know about you, but I've never done any hotdogging, showboating, or otherwize high risk flying. As a favorite PAX of mine said the other day, I always err on the side of caution. Just enough bold to get us back on the ground. It's not like you can just pull over and stop, is it?
grattonja
Line Up and Wait
It's gotta be a tough line to draw for military aviators. They have to be good enough at hard core stuff to dodge a missile or other weapons in air to air combat, but not so good at hardcore that they destroy planes and themselves. Plus, they have got to have that "killer instinct" sort of thing that goes with a certain amount of "watch this" type stuff. And it must be hard for them to learn the line between letting adrenaline get them where they need to go and when adrenaline is about to push them too far.
I don't envy anyone who has to supervise people like that, and set reasonable limits, and enforce them.
I'd rather be the pilot.
Jim G
I don't envy anyone who has to supervise people like that, and set reasonable limits, and enforce them.
I'd rather be the pilot.
Jim G
gismo
Touchdown! Greaser!
silver-eagle said:
I've done a few wild things like flying inverted through a hangar, knife edge between the antennas on top of a tall building in Chicago and rolling a B2 (after being told it hadn't been done before).
Of course all those things were done in various flight simulators, not actual aircraft.
Len Lanetti
Cleared for Takeoff
Anthony said:
Anthony,
As there are numerious naval aviators present I'll refrain from mentioning your prejudice against documentaries as it might be detremental to my health.
;<)
Len
Go Air Force
ausrere
Pattern Altitude
A similar article on CNN:
http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/05/08/rogue.pilots.crashes.ap/index.html?section=cnn_mostpopular
http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/05/08/rogue.pilots.crashes.ap/index.html?section=cnn_mostpopular
Frank Browne
Final Approach
lancefisher said:I've done a few wild things like flying inverted through a hangar, knife edge between the antennas on top of a tall building in Chicago and rolling a B2 (after being told it hadn't been done before).
Of course all those things were done in various flight simulators, not actual aircraft.
I can tell ya this.....4000' is not enough altitude for a neophyte to roll a P-3 Orion!
poadeleted20
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Yes, it is a balance, and that means disciplining yourself to control your impulses and take only the risks which must be taken to accomplish the mission, but to go ahead and risk your butt when it must be done. That's why the FIRST thing they teach you is discipline, and for many Navy flyers (aviators AND flight officers), that is done by Marine DI's. What would be interesting to me would be to compare the commissioning source of the "problem" aviators (NROTC vs Annapolis vs AOCS) with the incidence of discipline failures.grattonja said:
As for what happens to the "bad boys," while administrative sanctions may not sound like much to outsiders, one letter of reprimand will end your chances of future promotion, and if you're not already a field grade officer (major/LCDR or higher), that means you're out at the next promotion point (our armed forces operate on an "up or out" system) without pension or benefits, which is a huge, life-time, financial penalty. Even for a field-grade officer, that letter means no further promotion and finishing your career being sent from miserable assignment to miserable assignment -- y'all know what it's like to be the Tropical Survival Training Officer at Thule AB, Greenland, or the Small Boat Control Officer at NAS Adak, AK?
Personally, while I sorta enjoyed Top Gun, when Maverick and Goose were dragged into the skipper's office at the beginning of the movie, I turned to Fran and said, "Well, after their wings are yanked, what are we gonna do for the rest of the movie." When Baldy said, "I can't believe I'm doing this" as he told them they were going to FWS, I was saying, "Me, neither." BTW, if you know who's who, you'll see among the instructors in the background of the classroom during Viper's "welcome aboard" speech an individual who became a squadron commander and then was relieved of command and, I think, either demoted or had a pending promotion rescinded, over the 1991 Tailhook scandal.
Ron Levy
AOCS Class 04-73 (SSgt Timothy E. McNeil, USMC, DI)
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Ghery
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Ron Levy said:
Been there? I have, twice. TDY as a civilian in the late 1970s. About the only place worse, I've been told, is Diego Garcia. The difference in 1977? They had women on Adak. DG was so bad they sent their people to Adak for R&R.
Adak - Birthplace of the winds. Or so it said on the windbreaker I bought there!
Rudy
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My new favorite saying to my passengers came up when my mom flew with me she isn't a very calm passenger! She kept saying "what are you doing, don't do that" when i would check carb heat or flip my fuel pump on! I said mom, i don't wanna die either, im not gonna do something that could hurt us! A 45 degree bank is really all i have ever done with a passenger. not a big risk and i like it that way!!
Lawreston
En-Route
lancefisher said:
wsuffa
Touchdown! Greaser!
I remember flying up to the top of Farnsworth Peak outside of SLC in a JetRanger flown by an old military pilot. We ended up chasing mountain lions at low altitude down the mountain.
Tom-D
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Ghery said:Been there? I have, twice. TDY as a civilian in the late 1970s. About the only place worse, I've been told, is Diego Garcia. The difference in 1977? They had women on Adak. DG was so bad they sent their people to Adak for R&R.
Adak - Birthplace of the winds. Or so it said on the windbreaker I bought there!
NAS ADAK has been closed for many years, and now there is absolutely NOTHING at Diego Garcia, but there were women stationed there, I have two of them in my shop at Whidbey now.
The NAVY policy of up or out has been dropped due to the dificulty in recruiting. 30 year (LDO) Lts are common in todays Navy.
The NAVY found out that the up or out policy left many officers in positions they were not qualified for, and a big defict in training on the way up.
But Ron's right about perfict evaluations, and a good job on your last assignment, is the only way up now.
gkainz
Final Approach
I've never been to Adak, but I have been kicked off of Diego Garcia. Seems the base commander didn't take kindly to a swimming pool full of green flight suits at 0230, after closing down the O'club, after Bingo to DG "one dark and stormy night" after way too many days at sea...Ghery said:Been there? I have, twice. TDY as a civilian in the late 1970s. About the only place worse, I've been told, is Diego Garcia. The difference in 1977? They had women on Adak. DG was so bad they sent their people to Adak for R&R.
Adak - Birthplace of the winds. Or so it said on the windbreaker I bought there!
"Get your butts off my island and I don't ever want to see you ragtag bunch of hooligans back here again!"
poadeleted3
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gkainz said:
Bet that broke your heart!!
When I was stationed at Guam in the late 80s, some of our guys got woke up in the middle of the night and packed off to Diego Garcia when there was supposedly someone threatening to blow up the DC-10s we had there. The brought back pictures of some broken down house... the most exciting thing they could find there. I loved going TDY, and volunteered for every one that came down the pike, but I kind of got the feeling that I hadn't missed much not being selected for that one LOL.
Ken Ibold
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Aww, you've just lost that lovin' feeling.Anthony said:
Len Lanetti
Cleared for Takeoff
Ken Ibold said:
Ken,
You have to take David & Matthew's advice..."Dad can we fast forward at the girlie parts?"
Len
Anthony
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Anthony
Len Lanetti said:
Ha! My wife always watches me squirm at the "girlie" parts. Watching other people's "relationships" is worse than washing the oil and grease off the belly of the Tiger for me. Actually way worse than washing the belly of any airplane as that actually relaxes me.
Ken. Tom Cruise CAN NOT sing. That's another fast forward opportunity. I only like watching the A-4's and F-5's (disguised as a Mig 28, whatever the heck that is). Don't get me started on this movie nor that stinker "Officer and a Gentleman". Totally unwatchable, except for the parts where the D.I., Lou Gosset abused Richard Gere.
bbchien
Touchdown! Greaser!
The problem is actually biologic, I think. Young men have pools of hormones. I shouldda died ten times but somehow survived. If you survive, you eventually become "managerial" in style and well considered in all matters...at least matters or record. The acquisition of judgement is a fascinating subject.gkainz said:
An examples of a man who did not: Virgil Grissom.
You can roll a P3 at 4000 feet. Believe me. You just need enough airspeed.
Ken Ibold
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Anthony, you get the award for the understatement of the year!!!Anthony said:
bbchien said:
Hey. Bruce! Current information is making Gus look better.
Wally Shirra swears that Gus didn't have the indent on his thumb he'd had to have if he hit the hard to press "blow hatch" button. He got reamed by "The Right Stuff."
The last I heard, they didn't find any evidence to slam Gus when they recovered Freedom 7.
"It JUST BLEW!"
Besides he did a lot for the early astronauts by being strong headed about the design of the Gemini and Apollo capsules. He wasn't listened to enough about Apollo, obviously.
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Dave Krall CFII
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Anthony said:
A good cure for TOP GUN is HOT SHOTS, I've found.