Military Controllers

[ErikU]

I went to an ATC seminar a few weeks ago where we were told that 95% of the time we talk to military in the area, we are talking to totally new trainees.

While I usually get very good service from these guys, there have been a couple things that have made me go hmm...

There is a Army Airfield that gets almost zero use.. I even asked a controller why they have an airport there if it doesn't get used,. he didn't know why. So I was asking for a VFR transition once.. had to ask and rephrase it about five times, and correct my tail number and type several times. He came back and said things like "you want to transport where?" I would say "Negative, requesting TRANSITION eastbound at 2000ft" He would say "transfer complete"... I would say "uhhh... are you saying my TRANSITION is approved"? went back and fourth like this for a while. He finally came back and said "TRANSACTION approved". I figured that was good enough. I could have been a smart ass and asked for a receipt though.

Yesterday I transitioned an Air Force Base that is adjacent to the Army Airfield. I asked the AFB controller if he could coordinate a handoff to the AAF since I would be going through both. After getting the frequency change to the Army Airfield, my exchange went something like this: "Gray tower Bonanza 5894S 5 south on the transition westbound at 1500ft" The reply was "Cessna 534x, say position" Went like that for a bit until he understood. Then he says simply "Roger, contact Seattle". huh??? I say "I'm not asking for flight following, just for a transition" He says "roger, contact Seattle". Seattle who??? on what frequency??? and why? (and no, Seattle approach doesn't own this airspace by letter of agreement) At this point I am over the center of the airfield squaking the code the adjacent tower gave me. I say again where I am, what I want to do, and that I am on the code from the next door controller. He says "roger, contact seattle". Ok.. I give up. I just monitored the frequency until I was clear, told him I was clear and would now squawk 1200. I know, I know, I shouldn't have done that... but we just couldn't communicate and there wasn't much left for me to do.

pretty funny. I'll bring a tape recorder next time and share!

 

[gismo]

Yesterday I transitioned an Air Force Base that is adjacent to the Army Airfield. I asked the AFB controller if he could coordinate a handoff to the AAF since I would be going through both. After getting the frequency change to the Army Airfield, my exchange went something like this: "Gray tower Bonanza 5894S 5 south on the transition westbound at 1500ft" The reply was "Cessna 534x, say position" Went like that for a bit until he understood. Then he says simply "Roger, contact Seattle". huh??? I say "I'm not asking for flight following, just for a transition" He says "roger, contact Seattle". Seattle who??? on what frequency??? and why? (and no, Seattle approach doesn't own this airspace by letter of agreement) At this point I am over the center of the airfield squaking the code the adjacent tower gave me. I say again where I am, what I want to do, and that I am on the code from the next door controller. He says "roger, contact seattle". Ok.. I give up. I just monitored the frequency until I was clear, told him I was clear and would now squawk 1200. I know, I know, I shouldn't have done that... but we just couldn't communicate and there wasn't much left for me to do.

pretty funny. I'll bring a tape recorder next time and share!

Might have been an interesting time to squawk 7600 and see what the reaction to that was.

 

[poadeleted20]

When stuff like this happens, pick up the phone as soon as you land and call the TRACON at the field in question. Ask for the shift supervisor or facility chief. Then politely describe what you think happened, and as the chief to review the tapes and call you back to discuss it. I've done this before, and it has often led to a bit of retraining for the controller involved. That way, you're part of the solution to an otherwise continuing problem.

And write this up and file it as a NASA ASRS report, too. It's not just about covering your six if you think you broke a rule. The whole purpose of that program is to identify and fix systemic problems, of which this is a classic example.

 

[SCCutler]

I have fortunately always received excellent service from military controllers; usually, only real difference I note is them calling transponder codes, "beacon" codes.

 

[Tom-D]

I went to an ATC seminar a few weeks ago where we were told that 95% of the time we talk to military in the area, we are talking to totally new trainees.

While I usually get very good service from these guys, there have been a couple things that have made me go hmm...

There is a Army Airfield that gets almost zero use.. I even asked a controller why they have an airport there if it doesn't get used,. he didn't know why. So I was asking for a VFR transition once.. had to ask and rephrase it about five times, and correct my tail number and type several times. He came back and said things like "you want to transport where?" I would say "Negative, requesting TRANSITION eastbound at 2000ft" He would say "transfer complete"... I would say "uhhh... are you saying my TRANSITION is approved"? went back and fourth like this for a while. He finally came back and said "TRANSACTION approved". I figured that was good enough. I could have been a smart ass and asked for a receipt though.

Yesterday I transitioned an Air Force Base that is adjacent to the Army Airfield. I asked the AFB controller if he could coordinate a handoff to the AAF since I would be going through both. After getting the frequency change to the Army Airfield, my exchange went something like this: "Gray tower Bonanza 5894S 5 south on the transition westbound at 1500ft" The reply was "Cessna 534x, say position" Went like that for a bit until he understood. Then he says simply "Roger, contact Seattle". huh??? I say "I'm not asking for flight following, just for a transition" He says "roger, contact Seattle". Seattle who??? on what frequency??? and why? (and no, Seattle approach doesn't own this airspace by letter of agreement) At this point I am over the center of the airfield squaking the code the adjacent tower gave me. I say again where I am, what I want to do, and that I am on the code from the next door controller. He says "roger, contact seattle". Ok.. I give up. I just monitored the frequency until I was clear, told him I was clear and would now squawk 1200. I know, I know, I shouldn't have done that... but we just couldn't communicate and there wasn't much left for me to do.

pretty funny. I'll bring a tape recorder next time and share!

Oh Dear, the dreaded south sound controllers, Traveling down the east side to any of the fields like Thun, Crest air park, I always get a gal the does the same thing. You should try to tell them that the F-24 is not a Wart hog. Or a merlin.

But NUW controllers are a great bunch of guy&gals always trying to help.

 

[Ghery]

Oh Dear, the dreaded south sound controllers, Traveling down the east side to any of the fields like Thun, Crest air park, I always get a gal the does the same thing. You should try to tell them that the F-24 is not a Wart hog. Or a merlin.

But NUW controllers are a great bunch of guy&gals always trying to help.

Hey, our guys at OLM is great, too. And I've always had good service from NUW when flying by, too.

 

[Dave Krall CFII]

I went to an ATC seminar a few weeks ago where we were told that 95% of the time we talk to military in the area, we are talking to totally new trainees.

While I usually get very good service from these guys, there have been a couple things that have made me go hmm...

There is a Army Airfield that gets almost zero use.. I even asked a controller why they have an airport there if it doesn't get used,. he didn't know why. So I was asking for a VFR transition once.. had to ask and rephrase it about five times, and correct my tail number and type several times. He came back and said things like "you want to transport where?" I would say "Negative, requesting TRANSITION eastbound at 2000ft" He would say "transfer complete"... I would say "uhhh... are you saying my TRANSITION is approved"? went back and fourth like this for a while. He finally came back and said "TRANSACTION approved". I figured that was good enough. I could have been a smart ass and asked for a receipt though.

Yesterday I transitioned an Air Force Base that is adjacent to the Army Airfield. I asked the AFB controller if he could coordinate a handoff to the AAF since I would be going through both. After getting the frequency change to the Army Airfield, my exchange went something like this: "Gray tower Bonanza 5894S 5 south on the transition westbound at 1500ft" The reply was "Cessna 534x, say position" Went like that for a bit until he understood. Then he says simply "Roger, contact Seattle". huh??? I say "I'm not asking for flight following, just for a transition" He says "roger, contact Seattle". Seattle who??? on what frequency??? and why? (and no, Seattle approach doesn't own this airspace by letter of agreement) At this point I am over the center of the airfield squaking the code the adjacent tower gave me. I say again where I am, what I want to do, and that I am on the code from the next door controller. He says "roger, contact seattle". Ok.. I give up. I just monitored the frequency until I was clear, told him I was clear and would now squawk 1200. I know, I know, I shouldn't have done that... but we just couldn't communicate and there wasn't much left for me to do.

pretty funny. I'll bring a tape recorder next time and share!

Always totally cool voices at Whidbey NAS and always talking at combat speed. They sometimes trip over their own lips or transponder codes as most of us have done when in a hurry.

 

[pete177]

In many cases you are in fact talking to a 19 year old airman.

 

[silver-eagle]

We were all rookies at our jobs at some time in our lives. Even the FAA has rookies in their towers.
Back when South Weymouth NAS was an active field. The tower was always very professional. They weren't all that busy in the years just before the closing, but I never had problems.
The other local bas is OTIS ANGB. As I recall, that's where Cape Approach is located. Sometimes, they are just way too busy.

 

[sere]

When stuff like this happens, pick up the phone as soon as you land and call the TRACON at the field in question. Ask for the shift supervisor or facility chief. Then politely describe what you think happened, and as the chief to review the tapes and call you back to discuss it. I've done this before, and it has often led to a bit of retraining for the controller involved. That way, you're part of the solution to an otherwise continuing problem.

And write this up and file it as a NASA ASRS report, too. It's not just about covering your six if you think you broke a rule. The whole purpose of that program is to identify and fix systemic problems, of which this is a classic example.

I agree with your response in how to handle this type of situation. However I have never had anything short of very professional controllers from the military.

 

[ErikU]

Yes, I have always had great service from Whidbey too... but those guys actually get to work. At Gray Army Airfield I don't think they do much of anything.

Good point about making a phone call. I just didn't think it was worth the hassle,.. especially when it is totally obvious you have a very green guy on the radio.

 

[poadeleted20]

However I have never had anything short of very professional controllers from the military.

I've had two "bads" with Patuxent Approach in my five years here on the Eastern Shore.

One was a controller who must have thought he was a tobacco auctioneer. I guess he figured if he talked faster, he could get more done in the same time and handle more traffic. The actual result was everyone needed him to repeat everything at least three times to get it, so it took twice as long to handle the same amount of traffic.

The other was a situation in which scope-level controllers at Potomac and Patuxent had worked out a handshake deal of which their supervisors were unaware, resulting in deviations from 7110.65 standards when vectoring aircraft onto the ILS 4 approach at Easton.

In each case, one call to the Chief solved the problem. No stigs, no hard feelings -- just everyone being safer, and the Chief was quite happy to be hearing it off the record from me as a result of a "problem" rather than on the record from his commander as a result of an FAA investigation into an accident or violation.