Midair crash with 10 jumpers: all survive! Plane destroyed

Re: Midair crash with 10+ jumpers: all survive! Plane destroyed

I saw that story on the news this morning. Interesting to say the least.

Bong Airport. No wonder! :wink2:
 
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Wonder if Minneapolis live ATC would have this recorded?
 
This is why we need next-gen / ADS-B. It will make air travel safer by eliminating the possibility of mid air collisions.
 
I got a kick out of the video on this morning's news. A couple of local cops interviewing the skydivers and taking notes. Like they have any jurisdiction.

Also, the attached articles says the accident occurred at 6pm. That can't be right, can it? It's dark here at 6pm, well, maybe not dark but the sun's down.

Late in the day, fatigue?
 
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Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
This is why we need next-gen / ADS-B. It will make air travel safer by eliminating the possibility of mid air collisions.
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That certainly would have possibly helped the situation, but it seems to me like the pilots/controllers just would have watched the two dots come together. Seems to me like weather or pilot error related as they flew this formation all the time. Not sure if ADS-B would have helped.
 
I'm confident that Mr. Thorpe's ADS-B comment was dripping with sarcasm.
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
This is why we need next-gen / ADS-B. It will make air travel safer by eliminating the possibility of mid air collisions.
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Pilot Nick said:
That certainly would have possibly helped the situation, but it seems to me like the pilots/controllers just would have watched the two dots come together. Seems to me like weather or pilot error related as they flew this formation all the time. Not sure if ADS-B would have helped.
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The way I understand the article both planes had jumpers in them. They were dropping meat bombs together in tandum. Front plane probably slowed up to let the jumpers out and the rear one ran into the first plane? They were at 12k. :dunno: Time to jump!
 
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Maybe one of these guys had on a helmet cam.
 
Re: Midair crash with 10+ jumpers: all survive! Plane destroyed

timwinters said:
I saw that story on the news this morning. Interesting to say the least.

Bong Airport. No wonder! :wink2:
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:lol:

In reality though, highest scoring WWII aces me MOH winner killed in an early P-80 crash
 
Re: Midair crash with 10+ jumpers: all survive! Plane destroyed

Skylane81E said:
:lol:

In reality though, highest scoring WWII aces me MOH winner killed in an early P-80 crash
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Highest scoring American Ace - the highest scoring ace was German and had more than 300 kills (pretty sure he lived through the war, too)
 
timwinters said:
I'm confident that Mr. Thorpe's ADS-B comment was dripping with sarcasm.
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I thought we were going to require ADS-B out boxes strapped to all the jumpers heads in the nearly perfect future envisioned by FAA. ;)
 
Kudos to the pilots. Two smoking holes and a dozen dead might have been a more typical outcome.
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
This is why we need next-gen / ADS-B. It will make air travel safer by eliminating the possibility of mid air collisions.
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That's a tough call. It's appeared to be a formation flight for all jumpers on oth planes to go together. At least that's the impression I got from a web article. ADSB would not have prevented that mid air.
 
Geico266 said:
The way I understand the article both planes had jumpers in them. They were dropping meat bombs together in tandum. Front plane probably slowed up to let the jumpers out and the rear one ran into the first plane? They were at 12k. :dunno: Time to jump!
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I agree, that is probably what happened. At formation distances it does not take long to quickly overtake the plane ahead if it slows down.

José
 
bbchien said:
Formation- "how hard can it be?"
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Meat bombs hanging on the outside on lead, increased drag slowed lead and #2 did not catch it in the fading light just before sunset. But that's just my guess.

Glad everyone got out, most were already out and hanging on the outside. One report said one jumper was "glued" to the outside of #2 (spin?) before we was able get free and #2 was able to pull out of the dive and recover to a landing.

Pilot #1 had to get out of an airplane breaking apart around him and on fire and pull his chute. Glad a wing did not fail in a position that would block his exit.
 
BillTIZ said:
Meat bombs hanging on the outside on lead, increased drag slowed lead and #2 did not catch it in the fading light just before sunset. But that's just my guess.

Glad everyone got out, most were already out and hanging on the outside. One report said one jumper was "glued" to the outside of #2 (spin?) before we was able get free and #2 was able to pull out of the dive and recover to a landing.

Pilot #1 had to get out of an airplane breaking apart around him and on fire and pull his chute. Glad a wing did not fail in a position that would block his exit.
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Sorry, Bill, I didn't have a [/sarcasm] smiley.
Formation is very difficult to do correctly and most drop zone pilots have no idea. No training.

Then add the external meatbombs to the sauce....
 
Oh yeah, 100% at least a few of them had gopros.

In was reading this on dropzone, seems like no one that was one the load had chimed in yet, maybe bad formation, maybe something funky.

Thing with DZ ops, you're assured that at least a few folks on the load will be filming everything in high def.
 
bbchien said:
Sorry, Bill, I didn't have a [/sarcasm] smiley.
Formation is very difficult to do correctly and most drop zone pilots have no idea. No training.

Then add the external meatbombs to the sauce....
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Roger all Doc!
 
ChitDisturber said:
Oh yeah, 100% at least a few of them had gopros.

In was reading this on dropzone, seems like no one that was one the load had chimed in yet, maybe bad formation, maybe something funky.

Thing with DZ ops, you're assured that at least a few folks on the load will be filming everything in high def.
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Any bets the NTSB asked for all the files, and asked that it not be made public?
 
BillTIZ said:
Any bets the NTSB asked for all the files, and asked that it not be made public?
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I'd guess my people are smart enough to hide that stuff. If the gov gets it will be leaked. Not that it matters if the ntsb are denied, what are we supposed to learn? Don't fly into other airplanes.
 
Re: Midair crash with 10+ jumpers: all survive! Plane destroyed

timwinters said:
Bong Airport. No wonder! :wink2:
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All the local traffic there seems to say either Superior or Skyharborsuperior Traffic on the CTAF since both airports are so close toeachother. I fly up there several times a year and they are always jumping out of Superior.
 
Anyone see the footage of this on NBC news tonight? Wow! Can't believe they all made it out. Survivors will be on Today show tomorrow morning if you missed it.
 
Velocity173 said:
Anyone see the footage of this on NBC news tonight? Wow! Can't believe they all made it out. Survivors will be on Today show tomorrow morning if you missed it.
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NBC news...:dunno::mad::mad:..


Breaking news tomorrow morning.................

BUSH caused the crash....:lol:;)
 
N801BH said:
NBC news...:dunno::mad::mad:..


Breaking news tomorrow morning.................

BUSH caused the crash....:lol:;)
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I'm not a Democrat. It just happened to be the news that I was watching at the time.
 
Video is up @ NBC. Jumpers cashed out they are on a week long publicity tour in NYC. Too bad the skydiving season is ending that is fine free advertising.
 
It looked like both planes were in the pilots blind spots.

These two planes were their only jump planes.

Cause of crash according to jump instructor..."believes the lead plane may have created unstable air for the tracking plane."

The 182 "heavy" vortices sucked the 185 right down into them.

Amazing all made it back to earth safely. Do all jump plane pilots wear emergency chutes?
 
ClimbnSink said:
Video is up @ NBC. Jumpers cashed out they are on a week long publicity tour in NYC. Too bad the skydiving season is ending that is fine free advertising.
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NBC is paying six figures for two weeks of exclusive video rights.
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
This is why we need next-gen / ADS-B. It will make air travel safer by eliminating the possibility of mid air collisions.
Click to expand...

They were intentionally flying formation. How, exactly would ADS-B work when two pilots are intentionally flying in very close proximity...???

We will always have midairs.. this will just minimize the risk.. but as long as there are two aircraft the risk will always exist that they will meet in the air.
 
Lose sight of wingman, call " knock it off " and go your safe, briefed, direction. No way they both had each other in sight.
 
RV10flyer said:
Amazing all made it back to earth safely. Do all jump plane pilots wear emergency chutes?
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Short answer is no. Some STC's for the "Jump door require it, some dont. For example at the place I flew jumpers the 206 required it, the 208 did not.

denverpilot said:
Lose sight of wingman, call " knock it off " and go your safe, briefed, direction. No way they both had each other in sight.
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Were they supposed to be in formation, or did they just lose track of each other?
 
flyingmoose said:
Short answer is no. Some STC's for the "Jump door require it, some dont. For example at the place I flew jumpers the 206 required it, the 208 did not.


Were they supposed to be in formation, or did they just lose track of each other?
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If you watch the video, the one airplane was above and to the left of the other just before the collision - neither pilot could see the other aircraft. It makes me wonder if they really planned to be in formation...

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/201...-terrifying-collision-and-chaotic-plunge?lite
 
Doggtyred said:
They were intentionally flying formation. How, exactly would ADS-B work when two pilots are intentionally flying in very close proximity...???
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It wouldn't. Never in a million years. And it won't prevent the other collisions which happen outside the ADS-B mandated air space areas, or cases like this, or...

We will always have midairs.. this will just minimize the risk.. but as long as there are two aircraft the risk will always exist that they will meet in the air.
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And ADS-B is not going to make a significant reduction in the number of midairs in spite of the millions of dollars that are getting spent to line the pockets of the avionics companies.

On the bright side, If ADS-B does replace primary radar (otherwise, what would be the point?), people can leave their transponders off and not worry about getting busted for nicking the class B airspace (or stadium TFRs, or...) because ATC will never know they are there.:hairraise:
 
The aircraft are required to talk to ATC for advisories. I'm sure both pilots knew they were in close proximity to one another. ADS-B wouldn't make any difference.
 
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