Midair crash with 10 jumpers: all survive! Plane destroyed

During the interview, one gal said the pilot (I think of the lower plane) was a student pilot for jumpers.

That video is amazing.
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
On the bright side, If ADS-B does replace primary radar (otherwise, what would be the point?), people can leave their transponders off and not worry about getting busted for nicking the class B airspace (or stadium TFRs, or...) because ATC will never know they are there.:hairraise:
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ADS-B can't replace any radars - the FAA believes that radar will be used to validate ADS-B reports. ADS-B is flawed because there is no validation of ADS-B reports but the FAA doesn't care because radars can be used to prevent spoofing (so they claim).
 
Bob Noel said:
ADS-B can't replace any radars - the FAA believes that radar will be used to validate ADS-B reports. ADS-B is flawed because there is no validation of ADS-B reports but the FAA doesn't care because radars can be used to prevent spoofing (so they claim).
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So, what is the point of ADS-B if they are getting the same information that they already have on the radar screen?
 
The pilot in the doomed plane will be on NBC Dateline when they cover it - maybe tonight.

Kudos to the kid who checked that he had flight controls, pulled the engine to idle, and glided in to "One of my better landings" with a bent prop.

Also note that the guy on the strut had a Cessna wing snap and break across his back. Good thing they're made out of aluminum.
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
So, what is the point of ADS-B if they are getting the same information that they already have on the radar screen?
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If we ignore the design flaws due to the lack of validation as well as the tower of babble stuff because of the two datalinks, ADS-B would be an awesome system to provide situational awareness. It could provide a much better collosion avoidance capability than TCAS II. (Another wonderful possibility is the concept of putting an ADS-B out transmitter on towers and other obstructions).

ADS-B can provide an means of receiving other flight information (e.g., weather, etc).

For the controller, ADS-B can provide more accurate position information and additional intent information.
 
BillTIZ said:
Meat bombs hanging on the outside on lead, increased drag slowed lead and #2 did not catch it in the fading light just before sunset. But that's just my guess.

Glad everyone got out, most were already out and hanging on the outside. One report said one jumper was "glued" to the outside of #2 (spin?) before we was able get free and #2 was able to pull out of the dive and recover to a landing.

Pilot #1 had to get out of an airplane breaking apart around him and on fire and pull his chute. Glad a wing did not fail in a position that would block his exit.
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I saw a couple helmet cam videos of this accident, the planes were staggered vertically, a C180 over a 182 it looked like, and they came together in a vertical collision. I couldn't tell if the 180 was descending or (more likely since a jump was occurring at the time) the 182 was ascending.
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
So, what is the point of ADS-B if they are getting the same information that they already have on the radar screen?
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They're not getting the same information with ADS-B compared to the current Mode3 setup. They're getting AC ID, position, true airspeed, track. All of this in areas where radar coverage isn't available. It's update rate will allow reduced separation as well.

In this particular case I don't think ADS-B would have made any difference. I'm sure that they were talking to ATC. I'm sure they both knew each other where in roughly the same area. You can bet they even saw each other at one point then took their eyes off each other for a few minutes.

With the thousands of jump flights going on around the country each year, something like this doesn't surprise me in the least bit.
 
Henning said:
I.......(more likely since a jump was occurring at the time) the 182 was ascending.
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Maybe a jump pilot can chime in here.. but...

If 700-900 lbs leave the plane instantly I bet the plane itself will want to climb a few feet or so till the pilot can stop that action...
:dunno:
 
Not a jump pilot, so just a guess. I bet they have a good amount of nose down trim in when loaded. As they depart the 185 or 182, the CG moves forward, possibly putting the aircraft in a descent. Also they are having to add a lot of left rudder as skydivers move out on the strut. A lot of flight control adjustments I would imagine. Looks fun until one adds another plane in close proximity.
 
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This wasn't a random collision this was bad formation flying.
 
N801BH said:
Maybe a jump pilot can chime in here.. but...

If 700-900 lbs leave the plane instantly I bet the plane itself will want to climb a few feet or so till the pilot can stop that action...
:dunno:
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It just all depends on how the skydivers are exiting the aircraft, etc. If you have people just diving out of the thing one after another it's not so bad. But if you end up with four fat guys hanging off your strut all at once that then instantly let go then it's quite noticeable. Generally, in that profile, you're descending in a 182 until they let go. Just not much energy and that's a lot of drag.
 
So the lesson is to trail high and to the right, not the left (blind spot)?
 
RV10flyer said:
Not a jump pilot, so just a guess. I bet they have a good amount of nose down trim in when loaded. As they depart the 185 or 182, the CG moves forward, possibly putting the aircraft in a descent. Also they are having to add a lot of left rudder as skydivers move out on the strut. A lot of flight control adjustments I would imagine. Looks fun until one adds another plane in close proximity.
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The loss of weight has a much greater effect than the CG change especially after everyone has moved forward to the door.
 
Funny thought came to mind: Doesn't do much good to make all those status calls to Center and the "jumpers away" call if you're just going to run into your own company traffic anyway. ;)
 
Pi1otguy said:
So the lesson is to trail high and to the right, not the left (blind spot)?
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The lesson is that trail has one, and only one, job - maintain visual contact and seperation. Don't look at the passangers, don't try to navigate, don't get destracted, just watch the lead. And if visual contact is lost, break away. Gone. Now. Right or left, high or low, you have to maintain visual contact. Period.
 
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