Medical - Previosue DUI

sanforce said:
this thread is closed imo. Let me know when you guys come to a consensus on how evil/bad/unsafe I am.
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Probably of more importance to you than this thread is the possibility of Dad's wallet being closed when you get in another jam...choose wisely, as the Knight Templar would say.


Trapper John
 
I was on a DUI jury when I lived in Ca. We convicted the driver because he was .03 and had bumped a car at a stop sign. DUI means driving under the influence not driving with .08 or higher. We had no choice by the guide lines the Judge gave us. It was an open and shut case as they say, I felt a little sorry for him until I found out after the trial it was his third in 5 years.
 
Mooneymike said:
I was on a DUI jury when I lived in Ca. We convicted the driver because he was .03 and had bumped a car at a stop sign. DUI means driving under the influence not driving with .08 or higher. We had no choice by the guide lines the Judge gave us. It was an open and shut case as they say, I felt a little sorry for him until I found out after the trial it was his third in 5 years.
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Bingo... The .08 just makes the DA's burden of proof a lot easier to meet. Absent that, they have to prove impairment.
 
The abbreviations DWI, OWI, DUI, etc., mean different things in different states, including the I in one standing for "impaired" and in another standing for "influence." However, from an FAA perspective, it doesn't matter which one it is. If you were arrested on an offense involving a motor vehicle and either alcohol or drugs, it's reportable on your 8500-8, no matter which word it is or what happens thereafter. Further, if you were sent to an alcohol or drug course as a result of something that happened while you were driving (whether you were arrested or not), that is also a mandatory report.
 
AuntPeggy said:
If you believe you can safely handle 3, 4, or 5 beers and then drive safely, please consider getting more help.
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There are people that can handle 3 beers and drive. Would I want to ride in their back seat if they chugged 3 beers in 40 seconds, waited 15 minutes, then wanting to go drive? No.

There are folks that can handle drinking three beers over a reasonable time frame and safely operate a vehicle UNDER the limit. I'd have no issue ridding in their backseat.
 
Alright everyone, sorry for being immature and handling this thread terribly. I understand the dangers of drinking and driving. I don't want to lose the ability to fly a plane before I even have it. I don't want the added financial stress or more of the baggage that comes along with drinking & driving. (I had to mention it, for the second time in a week, while registering for the FE tonight)

My DUI was over 5 years ago when I was 17. I was young(er) a dumb, and there is no reason for me to continue acting like that. I can't say that I'll never drink and drive again, but I will promise to limit it to 3 drinks or fewer. I know that wont be perfect in some of your eyes, but it is well within the legal limits & I personally feel it is a safe number.

Additionally, I really don't want to **** any of you off. You've all been members here for a long time & I'm just joining in on the fun. I'd like to keep it that way...

SO, sorry for having a bad attitude (yes I admit it) and twisting this thread into a place it should not have gone.
 
sanforce said:
no... I'm not kidding & I believe my attitude is fine. I don't believe it's bad to have 3 or 4 beers and drive.
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Whooaaa. Why in the world are you spending so much effort here on
justifying your drinking? That's scarey. Alcohol in any amount alters
your judgement and perception. Period. You can use all the online
calculators and other stuff you want to find that line between
busted and not busted.

Flying and driving are serious and are best done without any
impairment at all.

RT
 
sanforce said:
...I will promise to limit it to 3 drinks or fewer. I know that wont be perfect in some of your eyes, but it is well within the legal limits & I personally feel it is a safe number.
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As I said in post #24, if you want to find out how acceptable that is to the FAA or an airline, just tell that to the AME or the interviewer when you explain the DUI. If that makes you uncomfortable, then maybe you need to change your habits.
 
Ron Levy said:
As I said in post #24, if you want to find out how acceptable that is to the FAA or an airline, just tell that to the AME or the interviewer when you explain the DUI. If that makes you uncomfortable, then maybe you need to change your habits.
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Ron, I'm talking about driving here. I would never fly with any alcohol present in my blood.

I was also not really asked to explain my DUI to the AME, he glanced over it and said it won't be a problem.
 
sanforce said:
Ron, I'm talking about driving here...
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Trapper John
 
sanforce said:
Ron, I'm talking about driving here. I would never fly with any alcohol present in my blood.
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It's a pattern of behaviour that the FAA's looking for. A casual disregard for the dangers of driving after drinking makes it statistically more likely that you will do the same with an aircraft.
 
sanforce said:
Ron, I'm talking about driving here. I would never fly with any alcohol present in my blood.

I was also not really asked to explain my DUI to the AME, he glanced over it and said it won't be a problem.
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Despite all the efforts of others posting here, it seems you just don't get it. That's too bad.
 
So none of you have ever gone to dinner, had a glass or two of wine, and then gone home? I find that hard to believe.
 
sanforce said:
I was originally asking a simple medical question regarding paperwork. Now I'm getting bashed for saying that I will drink and drive UNDER the legal limit. I thought 4 beers might put me over, and I was simply saying that I feel 4 beers is fine to drive on. Turns out I can have 5 in a single hour, based on that calculator, and still be legal. Maybe I should get a breathalyzer and test my actual limit?

Regardless, I'm sticking to my original point of a few drinks at dinner and then driving home is not a problem. If it was, then the legal limit would be .00 % BAC. It's not.
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no, you're not - you're hearing people express concern because you said that you would use YOUR limits, even though they might be over the legal limit. See below:

sanforce said:
Now, don't think that I plan on getting another or that I am reckless enough to get wasted and drive. I'm not. However, I'm 23 years old and I have no problem with have some drinks with friends and then driving home. I know my limits, which are not excessive, but they could be over the limit.
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And it's the attitude of not caring about the law and regs that concerns us - not whether you're legally drunk after x number of beers. It's the ATTITUDE that's the problem, NOT the specifics of your body chemistry.
 
etsisk said:
And it's the attitude of not caring about the law and regs that concerns us - not whether you're legally drunk after x number of beers. It's the ATTITUDE that's the problem, NOT the specifics of your body chemistry.
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My concern is with the attitude that "Legal=Safe" espoused by the calculator of how many beers he can have without being over .08.

That's the kind of attitude that gets a guy who gets his ink-still-wet PP in a C-152, loading up an Archer he's never been near before with passengers to 1 pound shy of MGW and launching into 1000/3 at night and going scud running to an airport where he has calculated 46 minutes of fuel reserves to get to. Everything there is 100% legal.
 
etsisk said:
And it's the attitude of not caring about the law and regs that concerns us - not whether you're legally drunk after x number of beers. It's the ATTITUDE that's the problem, NOT the specifics of your body chemistry.
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Sorry etsisk, it was the wrong attitude to bring to the forum. I know the laws and regs are in place for safety and I should not be cavalier with them. But the laws state that it is alright to drink and drive under a certain BAC limit. I honestly thought .08 would be reached after 2 beers, and I was trying to get the point across that I would feel fine to drive after 4 or 5. I should have written that out, because the way it looks to you guys is "Oh, I'm not drunk after 10. I should go drive my truck!" Which is honestly not my attitude at all when it comes to this subject.

So, I'll be more mindful of the ways I present my views in the future.
 
sanforce said:
Sorry etsisk, it was the wrong attitude to bring to the forum. I know the laws and regs are in place for safety and I should not be cavalier with them. But the laws state that it is alright to drink and drive under a certain BAC limit. I honestly thought .08 would be reached after 2 beers, and I was trying to get the point across that I would feel fine to drive after 4 or 5. I should have written that out, because the way it looks to you guys is "Oh, I'm not drunk after 10. I should go drive my truck!" Which is honestly not my attitude at all when it comes to this subject.

So, I'll be more mindful of the ways I present my views in the future.
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Respectfully, you're not getting it. You're saying "The law says .08, so that's what's safe." That's categorically false. There are plenty of things that are legal but not safe, and driving at .07 is one of them.
 
Whos fault will it be when you get your next one? I know I won't be able to muster much sympathy for you after reading your comments here.
 
Try listening or reading about the next few vehical accidents you hear about. They will often say if the person was over the legal limit, but more often they will say that Alcohol was a factor. You have been given a second chance. Now if you drink that one beer and get in an Serious accident pulling out of the parking lot, I don't think it really matters if you are .01% or .08%. Even Sober (no alcohol) people cause accidents, Every % increases the odds some, but only a little will seriously impact the perception of who is at fault in an accident.

Remember that just becuase it was Legal does not mean it is safe. You can do everything perfectly by the rules and still end up with a bent airplane and suspended certificate.

Brian
 
This whole string is one big "Ruh Roh, Rorge".

The OP is much more sophisticated at age 23 and may have figured out how to avoid a second DUI. But he has not figured out that alcohol and vehicles, of any kind don't mix.

May he be granted that insight, before something terrible occurs.
 
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Ron, I'm talking about driving here. I would never fly with any alcohol present in my blood.
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Never say never when ETOH is involved.

Just to be on the safe side, since you insist on continuing to drink and drive if I send you a PM with a release to have access to your autopsy report when your reckless behavior catches up with you and should it happen in an aircraft, would you be terribly offended?
 
Mooneymike said:
Whos fault will it be when you get your next one? I know I won't be able to muster much sympathy for you after reading your comments here.
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God forbid, if that happens, I wont be asking for sympathy. I'm confident that it wont happen though, especially after discussing this issue throughout this thread.

brcase said:
Remember that just becuase it was Legal does not mean it is safe. You can do everything perfectly by the rules and still end up with a bent airplane and suspended certificate.
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Roger that. Even if I'm not 100% safe in every part of my life, I do want to be extremely safe when it comes aviation. I plan on continuing my education long after I finish the PPL certificate for that very reason.
bbchien said:
May he be granted that insight, before something terrible occurs.
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You guys have definitely helped with that. I know all 23 years of my life doesn't equate to tons of experience... but I'm not that naive to how things work. Thanks for putting up with this devolving thread in your section Dr.

SteveinMichigan said:
Just to be on the safe side, since you insist on continuing to drink and drive if I send you a PM with a release to have access to your autopsy report when your reckless behavior catches up with you and should it happen in an aircraft, would you be terribly offended?
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:nonod: ... I have to decline. Just so I'm not jinxed.
 
I have to decline. Just so I'm not jinxed.
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You do get the fact that it wasn't so much a serious request as a bluntly worded warning from someone who has lost a couple of friends from high school because of exactly that attitude you espoused? I mean, c'mon, you can't possibly be that stupid and I don't want to lose anyone else like that again.
 
SteveinMichigan said:
Just to be on the safe side, since you insist on continuing to drink and drive if I send you a PM with a release to have access to your autopsy report when your reckless behavior catches up with you and should it happen in an aircraft, would you be terribly offended?
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Nah. Send one my way.
 
sanforce said:
So none of you have ever gone to dinner, had a glass or two of wine, and then gone home? I find that hard to believe.
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It speaks volumes that this went totally unanswered.

A 23 year old may have some misguided priorities but I dare say most of us were exactly where he is when we were his age. Hell, when I was in high school in the '70's, we had keg parties in the city park. A couple of decades of puritan legislation cannot eliminate a few thousand years of cultural activity. (note: I'm not defending drinking and driving with that statement, I'm simply stating that drinking has long been a part of many cultures and religions and it can't be legislated away).

Two side notes:

.08 is ridiculously low, not high. All it does is makes criminals out of folks who want to have a glass of wine or two with dinner.

SkyHog said:
Legality vs. stupidity.

Its stupid to text and drive. But it sure is fun.
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But IT'S DANGEROUS and that doesn't make it morally acceptable regardless of whether it's legal or not. I'm sure some people would say it's fun to drive while intoxicated also.
Anyone who texts or talks on their cell phone while driving is living in a glass house. Both activities have been shown to be just as dangerous as driving under the influence and considering those facts I don't think your jail time would be any less should you kill someone and it can be proven that you were on the phone or texting.
 
sanforce said:
So none of you have ever gone to dinner, had a glass or two of wine, and then gone home? I find that hard to believe.
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timwinters said:
It speaks volumes that this went totally unanswered.
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1. It is a lame attempt to draw the question away from the OP.
2. It is specious. Certainly, there must be at least one person who has had a glass of wine and then gone home. What does that prove?
3. I don't drink and drive.
 
sanforce said:
So none of you have ever gone to dinner, had a glass or two of wine, and then gone home? I find that hard to believe.
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Ok, to answer the question, I have done so a grand total of Once in 44 years, and that was 17 years ago. And even then I was rather upset with my designated driver for letting me do so.

Brian
 
AuntPeggy said:
2. It is specious. Certainly, there must be at least one person who has had a glass of wine and then gone home. What does that prove?
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Certainly we don't want to be encouraging people to drink and drive but to say that it doesn't happen often is being blind, or maybe the people who have posted in this thread hang out with a different group than I do. I would say the majority of the people I know will have a drink (one or two) and then drive home. I don't because I'm medically allergic to alcohol and can't metabolize it properly. I didn't figure that out until I was in my 30s though and before that I know there were instances when I drank and drove.
 
Well I can say I have NEVER gone to dinner, consumed an alcoholic beverage, and driven home. What I can not say is, I got stupid drunk in a bar and drove home, but I learn from my mistakes. My mistake was thinking I could go to the bar with friends and quit after 3-4 beers, so I speak from experience.
 
Mooneymike said:
My mistake was thinking I could go to the bar with friends and quit after 3-4 beers, so I speak from experience.
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And I CAN go to the bar or dinner and have one or two (not three or four) and quit and go home. So, there are experiences out there that are different from your own.

I will not drive with over two beers in my gut...period. If I have over two beers I call a cab. Cabs are cheap. DWI's are expensive...or worse.

AuntPeggy said:
What does that prove?
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That there seem to be quite a few "holier than thou" hypocrites here (including those that talk on the phone or text while driving). I wasn't going to put it in such terms but since you asked...
 
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timwinters said:


Anyone who texts or talks on their cell phone while driving is living in a glass house. Both activities have been shown to be just as dangerous as driving under the influence and considering those facts I don't think your jail time would be any less should you kill someone and it can be proven that you were on the phone or texting.
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You forgot "fatigued" in that list. Just as dangerous as the other conditions listed; just more difficult to test for. I don't think that someone who caused an injury or death while fatigued would be dealt with as harshly as any of the above, however, because it doesn't have the socially unacceptable context of the others. (I'm of course speaking of on average. I'm certain someone could find isolated incidents where fatigue was cited as a cause and the defendant was treated harshly.)
 
AuntPeggy said:
1. It is a lame attempt to draw the question away from the OP.
2. It is specious. Certainly, there must be at least one person who has had a glass of wine and then gone home. What does that prove?
3. I don't drink and drive.
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timwinters said:
And I CAN go to the bar or dinner and have one or two (not three or four) and quit and go home. So, there are experiences out there that are different from your own.

I will not drive with over two beers in my gut...period. If I have over two beers I call a cab. Cabs are cheap. DWI's are expensive...or worse.

That there seem to be quite a few "holier than thou" hypocrites here (including those that talk on the phone or text while driving). I wasn't going to put it in such terms but since you asked...
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Are you speaking of me?

I don't see any hypocrites in this thread. Those who drink and drive have not been calling the OP to task.
 
AuntPeggy said:
Are you speaking of me?

I don't see any hypocrites in this thread. Those who drink and drive have not been calling the OP to task.
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No, he's speaking of me, and my joking comment earlier about texting and driving. Somehow, he lacks the capacity to understand the difference between being drunk and sending a 2 second text message.

1 Clue, Tim: Sending a text message only lasts a few seconds. Being ****faced lasts the entire drive.
 
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