Measles?

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steingar said:
The problem is many of these diseases can have adverse outcomes up to and including death. Children are far better off getting vaccines than getting over it all at once. Moreover, many are serious if caught by adults if they haven't been vaccinated or had the illness.
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Roger that. I had chickenpox as an adult. I was sicker than a dog.
 
nddons said:
Roger that. I had chickenpox as an adult. I was sicker than a dog.
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Hence why the chicken pox vaccine is a logical one for adults. For kids? NFW
 
nddons said:
I'm not sure Jenny McCarthy's idiocy caused this outbreak. On the other hand, a president letting 90,000 undocumented, unvaccinated illegal alien children into the country might just cause an epidemic.
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What on Earth makes you think these children aren't vaccinated? :dunno: The WHO have been running these vaccinations globally, and people pretty much comply voluntarily with great thanks.
 
steingar said:
Do you wear shoulder harnesses in our car? Oh, heavens, where's the risk! Do you do a careful preflight of your aircraft? Where's the risk?

Sorry, it is plain old stupid to take a risk you don't need, unless that risk gives you some sort of special satisfaction. I admit riding motorcycles and flying aircraft are risk prone activities, but they bring with them pleasure and satisfaction. I fail to see the pleasure and satisfaction of foregoing vaccines. All I really see are people getting sick who really don't have to. And if you are really in favor of that I doubt strongly you'll have the sympathies of many, especially those who have or have had children. I can't imagine the parent who wants their children to be ill.
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Like a true, knee pad lefty, because YOU THINK so, EVERYBODY MUST be forced to agree.

And because leftists are so willing to bend over and be, think, do whatever they're told, everybody MUST BE FORCED to bend over with you.

got it, as usual, nothing but the SOS
 
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:rofl: It doesn't really matter where truth comes from, it's still truth. Personally though, I believe people should be encouraged to die of their own stupidity and that safety should be optional with the equipment required available.
 
About one in 1000 kids who gets measles will die. (http://www.cdc.gov/measles/about/complications.html)

The dead ones don't get to come on this forum and explain how they had measles and it was no big deal. Only the ones for whom it was no big deal get to do that. So, stop with the personal testimonials, they are worthless.

The fatality rate of the vaccine is less than one in one million. So, the treatment has a benefit ratio of 1000 to 1 (or more), just when it comes to death. I can pretty much promise every one of you that you have never had a medical intervention with a benefit ratio that good except for your vaccines.

So, newsflash, if you think vaccines are a bad deal medically, you should be refusing any and all medical treatments for the rest of your life. Anything else is hypocrisy.
 
pilot1956 said:
So, newsflash, if you think vaccines are a bad deal medically, you should be refusing any and all medical treatments for the rest of your life. Anything else is hypocrisy.
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Newsflash this how you and all the SCIENTISTS destroy civilization. Tell you what you should just listen to me and go running nakid through traffic. Because I said so and I have superior educational credentials to you.
 
ClimbnSink said:
Newsflash this how you and all the SCIENTISTS destroy civilization. Tell you what you should just listen to me and go running nakid through traffic. Because I said so and I have superior educational credentials to you.
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Exactly, people should be encouraged to die of their own stupidity and take their progeny with them. All this Health and Safety legislation does nothing but bring down the species.
 
Greg, you are entitled to you own opinions, but you are not entitled to your own facts.

If vaccines are a bad idea because they have side effects well, guess what, so does every medical treatment you have ever taken. It's just that vaccination has more benefit and fewer side effects than virtually any other medical intervention.

Sorry that preventing serious disease is your idea of destroying civilization. I think that the failure to understand evidence is pretty bad for civilization.

Good thing no scientists or educated people designed the airplanes you fly.
 
Henning said:
:rofl: It doesn't really matter where truth comes from, it's still truth. Personally though, I believe people should be encouraged to die of their own stupidity and that safety should be optional with the equipment required available.
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18 month old kids dont have the capacity to decide whether they want to die of their own stupidity, the decisions have to be made for them.

As for the parents, yes your kid has only a small chance of dying from measles, but your kid not being immunized may kill off some other kid at school who is immunosuppressed due to treatment for cancer or rheumatoid arthritis.

Death from measles is uncommon and only one of the reasons we immunize against it. Measles encephalitis is one of the avoidable causes for mental retardation, vision loss and hearing loss.
 
I got em, my kid got them, I don't have a problem with vaccines. It is your attitude though that creates the anti-vaccine people. And will destroy civilization. That is what I have a problem with. Appeal to scientific authority has been abused(err sold) and is now suspect, for everything.
pilot1956 said:
Greg, you are entitled to you own opinions, but you are not entitled to your own facts.

If vaccines are a bad idea because they have side effects well, guess what, so does every medical treatment you have ever taken. It's just that vaccination has more benefit and fewer side effects than virtually any other medical intervention.

Sorry that preventing serious disease is your idea of destroying civilization. I think that the failure to understand evidence is pretty bad for civilization.

Good thing no scientists or educated people designed the airplanes you fly.
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weilke said:
18 month old kids dont have the capacity to decide whether they want to die of their own stupidity, the decisions have to be made for them.

As for the parents, yes your kid has only a small chance of dying from measles, but your kid not being immunized may kill off some other kid at school who is immunosuppressed due to treatment for cancer or rheumatoid arthritis.

Death from measles is uncommon and only one of the reasons we immunize against it. Measles encephalitis is one of the avoidable causes for mental retardation, vision loss and hearing loss.
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That's ok, the fruit doesn't fall far from the tree. If the parent are both that stupid, oh well too bad for the kid, Darwin at work here. They're like Doritos, we always make more.
 
Henning said:
That's ok, the fruit doesn't fall far from the tree. If the parent are both that stupid, oh well too bad for the kid, Darwin at work here. They're like Doritos, we always make more.
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What a dumb comment.
 
Funny, I have an "attitude" about drunk drivers, too. I guess that makes them my fault.
 
pilot1956 said:
Greg, you are entitled to you own opinions, but you are not entitled to your own facts.

If vaccines are a bad idea because they have side effects well, guess what, so does every medical treatment you have ever taken. It's just that vaccination has more benefit and fewer side effects than virtually any other medical intervention.

Sorry that preventing serious disease is your idea of destroying civilization. I think that the failure to understand evidence is pretty bad for civilization.

Good thing no scientists or educated people designed the airplanes you fly.
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AND It's None Of Your Business what everybody else is allowed to think. Just because you have an opinion doesn;t mean it's one size fits all, unless you're a brain number lib, without an independent thought to your name.
 
FC - thanks for that apparently random rant. Think what you want.

Just remember, even you think that my right to swing my arms wildly ends at the tip of your nose. Same goes for your preventable infectious diseases.
 
pilot1956 said:
FC - thanks for that apparently random rant. Think what you want.

Just remember, even you think that my right to swing my arms wildly ends at the tip of your nose. Same goes for your preventable infectious diseases.
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Oh what horse****
 
pilot1956 said:
Just remember, even you think that my right to swing my arms wildly ends at the tip of your nose. Same goes for your preventable infectious diseases.
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Big difference since one chooses definitively to throw a punch.

If I've received a vaccine and get a disease anyway, then who can I sue? I'm sure the many people who got the flu vaccine this season and still got the flu would like to know the answer to that.
 
Sure am glad our school system requires vaccinations to attend.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk
 
TMetzinger said:
Sure am glad our school system requires vaccinations to attend.
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In most states there are exemptions you can receive including on philosophical grounds.
 
Not here, they can take their differences to private or homeschools

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk
 
Any pilot who encourages the idea of forcing people into doing something based on its potential effect on others should think about this:

Just wait until you hear all the people cheering that flying small planes is now banned on the basis one might crash into someone else's house.
 
TMetzinger said:
Not here, they can take their differences to private or homeschools
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On the one hand, images of the "Inoculation Police" barging in with forced immunization is pretty disturbing. My mental image would be:

Inselian.jpg


On the other hand, one must realize that each and every child NOT vaccinated who could be may provide a disease vector to other children who cannot be vaccinated, leading to illness and possible hospitalization of others, and even the rare death, through no choice of their own.

In addition, if everyone cooperated, there's a good chance at least some of these childhood diseases could be totally eliminated, as smallpox was.

So, my humane solution is to set up "Non-Vax Relocation Camps". Any parent who did not want their child immunized would have to send them there, to live out their lives with other unvaccinated children, except as provided below. Provide schooling and amenities, including medical care targeted to nearly extinct childhood diseases which will inevitably flourish in the camps. And provide a path to "graduation", once the child has been through the full course of childhood diseases and can demonstrate natural immunity - if they survive, of course.

Perfect solution, IMHO!
 
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There are always risks in life, the risks associated with immunization are about the lowest risks we deal with in our society.

There was an Aussie doc who was dealing a lot with the Aborigines where they were having a high reaction rate to vaccination, MMR specifically IIRC. He found it linked to vitamin C deficiency and when they started giving the kids supplemental C a week before immunization their reaction rates dropped to next to nothing. Something to keep in mind Ted.
 
Henning said:
There was an Aussie doc who was dealing a lot with the Aborigines where they were having a high reaction rate to vaccination, MMR specifically IIRC. He found it linked to vitamin C deficiency and when they started giving the kids supplemental C a week before immunization their reaction rates dropped to next to nothing. Something to keep in mind Ted.
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We give our kids extra Vitamin C before immunizations for that reason.

Agree the risks are very low, probably similar to a plane crashing into your house, hence my point. Whether or not you agree with the decision, we all do something that a good part of society frowns upon.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
We give our kids extra Vitamin C before immunizations for that reason.

Agree the risks are very low, probably similar to a plane crashing into your house, hence my point. Whether or not you agree with the decision, we all do something that a good part of society frowns upon.
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Yeah, but immunization is one of those things where you don't just look at the risk but the result as well, and this is a multi risk matrix. When you work it all out, no matter which direction you approach the question, the balance always falls clearly on the side of vaccination.

The difference in the risk between not vaccinating and flying is that flying has a benefit, not vaccinating has no benefit. That is why people treat he non vaccination crowd like idiots, because they are taking a foolish gamble where they stand to gain nothing.
 
Look at it from the other side. The perceived benefit is not having side effects from the vaccines (which do occur).

It is hard to draw comparisons, I agree. But ultimately it is a matter of putting something into your body. I do not think we should mandate that.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Look at it from the other side. The perceived benefit is not having side effects from the vaccines (which do occur).

It is hard to draw comparisons, I agree. But ultimately it is a matter of putting something into your body. I do not think we should mandate that.
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The perceived benefit is insubstantial, it is just fear playing out. Your child will face much greater dangers very day, get over it.

I'm not sure which vaccination specifically you refer to to avoid, but I don't really much care. The odds either way that your child will die as the result of being either vaccinated or not vaccinated from any one of these diseases in inconsequentially low when viewed in the light of other risks faced on a daily basis. Basically any individuals decision to vaccinate or not vaccinate is inconsequential.

However at the societal level, this changes. While you will be unlikely to be cost a loss by not vaccinating, if enough people in a society do not vaccinate, society will incur losses, and there will be losses within the ranks of those who choose to vaccinate where it either didn't work, or they are otherwise compromised in health and this took them over the edge.

When we stand nothing quantifiable to gain at the personal level, and have the potential to add to the loss in society, then we have the moral duty to act in the interest of society. The Good of society out weighs the needs of the Individual, that is why Christ hung on the cross, that was his message. Christ was a communist.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Any pilot who encourages the idea of forcing people into doing something based on its potential effect on others should think about this:

Just wait until you hear all the people cheering that flying small planes is now banned on the basis one might crash into someone else's house.
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Not forcing.. they have other options... but apparently they can send their kid unvaccinated if they jump through hoops.

Sent from my VS980 4G using Tapatalk
 
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I only vaguely recall lining up for sugar cubes with drops of the Salk vaccine for polio on them.

And, by doing so, virtually eliminating polio in this country.

I also vaguely recall sticking dimes into cardboard inserts for the March of Dimes and the images of iron lungs and children in leg braces.

Had there been the same spoiled brat anti-vax movement then, we might still be fighting polio outbreaks in this country.

Living in a society involves trade offs. This one is a no-brainer for any rational, informed adult. And it's the obligation of those rational, informed adults to keep the irrational, poorly informed ones in line.

Like these:

Anti-Vax%2B-%2BDifferent%2BTypes.jpg
 
Henning, if you read what I wrote my only problem is the CDC's retarded schedule.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Henning, if you read what I wrote my only problem is the CDC's retarded schedule.
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Yeah, I understand, and I don't disagree however I don't see where you are linking that retarded schedule to a quantifiable risk.:dunno: I am not up on it so you may have information I don't. Have we been having a problem as a result of it, or are you objecting on principle?
 
denverpilot said:
http://youtu.be/k76IGLi6jWI
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I was waiting for someone to post that :D

The fact that some people don't vaccinate bothers me. The fact that some people I know of -actually- rely on "faith healing" through prayer alone who withhold medical care from their children bothers me a lot. To me it seems like an incredibly cruel thing to do to your kids, regardless of your religious/spiritual beliefs :mad2:
 
leftists have done such a good job letting the government raise their children, that they certainly know everything there is to know about raising everybody elses.'
 
The MC has voted to close this thread. If you want to dish out political snark, do so in the Spin Zone.
 
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