MBNA Troubles

Richard

Richard

Final Approach
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Ack...city life
A guy issued to me a check in an amount over $10,000 which is my mistake 'cause I usually keep them under $10K. But the real problem is the check is from an AOPA MBNA account and MBNA is basically giving my bank the bird.

Just now I got a call from my bank saying they will not honor the check and saying they have spent too much time trying to contact MBNA. MBNA has been playing games with my bank for a week--won't take phone calls, won't say if funds are available, won't supply fax number, refuse to confirm or deny such an account exists, endless shuffle from one CSR to another.

My bank said they HATE doing any business with MBNA.

The maker of the check is out of town, due to return Sat.
 
Not a lawyer Richard. BUT if I remeber correctly now banks only have 5 or 3 can't remember business days to clear a check. Regardless of whether they like MBNA or not.
Might want to remind them of the FEDERAL law regarding check clearing now.

Mark
 
How many days do they have to return an nsf check?
Several years back I had one returned nsf after SEVEN months!!!!!
I flew into that bank so fast they were reaching for the silent alarms.
They finally ate it but I could never forgive them.
 
RotaryWingBob said:
Cause maybe you don't want the IRS to know?
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No, not the IRS. More like the onerous DHS. I am legit but no sense in borrowing trouble, baby!

One other thing, I try to set up a payment schedule with the final payment being much smaller. That to lessen exposure.

I just remembered another reason: banks can and do put extended holds on larger amounts. The larger the amount and that it is a non-local bank can result in a hold of at least nine days and in some cases, indefinite until your bank determines to their satisfaction that the check is legit. In the meantime, someone, not me, is collecting interest and has control of my money. I remember this from having a 28 day hold on a bank draft of almost $50K payable to me. I know I'm mixing up drafts and checks but it comes down to who has control of my money.
 
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My bank just called to tell me that MBNA put the hold on the check. They said that they spoke with 5 different people at MBNA and each had a different tale to tell. I'm inclined to believe my bank but whether that trust is misplaced is not my concern right now. I'm out the door to make a transfer in cash to a different account. Call it a paper trail.
 
Sounds fishy, businesses in this country make transactions by the thousands every day for many times that amount.
 
Re: Banks are fun

Let'sgoflying! said:
Sounds fishy, businesses in this country make transactions by the thousands every day for many times that amount.
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Yeah, it does sound fishy. Here's my take on your second comment: it's like a mid-air. There are thousands of flights every day, but it only takes one.

Today I also found out the reason why I couldn't balance one of my checking accounts. I have authorized one automatic debit for a monthly truck payment on that account. I found out today that company has made 6 (six) separate debits since the 17th of this month. No, it wasn't in arrears. Tomorrow I'm gonna' spend some face time with their manager to explain themselves. That puts me in the spot of having to ask them questions--asking questions is like being sent to the penalty box with these people.

But the good news is I'm living free in America so I should count my blessings.
 
Guess I don't understand why you're not doing wire transfers for amount of this size. I move a lot larger amounts than this. Use a corporate check or wire. Why was this check so unusual?
 
Dave Siciliano said:
Guess I don't understand why you're not doing wire transfers for amount of this size. I move a lot larger amounts than this. Use a corporate check or wire.
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I've done this in the past, why not this time? I dunno' 'cept the guy cut me a check and I didn't question it. My bad, I simply looked at who it was made out to and the amount in writing. I was in a hurry, the maker was in a hurry, I didn't even think about it.

Why was this check so unusual?
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Beats me, but I plan on looking into it. My bank kept calling me saying they were getting the run around and conflicting info from MBNA.

EDIT: Maybe because it was drawn on an account held by a living trust which the maker was a trustee, would that make it unusual?
 
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Trustee account shouldn't be much of an issue. I have a living trust I'm the successor for. Haven't had this issue.

Do have to say, there is not love lost between me and MBNA. Aren't they a finance company? Do they also have a bank also? Don't understand why Federal Banking regs don't apply.

Do you know anyone at the Federal Reserve? I would call a friend that works there I know and ask if it were me.

There is also and oversight entity one might want to call and make an inquiry to or drop a written complaint do. I'd tell the writer of the check of the difficulty this caused so he/she is aware of what a great organization is handling his funds.

Dave
 
Possible Reason

Richard said:
I've done this in the past, why not this time? I dunno' 'cept the guy cut me a check and I didn't question it. My bad, I simply looked at who it was made out to and the amount in writing. I was in a hurry, the maker was in a hurry, I didn't even think about it.

Beats me, but I plan on looking into it. My bank kept calling me saying they were getting the run around and conflicting info from MBNA.

EDIT: Maybe because it was drawn on an account held by a living trust which the maker was a trustee, would that make it unusual?
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I disagree with Dave, Living Trust may very well be the issue. Little different having one vs knowing the legal ramifications of administering one from the institution side.

One way the Living Trust may come into play is if the writer of the check violated a term of the living trust, and maybe the holder of the trust funds caught it.

If that is the case, the bank can't disclose that to you, nor will anyone else. It is a private matter in which you may be screwed.

I would issue a demand for payment to the person who owes you, in writing, and demand either a wire transfer or a certified check.

Living Trusts contain terms whether the trustee is the maker of the trust or the successor trustee. If the one who paid you is the successor trustee, they have explicit instructions for what the money can be used for, and the bank or financial entity can refuse to let the check go through if it is a violation of the trust or even if they suspect it is a violation.

This may explain the run around, and why you are not getting an answer. If my guess is right, they will never tell you, and they don't have to. Their recourse is to protect the trust as a fiduciary responsibility. Could be MBNA is actually doing their job here. And no I don't have any accounts or relationships with MBNA.

Your recourse is to have the debtor pay you with good funds.

QUESTIONS TO ASK YOUR DEBTOR:

1) Are you the successor trustee on the living trust subject to the conditions of the trust?

2) Or are you maker of the trust?

3) Did your payment to me violate the trust and is that the reason I can't get paid?

4) What time today or tomorrow will you wire me the funds. (get your wire info from your financial institution)

There, how's that? :)

Hope this Helps,
Joe
aka Sonar5
 
Dave Siciliano said:
Trustee account shouldn't be much of an issue. I have a living trust I'm the successor for. Haven't had this issue.

Do have to say, there is not love lost between me and MBNA. Aren't they a finance company? Do they also have a bank also? Don't understand why Federal Banking regs don't apply.

Do you know anyone at the Federal Reserve? I would call a friend that works there I know and ask if it were me.

There is also and oversight entity one might want to call and make an inquiry to or drop a written complaint do. I'd tell the writer of the check of the difficulty this caused so he/she is aware of what a great organization is handling his funds.

Dave
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Yeah, I'm speculating, I really don't think it should make a difference. My bank gave me multiple contact names & numbers for MBNA but I don't have time for that. My only recourse to get to the bottom of all this was to pressure my bank--something I didn't like because I've been with them a long time and they have provided great service in the past. I did refer to specific parts of CFR12 though... I think banks laws do apply but I think someone was playing loose.

My friend, the maker of the check, is due back on Sat for our regularly scheduled hanger flying. You betcha', he'll hear all about it.

I'll do a 'net search to get the contact info for the oversight committee...

BTW: why would you think I know anyone at the Fed Reserve?
 
Re: Possible Reason

Thanks Joe:

That's very informative. Guess I was just thinking of my case and not thinking about someone that could be in violation of the trust agreement. Duh!

There are so many things we as a society and business folks pay for because of folks that don't do thinks correctly; deliberately or by error. Don't want to start down that road!
 
Richard said:
Yeah, I'm speculating, I really don't think it should make a difference. My bank gave me multiple contact names & numbers for MBNA but I don't have time for that. My only recourse to get to the bottom of all this was to pressure my bank--something I didn't like because I've been with them a long time and they have provided great service in the past. I did refer to specific parts of CFR12 though... I think banks laws do apply but I think someone was playing loose.

My friend, the maker of the check, is due back on Sat for our regularly scheduled hanger flying. You betcha', he'll hear all about it.

I'll do a 'net search to get the contact info for the oversight committee...

BTW: why would you think I know anyone at the Fed Reserve?
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Sorry, I was being reflective. I have a friend I would call; in your case, perhaps you could just call and make an inquiry. I've gotten banks motivated before when they were unresponsive, but it isn't fun. And, even though Joe says they don't have to explain, they do owe a good customer some explaination. It may not be highly detailed, but they can give you a general idea where the problem lies without spilling all the beans.

Hate to say this, but just because someone can write out a check doesn't mean the check is good. I'd be very hesitant to take a check for that sum unless I knew someone really well, or whatever they were writing it for wasn't delivered until it cleared. Had a guy ream me out for waiting for a large sum to clear. Guess what; it didn't, and I never heard from him again. Same thing selling a car; cash in hand and we even put a marker to the $100s before giving the guy the keys. Don't want to be in the collection business. Tried it and it doesn't agree with me.

Dave
 
MBNA is now owned by Bank of America. MBNA was spun off of Maryland National Bank about 15 years ago as an independent finance company. To the best of my knowledge, prior to the recent acquisition of MBNA by Bank of America, they were almost strictly in the finance business.

The one other question is this: was the check written against an MBNA credit card account (one of those nasty "convenience checks")? If the amount would go over the credit limit, they might reject it, leaving you stuck.
 
Dave Siciliano said:
/snip/

Hate to say this, but just because someone can write out a check doesn't mean the check is good. I'd be very hesitant to take a check for that sum unless I knew someone really well, or whatever they were writing it for wasn't delivered until it cleared. Had a guy ream me out for waiting for a large sum to clear. Guess what; it didn't, and I never heard from him again. Same thing selling a car; cash in hand and we even put a marker to the $100s before giving the guy the keys. Don't want to be in the collection business. Tried it and it doesn't agree with me.

Dave
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Roger that. For the hurried way it happened that day I do remember thinking I only took the check because; A) he's a friend and we have many mutual friends in a small town; b)he was leaving for one week so would not be able to take possession until the check cleared. Such are the plans of mice and men...

Anyhow, I could absolutely shame him into paying me if I continue to have a problem. Such a tactic works far better than normal collection routines. I had a 1099 contractor who owed me (whole different story there!) for work he had done for me. He refused my every demand until I had enough and called him on a Sunday afternoon. I simply asked him what his pastor would say if he knew... Check for full amount hand delivered next day. Small towns are like that.
 
wsuffa said:
/snip/

The one other question is this: was the check written against an MBNA credit card account (one of those nasty "convenience checks")? If the amount would go over the credit limit, they might reject it, leaving you stuck.
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Hell's bells! Then I would make the accusation that he purposely and willfully wrote a counterfeit check. Make good pronto, buster, or else. No friend does that. We can work something out if needed but what Bill suggests is blatant fraud.
 
Well, let us know what you get worked out. Sounds like you know the guy. I have been in your positions and hated it. A good friend should not do that.

I hope it was unwitting and is promptly corrected.

Dave
 
Richard said:
Hell's bells! Then I would make the accusation that he purposely and willfully wrote a counterfeit check. Make good pronto, buster, or else. No friend does that. We can work something out if needed but what Bill suggests is blatant fraud.
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Hope it's not the case, Richard. I don't know enough of what you have, just offering another thought.

Hope it all works out.
 
One other trick I learned a few years ago that you might try if this cat fight between the banks continues and it is their fault - get the Comptroller of the Currency involved. I did when I had dispute with a bank (not MBNA, name started with Chase) and it was resolved very quickly. They might be able to ignore or bamboozle you, but they cannot play games with the feds. I sent a letter to the chairman of the bank with my case and simply sent a cc copy to the feds. Got a call from the head shed of the bank shortly afterwards and the Comptroller's office followed up to see if I was satisfied with the resolution.
 
Ghery. Yea that's kind of what I was referring to when I said contact a regulatory agency.

Funny how responsive folks can get when there was nothing that could be done before, huh.

Dave
 
It could just be as simple as MBNA is waiting on the account holder (who is out of town) to verify the check. I've had that happen to me before (not w/ MBNA, though).
 
Richard said:
A guy issued to me a check in an amount over $10,000 which is my mistake 'cause I usually keep them under $10K. But the real problem is the check is from an AOPA MBNA account and MBNA is basically giving my bank the bird.

Just now I got a call from my bank saying they will not honor the check and saying they have spent too much time trying to contact MBNA. MBNA has been playing games with my bank for a week--won't take phone calls, won't say if funds are available, won't supply fax number, refuse to confirm or deny such an account exists, endless shuffle from one CSR to another.

My bank said they HATE doing any business with MBNA.

The maker of the check is out of town, due to return Sat.
Click to expand...

I can tell you how I'd handle it. Call your county attorney and request
prosecution for a bad check. You were issued a check which you
accepted in good faith for a due debt. The check failed to clear and
that is a felony at that amount. Request the check back from your
bank stamped "insufficient funds" or whatever and take action. If this
occured across state lines it's a whole new problem for the person who
gave it to you.
 
Roger:

That would certainly be an option, but it's one of the last ones I'd use if this is between small town friends. Once you turn that over to the district attorney's office; it's out of your hands. Same thing when one calls the IRS or another such agency. I know folks that did that and later wished they wouldn't have. Couldn't call the dogs off later.

Also, I've had local prosecuters refuse to pursue small amounts like this. Bigger fish to fry etc. Had someone steal over $40,000 while managing an apartment complex for us. District Attorny wouldn't pursue it. The perp. had no money. I'm sure he would have filed charges and at some point settled and she probably would have gotten probation. No point in it to him. Small county may be different.

Dave
 
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