Marion Indiana Accident

[midwestpa24]

Wow, relying on TCAS instead of using the radio. Just sad.

That is totally negligent, and borderline insane. But I've seen it happen before too, certain professional pilots that get a little complacent.

 

[Velocity173]

No where in the report does it say the pilot was relying on TCAS instead of making a radio call.

 

[dell30rb]

No where in the report does it say the pilot was relying on TCAS instead of making a radio call.

It says that the pilot does not recall making a UNICOM call, but was using his TCAS.

"He stated that he did not recall making a radio call on UNICOM, but did utilize his on board Traffic Collision Avoidance System (TCAS) system while on approach."

 

[Velocity173]

It says that the pilot does not recall making a UNICOM call, but was using his TCAS.

"He stated that he did not recall making a radio call on UNICOM, but did utilize his on board Traffic Collision Avoidance System (TCAS) system while on approach."

Correct, and that’s a big difference vs “relying on TCAS instead of using the radio.” The pilot was utilizing TCAS and didn’t recall making a radio call. He might have made one, just doesn’t recall. He’s got a short term memory but still, he never said he didn’t make one and definitely never said he didn’t make one because he was relying on TCAS.

We could further make false assumptions in that he was using the TCAS vs looking out the window. We have no idea what his scan was. You can darn well bet I use our TCAD a lot when approaching airports/heliports but that doesn’t mean I “rely” on it. I generally recall if I make a CTAF call or not though.

 

[Chicago Bearhawk]

Correct, and that’s a big difference vs “relying on TCAS instead of using the radio.” The pilot was utilizing TCAS and didn’t recall making a radio call. He might have made one, just doesn’t recall. He’s got a short term memgory but still, he never said he didn’t make one and definitely never said he didn’t make one because he was relying on TCAS.

We could further make false assumptions in that he was using the TCAS vs looking out the window. We have no idea what his scan was. You can darn well bet I use our TCAD a lot when approaching airports/heliports but that doesn’t mean I “rely” on it. I generally recall if I make a CTAF call or not though.

Correct, the word ‘rely’ was added by me reading between the lines... and the preliminary report stated ‘utilized’.

Also, the report very carefully chose the phrase “Two of the witnesses stated that they heard the Cessna 150 pilot on runway 15 UNICOM frequency.” - exact quote from The ntsb report. But I see no evidence at all that the c525 pilot was either listening or talking on that frequency.

However I see to pieces of evidence that he was not talking or listening.

1. He did not recall making a call. He did not state that he was monitoring Marion Unicom.
2. He focused his attention on the fact that he had tcas on board (which with Grissom indicating no traffic between you and the airport - listen to the hand off from Grissom above, and no pings on the tcas makes me wonder what was going on in his mind)

We will find out, because “The Cessna 525 was equipped with a cockpit voice recorder (CVR). The CVR was removed and transported to the NTSB Vehicle Recorders Lab, Washington, DC.” Exact quote from the ntsb report. This is now evidence.

Using basic conditional probability and looking at the actions and statements that lead to this event.

Low probability the 525 pilot switched to 122.7 after. The c150 made his radio all for departure. And on switching forgot to make the straight in call.

High probability the 525 pilot either did:
A. Switched to wrong frequency
B. Stayed with Grissom and just focused on the landing relying on Grissom's statement regarding no traffic between you and the airport, coupled with the tcas utilization.

The signs on the runway regarding visibility of cross trafffic were also conspicuously noted in the report.

Finally there is a significant obstical and visibility notam 4 part notam in effect at the time of accident for Marion

 

[denverpilot]

Keep in mind when someone says, “My usual procedure is to monitor CTAF X miles out and make all the usual radio calls... but I don’t recall if I did it.”

Will get shortened to, “Pilot doesn’t recall making any radio calls....” by a poorly written report.

Who knows what mental state the Citation pilot is in, either. “I don’t recall if I did it...” after just having an accident where people were killed, as a form of unreasonable guilt, or just “I don’t know...” is also pretty common.

We shall see what the orange box says.

 

[tawood]

Keep in mind when someone says, “My usual procedure is to monitor CTAF X miles out and make all the usual radio calls... but I don’t recall if I did it.”

Will get shortened to, “Pilot doesn’t recall making any radio calls....” by a poorly written report.

Who knows what mental state the Citation pilot is in, either. “I don’t recall if I did it...” after just having an accident where people were killed, as a form of unreasonable guilt, or just “I don’t know...” is also pretty common.

We shall see what the orange box says.

True...also, when people know they are being recorded, they often are reluctant to say anything definite...for fear of being proven wrong by the recording.

 

[Clip4]

Don’t know if this is just a regional thing, but the number of pilots not using CTAF is increasing. May be those with new technology people o think it is needed.

 

[denverpilot]

Don’t know if this is just a regional thing, but the number of pilots not using CTAF is increasing. May be those with new technology people o think it is needed.

Interesting. An unexpected consequence of FAA claiming ADS-B is a properly designed safety system, perhaps?