Marion Indiana Accident

That’s ashame. Lucky no one in the Citation was injured. Marion was one of the stops for my solo cross country.
 
That could have been bad for the jet as well. Loss of horizontal stab, that must have happened in the runway environment. No way they can control that airplane in flight without it.
 
That was my night XC (dual) and my first XC after getting my license at the Marion Fly-In Cruise-In.
 
Ugh! Be safe out there folks!
 
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I figured that out after I wrote it. That's what scares me about flying, the other guy. I'm very confident in my abilities. And I don't take unnecessary risks. But you can't control what the other guy does. Like not listening to CTAF and taking off on a crossing runway while you are landing.

RIP.
 
orange said:
I figured that out after I wrote it. That's what scares me about flying, the other guy. I'm very confident in my abilities. And I don't take unnecessary risks. But you can't control what the other guy does. Like not listening to CTAF and taking off on a crossing runway while you are landing.

RIP.
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Yeah, obviously the pilots weren’t communicating and coordinating their actions. I tried to pull the recording from LiveATC but that airport is not covered.
 
orange said:
I figured that out after I wrote it. That's what scares me about flying, the other guy. I'm very confident in my abilities. And I don't take unnecessary risks. But you can't control what the other guy does. Like not listening to CTAF and taking off on a crossing runway while you are landing.

RIP.
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If you think flying is bad, try riding a motorcycle!
 
Stingray Don said:
Marion has crossing runways. The article suggests the jet was landing 22 and the 150 was taking off from 15. They must have met at the intersection.

Edit: video at the link below does show the accident occurred near the intersection of the runways.

https://www.theindychannel.com/news...small-planes-crash-at-airport-in-grant-county
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The 150 taking off on 15 makes sense due to winds this afternoon. I’m not understanding why the jet is short of 15 on 4. Marks on right side of 15 don’t make sense to me. I guess that’s why the investigators get paid.
 
Going to be hard for the investigators to know who said what over the CTAF freq. MAY THE people on the 150 Rest In Peace.
 
orange said:
I figured that out after I wrote it. That's what scares me about flying, the other guy. I'm very confident in my abilities. And I don't take unnecessary risks. But you can't control what the other guy does. Like not listening to CTAF and taking off on a crossing runway while you are landing.

RIP.
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You ride a motorcycle or especially a bicycle, you definitely need to watch out for the other guy. In aviation, the overwhelming majority of accidents involve a single aircraft and a single pilot. We are all are own worst enemies.
 
Stingray Don said:
Marion has crossing runways. The article suggests the jet was landing 22 and the 150 was taking off from 15. They must have met at the intersection.

Edit: video at the link below does show the accident occurred near the intersection of the runways.

https://www.theindychannel.com/news...small-planes-crash-at-airport-in-grant-county
Click to expand...

The thing about it though is that it looks like the jet is stopped short of the intersection. So not sure how it hit the jet's tail unless he saw it coming and turned to the right as he was lifting off thinking the jet would go by him and hit the tail.
 
BrianNC said:
The thing about it though is that it looks like the jet is stopped short of the intersection. So not sure how it hit the jet's tail unless he saw it coming and turned to the right as he was lifting off thinking the jet would go by him and hit the tail.
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Reports are that the Jet was landing and stopped or was nearly stopped at the intersection. Wind 140 at 14.

Cessna departed Runway 15 and hit the tail and right nacelle of the Jet, spinning it around, which explains the weirdness of what’s in the background for where it ended up.

Jet was landing on the longer runway with the crosswind. Knocking the tail off didn’t crash the Jet because it was already on the ground. Cessna impacted further down in the direction of Runway 15 with the fatalities.

Intersection collision with only one aircraft in the air.
 
BrianNC said:
The thing about it though is that it looks like the jet is stopped short of the intersection. So not sure how it hit the jet's tail unless he saw it coming and turned to the right as he was lifting off thinking the jet would go by him and hit the tail.
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Jeez, that's rough. In that situation, I may have ended up in exactly the same place. Nearly every bit of vehicle training I've had says that, if it looks like a two-way collision, aim for where the other vehicle is right now. Since you're both in motion, it's basically guaranteed that you won't hit. Got that lesson riding motorcycles, racing cars, and also from my flight instructor. This may be one of the rare times the advice just didn't work out.

Either that, or it could be another item that cars and motorcycles have taught me, though hasn't been in any of my lessons as a pilot, is target fixation. If you're worried about it, you look at it. If you look at it, you go towards it. It's natural. So, that's how you hit the one thing you didn't want to hit. I've had the experience as a motorcyclist, and the mental energy needed to tear yourself away from what you want to avoid is amazingly high until you do it enough times that it's natural. If you want to avoid something, for god's sake, look where you DO want to be, not at the thing that's scaring you.

It'll be impossible to know what was in the deceased pilot's head, of course. Hope more investigation reveals what happened. RIP to them both.
 
denverpilot said:
Reports are that the Jet was landing and stopped or was nearly stopped at the intersection. Wind 140 at 14.

Cessna departed Runway 15 and hit the tail and right nacelle of the Jet, spinning it around, which explains the weirdness of what’s in the background for where it ended up.

Jet was landing on the longer runway with the crosswind. Knocking the tail off didn’t crash the Jet because it was already on the ground. Cessna impacted further down in the direction of Runway 15 with the fatalities.

Intersection collision with only one aircraft in the air.
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...or, the real answer shows up while I'm speculating, and it suddenly makes a lot more sense.

How hard does a 150 have to hit a Citation to spin it around? Wow.
 
Hard to understand how you don't see a large jet on a crossing runway...
 
arnoha said:
...or, the real answer shows up while I'm speculating, and it suddenly makes a lot more sense.

How hard does a 150 have to hit a Citation to spin it around? Wow.
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Push the tail back and the nose off the ground, spins freely on the mains for a moment maybe?
 
denverpilot said:
Reports are that the Jet was landing and stopped or was nearly stopped at the intersection. Wind 140 at 14.

Cessna departed Runway 15 and hit the tail and right nacelle of the Jet, spinning it around, which explains the weirdness of what’s in the background for where it ended up.

Jet was landing on the longer runway with the crosswind. Knocking the tail off didn’t crash the Jet because it was already on the ground. Cessna impacted further down in the direction of Runway 15 with the fatalities.

Intersection collision with only one aircraft in the air.
Click to expand...

Ok. So the jet is at the intersection, 152 lifting off and hit the Cessna in the tail and spins it around. That makes more sense. Although it did neatly spin it around which is kind of odd.

And as @Lndwarrior said, hard to understand how they don't see that until it's too late.
 
overdrive148 said:
Push the tail back and the nose off the ground, spins freely on the mains for a moment maybe?
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Couldn’t tell ya how it actually occurred. Just passing along reports.

There’s also right engine nacelle damage in some of the photos available now, so the Cessna whacked the Citation with quite a bit of mass and velocity if it hit the nacelle and also ripped the tail off.

I’m guessing about Cessna 150 max gross or close since they’re always heavy times Vx airspeed squared...
 
BrianNC said:
Ok. So the jet is at the intersection, 152 lifting off and hit the Cessna in the tail and spin it around. That makes more sense. Although it did neatly spin it around which is kind of odd.

And as @Lndwarrior said, hard to understand how they don't see that until it's too late.
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Other way around. The Citation had just landed. The C-150 started a takeoff and hit it at the runway intersection. That’s my understanding from the other sources anyway.
 
denverpilot said:
Other way around. The Citation had just landed. The C-150 started a takeoff and hit it at the runway intersection. That’s my understanding from the other sources anyway.
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Yeah, that's what I was saying. Apparently it doesn't sound like it though. lol.
 
arnoha said:
...or, the real answer shows up while I'm speculating, and it suddenly makes a lot more sense.

How hard does a 150 have to hit a Citation to spin it around? Wow.
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No skid marks indicating the jet spun around.
 
Clark1961 said:
No skid marks indicating the jet spun around.
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Yeah I can’t see that level of detail on my phone.

For those who might want a picture. KMZZ.

Citation landing 22. C-150 departing 15. Wind 140 at 14.

3bc06a2b02e35c0e097749274626b969.jpg
 
i'm guessing the jet was landing 4 and was stopped prior to the intersection. The 150 hit it in the tail and the right nacelle was damaged as the 150 crashed/burned.
 
Clark1961 said:
i'm guessing the jet was landing 4 and was stopped prior to the intersection. The 150 hit it in the tail and the right nacelle was damaged as the 150 crashed/burned.
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The initial report quoting the coroner said was the jet was landing "from the north" and the 150 was taking off "to the southeast", which if correctly reported suggests runways 22 and 15, respectively (e.g. as Nate has shown it).

If that is the case not difficult to understand why the 150 didn't see the jet as its approach could have been from above to the left and slightly behind, most likely hidden by the high wing if the 150 was aligned with runway 15. He probably didn't see the jet until it came into his field of view as it was finishing its rollout in front of him.
 
Lndwarrior said:
Hard to understand how you don't see a large jet on a crossing runway...
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In a Cessna 150, with the seat fully back (these guys were firefighters) you are sitting directly under the wing. The runway 15 and 22 intersection angle means if the Cessna was lined up with the centreline of 15 for take off it would have been facing slightly away from the approach path for 22. The jet would have been approaching from above left, and slightly behind.
 
GRG55 said:
The initial report quoting the coroner said was the jet was landing "from the north" and the 150 was taking off "to the southeast", which if correctly reported suggests runways 22 and 15, respectively (e.g. as Nate has shown it).

If that is the case not difficult to understand why the 150 didn't see the jet as its approach could have been from above to the left and slightly behind, most likely hidden by the high wing if the 150 was aligned with runway 15. He probably didn't see the jet until it came into his field of view as it was finishing its rollout in front of him.
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The video shows the jet aligned on runway 4. I wouldn't trust a coroner to know about aircraft operations.
 
Clark1961 said:
The video shows the jet aligned on runway 4. I wouldn't trust a coroner to know about aircraft operations.
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I'm going to guess the jet was either spun by the collision, or was otherwise repositioned after the collision. Its location in the photos and video does not make sense. In the direction it is going, it has not entered the intersecting runway yet, and is not inline with the intersecting runway and remains of the Cessna. Perhaps the jet pilots turned around to see the accident, not realizing the extent of the damage to their own aircraft.
 
midwestpa24 said:
I'm going to guess the jet was either spun by the collision, or was otherwise repositioned after the collision. Its location in the photos and video does not make sense. In the direction it is going, it has not entered the intersecting runway yet, and is not inline with the intersecting runway and remains of the Cessna. Perhaps the jet pilots turned around to see the accident, not realizing the extent of the damage to their own aircraft.
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Landing runway 4 makes more sense than "spun around by impact" with no skid marks from said spinning.
 
donjohnston said:
If the brakes were not applied, there wouldn't be skid marks.
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Not true. There will always be scuff and skid marks when a force causes a vehicle to move sideways against it's tires, regardless of brake application. I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night, but I am certified (20 years) as an advanced accident reconstructionist for road-going vehicles.
 
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