Malaysian Airliner missing?

[denverpilot]

There were quite a few Chinese citizens on board. I would expect China to be making noise at this point.

Since when does China value her Citizens? Seriously?

Word out tonight is Malaysia is considering it a hijacking.

China or not, the question now is "Why?"

 

[denverpilot]

If this is true, and I hope to god that it isn't, we are in big trouble. I say this not as a citizen of this country, but as a person of this earth.

Why? We have TSA Agents patting down our genitalia. We are "safe".

Life is big trouble. We're just spoiled.

 

[DavidWhite]

Why? We have TSA Agents patting down our genitalia. We are "safe".

Life is big trouble. We're just spoiled.

If they have a nuke they could kill enough people to make Adolf Hitler look like the biggest goof of amateur hour.

They may very well have the capability to kill millions. Why else would they need an airplane like that?? I sure as hell can't figure it out.

 

[Lindberg]

Word out tonight is Malaysia is considering it a hijacking.

The Malays don't even know which ocean it crashed in, so I'd take their conclusions with a grain of salt. Deliberate misdirection gives great excuse and cover for their incompetence. Regardless, hijacking or not, the plane is still most likely at the bottom of the sea. If it was hijacked for a ransom, we'd have heard from them, and if it was hijacked to use, it would have been most effective to use it right away. It's possible the pilot stole the plane and sold it to terrorists, its just highly improbable.

 

[DavidWhite]

The Malays don't even know which ocean it crashed in, so I'd take their conclusions with a grain of salt. Deliberate misdirection gives great excuse and cover for their incompetence. Regardless, hijacking or not, the plane is still most likely at the bottom of the sea. If it was hijacked for a ransom, we'd have heard from them, and if it was hijacked to use, it would have been most effective to use it right away. It's possible the pilot stole the plane and sold it to terrorists, its just highly improbable.

I do not believe this to be correct with current information. In fact I full well believe that those terrorist MFers intend to use this plane as a delivery device for a WMD. It is imperative that we use all available resources to find it at once. We need the entire world looking for this plane.

 

[Lindberg]

If they have a nuke they could kill enough people to make Adolf Hitler look like the biggest goof of amateur hour.

They may very well have the capability to kill millions. Why else would they need an airplane like that?? I sure as hell can't figure it out.

Let's not get carried away. Hitler killed between ten and twenty million people. You're talking about the entire population of the New York tri-state area. You're not going to kill a fraction of those people with a low-yield or dirty bomb. Everybody take a deep breath and start thinking rationally again.

 

[Lindberg]

I do not believe this to be correct with current information. In fact I full well believe that those terrorist MFers intend to use this plane as a delivery device for a WMD. It is imperative that we use all available resources to find it at once. We need the entire world looking for this plane.

Sit down, mix yourself a drink, take some deep breaths.

 

[DavidWhite]

Let's not get carried away. Hitler killed between ten and twenty million people. You're talking about the entire population of the New York tri-state area. You're not going to kill a fraction of those people with a low-yield or dirty bomb. Everybody take a deep breath and start thinking rationally again.

Well, I was thinking more along the lines of 6 million that hitler directly killed in the holocaust, and yes, you could easily kill that many or more with a dirty bomb in a place as dense as Hong Kong, Beijing, or Tokyo. Depending on where it is even somewhere in Europe May be a potential target

 

[NoHeat]

Unless it's to commit suicide, I thought that hijackers usually make a demand. Demands require that the hijackers be communicative and visible. It seems odd that they would make no demand, not communicate, and make themselves nearly invisible by turning off the transponder.

Piracy, to steal the plane, seems to make a bit more sense, because a pirate would be served well by stealth.

 

[DavidWhite]

Unless it's to commit suicide, I thought that hijackers usually make a demand. Demands require that the hijackers be communicative and visible. It seems odd that they would make no demand, not communicate, and make themselves nearly invisible by turning off the transponder.

Piracy, to steal the plane, seems to make a bit more sense, because a pirate would be served well by stealth.

They don't want money. If I am correct their aim is to kill. Like every other cowardly terrorist.

 

[Lindberg]

Well, I was thinking more along the lines of 6 million that hitler directly killed in the holocaust, and yes, you could easily kill that many or more with a dirty bomb in a place as dense as Hong Kong, Beijing, or Tokyo. Depending on where it is even somewhere in Europe May be a potential target

Six million was just the Jews.

Dirty bombs are about contamination. A dirty bomb would not kill nearly as many people as you suppose, even in a heavily populated area.

They don't want money. If I am correct their aim is to kill. Like every other cowardly terrorist.

Then why not do it right away? That plan only becomes more difficult once its discovered. In the hours immediately following the loss of communications from the plane, no one suspected anything other than a simple plane crash. That would have been the time to carry out an attack. Waiting only increases the chances of a plot being discovered and foiled.

 

[DavidWhite]

Six million was just the Jews. Dirty bombs are about contamination. A dirty bomb would not kill nearly as many people as you suppose, even in a heavily populated area.

Then why not do it right away? That plan only becomes more difficult once its discovered. In the hours immediately following the loss of communications from the plane, no one suspected anything other than a simple plane crash. That would have been the time to carry out an attack. Waiting only increases the chances of a plot being discovered and foiled.

It takes time to gut an airplane. Remember these people want to instill fear. That is their job - to terrorize. I would actually suspect that for maximum terror they would wait to release the weapon until we knew that it had been hijacked. Even if their plan fails, they have still made the entire world afraid.

 

[NoHeat]

So then you're favoring suicide, with terrorism as the motivation, as in 9/11?

Would there have been a symbolic target for suicide hijackers, analogous to the World Trade Center twin towers? Maybe a target in India, like the 2008 Mumbai attacks? Or maybe the Petronas twin towers in Kuala Lumpur?

 

[DavidWhite]

So then you're favoring suicide, with terrorism as the motivation, as in 9/11?

Would there have been a symbolic target for suicide hijackers, analogous to the World Trade Center twin towers? Maybe a target in India, like the 2008 Mumbai attacks? Or maybe the Petronas twin towers in Kuala Lumpur?

As for the target, I have no idea.

If the plane did indeed crash in the ocean, and a terror group was responsible, they would have claimed it by now trumping it as a success because as far as we know, it would have been. They haven't. This is troubling.

Yes, I think this will be a 9/11 style attack only a thousand times greater in magnitude.

 

[DavidWhite]

My theory, as crazy as it may sound, when you look at the facts, is not terribly far-fetched.

 

[NoHeat]

I just watched the latest Malaysian press briefing. Because of the satellite data, they seem to now be convinced that the plane really did turn back and cross the peninsula under the control of somebody. They seem to be relying a lot on Americans, because they mentioned US agencies before mentioning themselves, when they talked about this analysis. They are ceasing searches in the South China Sea and reassessing where to search next. Hijacking was mentioned only as one possibility that they are considering, but they didn't mention the others, and they said they are focusing attention on the crew and passengers.

 

[Jim Logajan]

My theory, as crazy as it may sound, when you look at the facts, is not terribly far-fetched.

There are simple ways to transport a nuclear bomb or other WMD to the center of a populated target. But maybe the alleged terrorists couldn't afford to rent a U-Haul - or discovered that their insurance didn't cover biological or nuclear attack damage but didn't want to get stuck paying for damage to the rental truck. In that case it makes sense to hijack someone else's vehicle and use it for delivery.

 

[Art VanDelay]

My theory, as crazy as it may sound, when you look at the facts, is not terribly far-fetched.

Nor is mine of an avionics bay electrical fire that eventually caused a crash. But it wouldn't sell as many commercials as your idea ......,

 

[kyleb]

I do not believe this to be correct with current information. In fact I full well believe that those terrorist MFers intend to use this plane as a delivery device for a WMD. It is imperative that we use all available resources to find it at once. We need the entire world looking for this plane.

If you had the wherewithal to obtain a WMD, why raise the attention level by stealing a T7? Deliver the thing in the back of a truck or in a GII you bought with a spare $250k.

 

[Greg Bockelman]

Everybody take a deep breath and start thinking rationally again.

Why would they do that? This is the internet.

 

[Fearless Tower]

I thought that hijackers usually make a demand.

That was the predominant line of thinking before 9/11.

AQ showed us that is not the case

 

[Sleepingsquirrel]

If you had the wherewithal to obtain a WMD, why raise the attention level by stealing a T7? Deliver the thing in the back of a truck or in a GII you bought with a spare $250k.

Within 4 weeks this will be old news and nearly forgotten by all. Destroying large icons of US power (buildings) with large icons of US power (airliners) seems to be a plausable extension of AQ terrorism.

 

[NoHeat]

Amazing that Malaysia did not search the Captain's house until a few hours ago. No word yet on what they found there. He seems to be the one on board who would best know how to turn off the ACARS and transponder, and then navigate in a peculiar way to evade radar.

That flight simulator in his home might be one of the best chances of figuring out if the captain was the culprit.

If he saved a file with a record of practicing diverting this flight as it approached Vietnamese ATC airspace, then he was the culprit for sure, and maybe the file will show where he practiced taking the plane after the initial diversion.

 

[NoHeat]

Here is the transcript from the press briefing that I mentioned. It is long, but the second half, with the news, is well worth reading because it is a turning point in the search.


PRIME MINTER MALAYSIA NAJIB RAZAK:
Transcript: Malaysia Prime Minister announcement on Malaysian Airlines flight MH370



Mar 15, 2014
Seven days ago Malaysia Airlines flight MH370 disappeared. We realise this is an excruciating time for the families of those on board. No words can describe the pain they must be going through. Our thoughts and our prayers are with them.

I have been appraised of the on-going search operation round the clock. At the beginning of the operation, I ordered the search area to be broadened; I instructed the Malaysian authorities to share all relevant information freely and transparently with the wider investigation team; and I requested that our friends and allies join the operation. As of today, 14 countries, 43 ships and 58 aircraft are involved in the search. I wish to thank all the governments for their help at such a crucial time.

Since day one, the Malaysian authorities have worked hand-in-hand with our international partners – including neighbouring countries, the aviation authorities and a multinational search force – many of whom have been here on the ground since Sunday.

We have shared information in real time with authorities who have the necessary experience to interpret the data. We have been working nonstop to assist the investigation. And we have put our national security second to the search for the missing plane.

It is widely understood that this has been a situation without precedent.

We have conducted search operations over land, in the South China Sea, the Straits of Malacca, the Andaman Sea and the Indian Ocean. At every stage, we acted on the basis of verified information, and we followed every credible lead. Sometimes these leads have led nowhere.

There has been intense speculation. We understand the desperate need for information on behalf of the families and those watching around the world. But we have a responsibility to the investigation and the families to only release information that has been corroborated. And our primary motivation has always been to find the plane.

In the first phase of the search operation, we searched near MH370’s last known position, in the South China Sea. At the same time, it was brought to our attention by the Royal Malaysian Air Force that, based on their primary radar, an aircraft – the identity of which could not be confirmed – made a turn back. The primary radar data showed the aircraft proceeding on a flight path which took it to an area north of the Straits of Malacca.

Given this credible data, which was subsequently corroborated with the relevant international authorities, we expanded the area of search to include the Straits of Malacca and, later, to the Andaman Sea.

Early this morning I was briefed by the investigation team – which includes the FAA [US Federal Aviation Administration], NTSB [US National Transportation Safety Board], the AAIB [Uk Air Accidents Investigation Branch], the Malaysian authorities and the acting minister of transport – on new information that sheds further light on what happened to MH370.

Based on new satellite information, we can say with a high degree of certainty that the Aircraft Communications Addressing and Reporting System (ACARS) was disabled just before the aircraft reached the East coast of peninsular Malaysia. Shortly afterwards, near the border between Malaysian and Vietnamese air traffic control, the aircraft’s transponder was switched off.

From this point onwards, the Royal Malaysian Air Force primary radar showed that an aircraft which was believed – but not confirmed – to be MH370 did indeed turn back. It then flew in a westerly direction back over peninsular Malaysia before turning northwest. Up until the point at which it left military primary radar coverage, these movements are consistent with deliberate action by someone on the plane.

Today, based on raw satellite data that was obtained from the satellite data service provider, we can confirm that the aircraft shown in the primary radar data was flight MH370. After much forensic work and deliberation, the FAA, NTSB, AAIB and the Malaysian authorities, working separately on the same data, concur.

According to the new data, the last confirmed communication between the plane and the satellite was at 8:11AM Malaysian time on Saturday 8th March. The investigations team is making further calculations which will indicate how far the aircraft may have flown after this last point of contact. This will help us to refine the search.

Due to the type of satellite data, we are unable to confirm the precise location of the plane when it last made contact with the satellite.

However, based on this new data, the aviation authorities of Malaysia and their international counterparts have determined that the plane’s last communication with the satellite was in one of two possible corridors: a northern corridor stretching approximately from the border of Kazakhstan and Turkmenistan to northern Thailand, or a southern corridor stretching approximately from Indonesia to the southern Indian ocean. The investigation team is working to further refine the information.

In view of this latest development the Malaysian authorities have refocused their investigation into the crew and passengers on board. Despite media reports that the plane was hijacked, I wish to be very clear: we are still investigating all possibilities as to what caused MH370 to deviate from its original flight path.

This new satellite information has a significant impact on the nature and scope of the search operation. We are ending our operations in the South China Sea and reassessing the redeployment of our assets. We are working with the relevant countries to request all information relevant to the search, including radar data.

As the two new corridors involve many countries, the relevant foreign embassies have been invited to a briefing on the new information today by the Malaysian Foreign Ministry and the technical experts. I have also instructed the Foreign Ministry to provide a full briefing to foreign governments which had passengers on the plane. This morning, Malaysia Airlines has been informing the families of the passengers and crew of these new developments.

Clearly, the search for MH370 has entered a new phase. Over the last seven days, we have followed every lead and looked into every possibility. For the families and friends of those involved, we hope this new information brings us one step closer to finding the plane.

 

[wsuffa]

If they have a nuke they could kill enough people to make Adolf Hitler look like the biggest goof of amateur hour.

They may very well have the capability to kill millions. Why else would they need an airplane like that?? I sure as hell can't figure it out.

Was it really necessary to Godwin the thread? Really?

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk

 

[ClimbnSink]

If you had the wherewithal to obtain a WMD, why raise the attention level by stealing a T7? Deliver the thing in the back of a truck or in a GII you bought with a spare $250k.

The nuke sensors around cities are pretty decent, they get guys with radioactive prostate seeds all the time. They don't tell those patients not to let grandkids sit on their lap.
It smells like a big one coming, but given the level of sophistication it also smells like a false flag operation. Probably load it up with black guns and crash it into Chicago spreading AR-15s among the cities children. We'll have to ban those things for certain then.

 

[nddons]

On 3/7/14 flight 370, a 777, went missing. Notice that the date says look for three sevens: 3/7/7+7. And the flight was also a 3, a 7, and a 0 to show that it went missing.

And seven days later is Pi day, 3/14. And the first time 7 shows up in the decimal equivalent of Pi is in the 14th place.

This is at least as meaningful as anything else we've heard so far.

I love pie day. My favorite is Maine blueberry.

 

[Norman]

This has all the makings of a good Tom Clancy novel. Shame he ain't here to se the materiel.

 

[jmp470]

Scrub the passenger list and look for high value targets. Is their 1 passenger you want? The other passengers are collateral damage and expendable. But, this is a great way to capture/kill a single target. As for the WMD scenario, yes it can happen. This is the cheapest ICBM that a terrorist could ask for.

 

[ClimbnSink]

Scrub the passenger list and look for high value targets. Is their 1 passenger you want? The other passengers are collateral damage and expendable. But, this is a great way to capture/kill a single target. As for the WMD scenario, yes it can happen. This is the cheapest ICBM that a terrorist could ask for.

20 or so employees from one high tech electronics company were on board. No idea what the collective knowledge is capable of building.

 

[gkainz]

20 or so employees from one high tech electronics company were on board. No idea what the collective knowledge is capable of building.

Watching the "brain" team on Survivor says "not much"

 

[Fearless Tower]

As for the WMD scenario, yes it can happen. This is the cheapest ICBM that a terrorist could ask for.

The only issue with that scenario is that there are FAR easier ways of obtaining a delivery vehicle.

 

[Sac Arrow]

The only issue with that scenario is that there are FAR easier ways of obtaining a delivery vehicle.

Exactly. If your objective was to deliver a bomb by airplane to a specific area, that's not how you would go about doing it.

 

[ClimbnSink]

Exactly. If your objective was to deliver a bomb by airplane to a specific area, that's not how you would go about doing it.

If Jihad Holdings LLC buys a 727 does everyone involved get sick and die? Fall down the stairs? Perish in suspicious house fires? I don't subscribe competence to gov'ts, but some things are obvious. Post 9/11 they were out looking up Pawnee glider tugs, no doubt the airplane market is watched.

 

[airdale]

This is the cheapest ICBM that a terrorist could ask for.

A triple seven is so far above what is needed to deliver a nuclear weapon that the thought is ludicrous. I have worked in the defense industry and had the clearances, but all you need is an internet search to tell you that a Toyota pickup truck would be an entirely adequate delivery vehicle as, probably, would a 182.

There is the little matter of how to detonate a stolen weapon, too. You don't just hit it on the nose with a hammer. Making your own weapon also pushes the limits of feasibility.

As far as a dirty bomb is concerned, you again don't need a triple seven. To make a big dirty bomb the main problem is probably obtaining a large quantity of radioactive material without turning yourself into a crispy critter in the process, not coming up with a delivery mechanism.

But all that is just logical analysis. Logic may not apply here.

I have no theory on the situation, but was interested to hear about the airplane staying on airways and tracking to waypoints on its way to the west. Even if a bad guy had the expertise or could force the pilots to program the FMS, why would he want to fly this way?

 

[Lindberg]

Here is the transcript from the press briefing that I mentioned. It is long, but the second half, with the news, is well worth reading because it is a turning point in the search.


PRIME MINTER MALAYSIA NAJIB RAZAK:

Snip - bunch of excuses for why they haven't found the plane

So, we're back to hijacking just being a theory?

 

[Lindberg]

I have no theory on the situation, but was interested to hear about the airplane staying on airways and tracking to waypoints on its way to the west.

An airplane. That might or might not have been this airplane.

 

[N747JB]

How in the world can an airplane fly across a country's airspace without a transponder and NOT raise suspicion? Civilian? military? some type of radar should have picked this up and at least caused a concern and tracked it. Even without the knowledge of a missing airliner, an unknown airplane in your airspace is cause for concern.
My theory is the cockpit was taken over either by a passenger or crew member and crashed. A fire in the electronics bay wouldn't have allowed the flight to go another 4-5 hours, IMO.

 

[ClimbnSink]

Based on being the loudest skeptic of foul play the only logical conclusion is Lindberg store the 777. Give it back man, not cool, not cool at all.

 

[airdale]

An airplane. That might or might not have been this airplane.

True enough, but if the report is accurate (big IF) the reported route makes no sense for an aircraft on a normal flight. I saw it mapped on some news story or another but can't give a link. But it makes no sense for a bad guy's flight either ...