Malaysia Airlines Flight 370

kontiki said:
A few hundred years ago people loosing touch with others forever was not all so uncommon. People moved on. The whole business of closure seems like a fairly recent TV psychobabble/spiritual entertainment plot device to me.

I don't know if it's really relevant, but I did read someone's speculation that kids growing up and learning to play in the bombed out streets of London during WW2 wound up doing better than kids in today's nanny safe playgrounds. People are tough and can often do more than they think.
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Your right,

People are tough and can get over it. The problem is you don't know exactly what happened to your loved ones. With the media saying the plane was taken hostage, crashed into the water, The pilot was a terrorist...etc every week or so. You don't know exactly what to believe. Once you find out what happened to them then you will sleep better and finally can go on with your life. The same thing happened to me during 9/11
 
N801BH said:
That statement says ALOT about the current education system...:mad2::mad2::mad2:......
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I was thinking the same thing. I am thinking back to my education, and I don't remember her ever being mentioned. It's a shame.
 
FloridaPilot said:
The problem is you don't know exactly what happened to your loved ones.
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Again, these families are not the only people whoes loved ones disappeared without trace and nobody has answers. They are not entitled to answers any more than a family whose soldier is MIA or daughter who disappeared from a cruise ship on her honeymoon. Because there is/was a media circus around it doesn't entitle them to any special privileges. The world doesn't owe them anything beyond 'reasonable' care. Also I see them banging on the doors of Malaysian embassy - they should be banging on the door of their own government whose resources are much higher.
 
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Meh 25 more years of history has happened since I was in a history class. They can't teach it all.
 
FloridaPilot said:
I now understand the comparison but a Boeing 777 should be a bit easier to find then a small single. At least SOME debris, somewhere!
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Read up some more, it was a twin engine Lockheed Electra and nothing is easy to find when it's lying at an unknown location at the bottom of a deep immense ocean.

What I find amazing is people's distorted sense of scale. Too much Google Maps and not enough actual travel experience I guess. I also believe, perhaps due to a bit too much Hollywood, that people have wildly overblown expectations in regards to the capabilities of our "technology". I've heard time and time again how people cannot grasp how it is possible to not just fly out there and see something as huge as a giant airliner. It's like, if there's a seat cushion floating out there how could you possibly NOT see it? :dunno:
 
Jimmy cooper said:
and her navigator was an alcoholic.
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Could be but Pan Am gave him top ratings as far as navigation and nobody I am aware claims his alcoholism had anything to do with them not reaching the destination. They prepared for this flight together - there was plenty of opportunity to recognize his alcoholism and dismiss him. Actually many see possibility that Amelia who overruled him before (when they flew towards Africa and made wrong turn in the process) overruled him again but this time with deadly consequences.
 
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Henning said:
The advantage here is technology and still clean edges. They found AF-447....
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They had self generated position reports every 10 minutes. Since the plane was traveling 8 miles per minute, the radius of action was 80 miles. It took 5 days to find wreckage and two years to find the recorders.

While it makes for great speculation, the simplest explanations are the most likely. It is a human tragedy. Someday, parts will turn up.
 
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SixPapaCharlie said:
Meh 25 more years of history has happened since I was in a history class. They can't teach it all.
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But remember before the internet when we had to look up something?

I had the full set of encyclopedia Britannica and sometimes what I was looking for wasn't in there either.

Grateful for the internet!
 
FloridaPilot said:
But remember before the internet when we had to look up something?

I had the full set of encyclopedia Britannica and sometimes what I was looking for wasn't in there either.

Grateful for the internet!
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I have no idea how I lived without all this stuff. I really spoiled on today's technology.
 
Silvaire said:
Read up some more, it was a twin engine Lockheed Electra and nothing is easy to find when it's lying at an unknown location at the bottom of a deep immense ocean.

What I find amazing is people's distorted sense of scale. Too much Google Maps and not enough actual travel experience I guess. I also believe, perhaps due to a bit too much Hollywood, that people have wildly overblown expectations in regards to the capabilities of our "technology". I've heard time and time again how people cannot grasp how it is possible to not just fly out there and see something as huge as a giant airliner. It's like, if there's a seat cushion floating out there how could you possibly NOT see it? :dunno:
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Exactly.

I was thinking the only thing bigger than the oceans on this planet are the skies... then I remembered that right now, the oceans are actually much bigger. They are relatively opaque, deep and dense. We still lose big ships...
Ghost Ship
 
Duh...Well explain to me why anyone would be hand flying a triple seven out over the ocean thousands of miles from anywhere? :dunno:
 
Silvaire said:
Duh...Well explain to me why anyone would be hand flying a triple seven out over the ocean thousands of miles from anywhere? :dunno:
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This is my point:

BEIJING — Authorities believe missing Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 was on autopilot for hours when it crashed into the southern Indian Ocean, Australian officials said Thursday as they announced the search for the jet will shift to a new area.
"Certainly for its path across the Indian Ocean, we are confident that the aircraft was operating on autopilot until it ran out of fuel,"

What did they exactly mean by that? I understand hand flying that long is a lot of work but what I don't understand is how do they know the plane was operating on autopilot until it ran out of fuel? How do they even know the plane ran out of fuel when they can't even find it?
 
FloridaPilot said:
This is my point:

BEIJING — Authorities believe missing Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 was on autopilot for hours when it crashed into the southern Indian Ocean, Australian officials said Thursday as they announced the search for the jet will shift to a new area.
"What did they exactly mean by that? I understand hand flying that long is a lot of work but what I don't understand is how do they know the plane was operating on autopilot until it ran out of fuel? How do they even know the plane ran out of fuel when they can't even find it?
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How do they know it even went over the ocean..:dunno::dunno:..'

It could have gone to the north and is sitting in Pakastan , on a remote airstrip with a tarp over it.....

Bottom line is,,,,,,,,, They have NO idea where it is...:(
 
They know it went south, it's been explained fairly thoroughly how the data had determined that. Now if you don't believe them that's your choice but you'd have to explain to me why a group of engineers would fabricate something like that or make up a story. And it wasn't just the Immarsat people, it went through serious peer review and was subsequently confirmed.
 
Silvaire said:
They know it went south, it's been explained fairly thoroughly how the data had determined that. Now if you don't believe them that's your choice but you'd have to explain to me why a group of engineers would fabricate something like that or make up a story. And it wasn't just the Immarsat people, it went through serious peer review and was subsequently confirmed.
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Hmmmmmm...

The "experts" have changed their stories numerous times to fit their agenda.........:yes:.....:confused:......

Till the wreckage is found................ ANYTHING is possible...
 
Explain to us what that "agenda" is :dunno:
 
N801BH said:
That statement says ALOT about the current education system...:mad2::mad2::mad2:......
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I enjoy the irony of spelling errors in posts critical of the education system.:lol:

Back on topic. It is logical to conclude that everyone on board was dead long before the plane finally went down. And since its last position was about the limit of the fuel endurance, that indicates flew until it ran out. Yes, there are other, much less likely, possibilities, but most require some degree unwarranted assumptions or fantasy.
 
N801BH said:
How do they know it even went over the ocean..:dunno::dunno:..'

It could have gone to the north and is sitting in Pakastan , on a remote airstrip with a tarp over it.....

Bottom line is,,,,,,,,, They have NO idea where it is...:(
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That is exactly right,

They can speculate all they want but until they find and examine the plane they don't have any real evidence to support their claim.

Everything at this point is just hearsay!
 
They have the satellite comm data, why do you feel that is not "real" and why do you call it "hearsay"? Do you think they just made it up, somebody just "said" it based on nothing and everybody ran with it?
 
Although I have nothing to substantiate my theory, I have a gut feeling we'll be seeing that plane when some terrorists are ready to make a statement.
 
FloridaPilot said:
That is exactly right,

They can speculate all they want but until they find and examine the plane they don't have any real evidence to support their claim.

Everything at this point is just hearsay!
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No it's not. It's circumstantial. Like fingerprints and DNA.

Ron Wanttaja
 
Personally, I think it wandered into a hard core storm and ended up back in 1941.

I'd believe that just as much as the garbage the media is spewing!
 
Even if it stayed intact, looking for it where they are I guess would be like looking for a grain of sand in your swimming pool.

Even with the best sounding equipment, sonar, or spectroscope gadgets whatever you call them, you better be almost right on top of it.

Then it's 10,000 feet down or more maybe. IF it's intact. Which it won't be even if it ditched intact. Big ships tend to break up from pressure and hydraulic forces on their way down to the bottom, big planes most likely do as well.
 
Actually ships typically break at the surface from the stresses caused by flooded and buoyant spaces, especially when the bow going under lifts the stern out of the water.
 
AdamZ said:
I don't believe anything from that paper when it comes to aviation.
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The good thing is that even the paper(s) have a hard time getting really straightforward stuff wrong all of the time.

The mathematicians, scientists, radio geeks, and engineers looking at the data are all fact driven and pretty much agree on where the plane was headed. I trust that the major newspapers (WSJ, for instance) can relay this fact accurately.
 
Henning said:
Actually ships typically break at the surface from the stresses caused by flooded and buoyant spaces, especially when the bow going under lifts the stern out of the water.
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They break up after submerging intact on the way down too. From twisting forces, pressure, and fluid hydraulics.

Point is, if it's in the deep ocean, it ain't in one piece on the bottom.

Don't make me get up off this chair and Google Fu some ****... :crazy::incazzato:
 
As long as we are guessing I say the plane had a problem like Payne Stewart's Learjet.
 
Fishing4fun said:
As long as we are guessing I say the plane had a problem like Payne Stewart's Learjet.
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Most likely even more dramatic in the structural failure department which slowed it down so they will find it further up the line of position than they are thinking. They'll probably find it this year.
 
Silvaire said:
They have the satellite comm data, why do you feel that is not "real" and why do you call it "hearsay"? Do you think they just made it up, somebody just "said" it based on nothing and everybody ran with it?
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I'm just saying if they had all of this data they would know exactly where the plane was. If the plane did run out of fuel like they said it did, The incident could've been prevented. Don't they know EXACTLY how much fuel is needed from one point to another. Why would a pilot/co pilot fly an airplane that they KNOW is not enough fuel from one point to another? This is a commercial airline, fuel outs doesn't happen too often.

Engineers also believed that the planet was flat until someone went out there and proved them wrong!
 
FloridaPilot said:
I'm just saying if they had all of this data they would know exactly where the plane was. If the plane did run out of fuel like they said it did, The incident could've been prevented. Don't they know EXACTLY how much fuel is needed from one point to another. Why would a pilot/co pilot fly an airplane that they KNOW is not enough fuel from one point to another? This is a commercial airline, fuel outs doesn't happen too often.

Engineers also believed that the planet was flat until someone went out there and proved them wrong!
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The data gives them a good LOP (line of position); the Fix, the point on the LOP where the aircraft went in has a rather large margin of error. Engineers knew the planet wasn't flat for pretty much the entirety of history.

If no one is awake due to a decompressive event, then the plane will fly on until it runs out of fuel or comes to a point in the FMS programming that tells it to do something different.
 
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FloridaPilot said:
If the plane did run out of fuel like they said it did, The incident could've been prevented. Don't they know EXACTLY how much fuel is needed from one point to another. Why would a pilot/co pilot fly an airplane that they KNOW is not enough fuel from one point to another?
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You misunderstand. No one is saying the plane had insufficient fuel to reach its intended destination. Rather, the plane diverted until it had flown much, much further than its intended destination. It eventually ran out of fuel, because it didn't hit anything first and its fuel supply was not infinite.

Engineers also believed that the planet was flat until someone went out there and proved them wrong!
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No, that's false. Educated people not only knew the earth was round thousands of years ago, they even made fairly accurate calculations of its size. And I'm not sure who you think "went out there and proved them wrong".

If you have Columbus in mind, then you have several further misconceptions. Those who were skeptical ahead of his voyage didn't think he was wrong about the shape of the earth, but rather about its size. They thought the earth was much larger than Columbus thought--and they were right. No Europeans, including Columbus, expected the Americas to be in the way between Europe and India. And if not, Columbus would never have been able to make it all the way across the ocean to India, given the actual size of the planet.

And finally, since Columbus did not in fact reach any known land to the east by sailing west, he would not have proved the roundness of the earth even if it had still needed proving.
 
Fishing4fun said:
As long as we are guessing I say the plane had a problem like Payne Stewart's Learjet.
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I doubt it.
Payne Sewart's plane was flying straight, it was not making multiple turns during otherwise perfectly coordinated flight.
 
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