Magnetic north point moving fast

Discussion in 'Flight Following' started by Cluemeister, Jan 10, 2019.

  1. Cluemeister

    Cluemeister Line Up and Wait PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2015
    Messages:
    540
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Cluemeister
  2. SkyDog58

    SkyDog58 Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2015
    Messages:
    12,750
    Location:
    My own special place.
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Canis Non Grata
    This is a polarizing subject.
     
  3. Skyrys62

    Skyrys62 Pattern Altitude PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2017
    Messages:
    2,399
    Location:
    KY
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Meet the Fokkers
    Indeed, a moving article, with both negative and positive points.
     
  4. Shepherd

    Shepherd En-Route

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2012
    Messages:
    3,729
    Location:
    Hopewell Jct, NY
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Shepherd
    It lost me somewhere near the Bering Sea.
     
    TRocket, Eric Stoltz and woodchucker like this.
  5. flyingcheesehead

    flyingcheesehead Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2005
    Messages:
    22,259
    Location:
    UQACY, WI
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    iMooniac
    Buncha jokesters here, but this is potentially pretty serious for pilots.

    So, expect your glass panels to need an update... And if you live near the extremes of the G1000's operational area, better cross your fingers. And toes.
     
  6. Half Fast

    Half Fast En-Route

    Joined:
    May 7, 2016
    Messages:
    3,393
    Location:
    Central Florida
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Half Fast
    Any of you bidding for a contract to repaint all the US runway numbers yet?
     
  7. Ted DuPuis

    Ted DuPuis Administrator Management Council Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2007
    Messages:
    24,341
    Location:
    Paola, KS
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    #bandozer
    That actually makes an interesting point. I have noticed in my recent flights over the past 6 months that a LOT of runways have changed numbers.
     
  8. Dan Thomas

    Dan Thomas Final Approach

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2008
    Messages:
    5,322
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Dan Thomas
    They're worried about ship navigation in the far north, thinking that the moving magnetic field makes it difficult. But the compass has never been any good up there anyway; the lines of flux dive almost vertically into the planet and make readings unreliable. Until GPS, the sun was used for direction. In some areas it still is.
    http://www.nauticapedia.ca/Articles/Compasses_North.php
     
    Bobanna likes this.
  9. GRG55

    GRG55 Final Approach

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2015
    Messages:
    6,216
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Aztec Flyer
    That magnetic pole and compass thing is the stuff of 18th century wooden ships.
    Bloody good thing we invented the magenta line...
     
    birdus, Omalley1537, TRocket and 3 others like this.
  10. flyer770

    flyer770 Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    124
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Flyer770
    Because nothing bad ever happens while mindlessly following the magenta line.
     
    TRocket likes this.
  11. GRG55

    GRG55 Final Approach

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2015
    Messages:
    6,216
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Aztec Flyer
    It doesn't pay to think too much.
    I read that in a Garmin manual. ;)
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2019
  12. woodchucker

    woodchucker Line Up and Wait

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2014
    Messages:
    995
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    woodchucker
    Trying to remember, what’s the update schedule? Foggy memory but I thought there was a prescribed rw number update schedule. 5 or 10 years?
     
  13. Stingray Don

    Stingray Don En-Route

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2014
    Messages:
    2,603
    Location:
    Indianapolis, Indiana
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Stingray Don
    “Bugmasher 12345, clear to land runway 13. Correction 14. Correction 15. Correction 16. Just land on the runway in front of you”
     
    birdus, Omalley1537, DaleB and 7 others like this.
  14. MooneyDriver78

    MooneyDriver78 Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2013
    Messages:
    2,275
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Tom
    That could be a sign it’s about to flip poles.


    Tom
     
    Kenny Phillips likes this.
  15. Salty

    Salty En-Route PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2016
    Messages:
    3,502
    Location:
    FL
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Salty
    I looked at the chart at the beginning of that article and it appeared to show the opposite of the fear mongering headline. Since 2010 it’s slowed a bit.
     
  16. JOhnH

    JOhnH Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    May 20, 2009
    Messages:
    11,272
    Location:
    Florida
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Spun Out
    I thought that too, until I took another sip of coffee. The chart shows increments of 20 years up till 2000. Then a 10 year gap, then a 5 year gap. Changing the gap distorts the perception.
     
  17. midwestpa24

    midwestpa24 Cleared for Takeoff

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2016
    Messages:
    1,281
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    midwestpa24

    Not really a schedule of anytype. The magnetic heading of the runway is usually reviewed if the pavement is rehabed or reconstructed and the markings have to be repainted anyway. Just a convenient time to do it.
     
  18. Salty

    Salty En-Route PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2016
    Messages:
    3,502
    Location:
    FL
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Salty
    Look again. It’s still slowing.
     
    Bobanna likes this.
  19. JOhnH

    JOhnH Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    May 20, 2009
    Messages:
    11,272
    Location:
    Florida
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Spun Out
    After a little more coffee, I think I see what you are looking at. The gap between 2015 and 2020 is smaller than the gap between 2010 and 2015. But 2020 is just an estimate that was probably made a few years ago.
     
  20. Cluemeister

    Cluemeister Line Up and Wait PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2015
    Messages:
    540
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Cluemeister
    Airports might be better off to apply peel and stick numbers going forward.
     
  21. cgrab

    cgrab Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    May 2, 2014
    Messages:
    1,672
    Location:
    Huntsville AL
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    cgrab
    It appears the magnetic north is migrating towards the north pole. That would make things simpler.
     
    TRocket likes this.
  22. SkyDog58

    SkyDog58 Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2015
    Messages:
    12,750
    Location:
    My own special place.
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Canis Non Grata
    But is that just an effect of flattening a sphere into a flat map?

    But look on the bright side, it looks like it’s getting closer to true north.

    :rolleyes:
     
    TRocket and Stingray Don like this.
  23. Skyrys62

    Skyrys62 Pattern Altitude PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2017
    Messages:
    2,399
    Location:
    KY
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Meet the Fokkers
    Runway numbers are not important as long as you do 360 deg. clearing turns on final.
     
  24. tawood

    tawood Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2015
    Messages:
    2,287
    Location:
    SE Michigan
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Tim
    Looks to me like its about to pass the north pole and currently is at its closest point...which means right now is as simple as it gets!
     
  25. lancie00

    lancie00 Line Up and Wait

    Joined:
    May 12, 2016
    Messages:
    537
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    lancie00
    Does this mean that Santa is moving???
     
  26. Dan Thomas

    Dan Thomas Final Approach

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2008
    Messages:
    5,322
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Dan Thomas
    Nope. GPS coverage is not completely global. The various maps I find differ a bit, but the coverages look similar to this:

    [​IMG]

    Some of the mid-latitude ocean should be OK but WAAS would be inop. It's the poles that don't appear to be covered well.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2019
    Tantalum and wayneda40 like this.
  27. Half Fast

    Half Fast En-Route

    Joined:
    May 7, 2016
    Messages:
    3,393
    Location:
    Central Florida
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Half Fast
    I foresee a market for giant LCD screens with real-time updates embedded in the approach ends of runways.....
     
    Huckster79, Salty and OkieFlyer like this.
  28. SoonerAviator

    SoonerAviator En-Route PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2014
    Messages:
    4,273
    Location:
    Broken Arrow, OK
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    SoonerAviator
    OLED screens, you know, so they're retractable and flexible for runway slopes.
     
  29. SkyDog58

    SkyDog58 Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2015
    Messages:
    12,750
    Location:
    My own special place.
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Canis Non Grata
    Probably one reason why runways are numbered to the nearest 10 degrees rather than the nearest degree.
     
    birdus and JOhnH like this.
  30. jsstevens

    jsstevens En-Route PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    May 18, 2007
    Messages:
    4,708
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    jsstevens
    And that is a convienence and somewhat arbitrary. KMCO has four parallel runways (all oriented north south). They are truly parallel. The western 2 are 18-36 L&R and the eastern 2 are 17-35 L&R
     
    Stephen Poole likes this.
  31. Stephen Poole

    Stephen Poole Pre-takeoff checklist PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2018
    Messages:
    177
    Location:
    Birmingham, Alabama
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Professor31
    Yes.
     
  32. murphey

    murphey Final Approach PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2008
    Messages:
    8,381
    Location:
    Colorado
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    murphey
    Great time to sell, not so great time to buy....prices are redikulus....
     
  33. yetti

    yetti Line Up and Wait

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2014
    Messages:
    532
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Yetti
    Coming ice age. Apparently the poles have flipped several times.
     
  34. Kenny Phillips

    Kenny Phillips Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2018
    Messages:
    1,962
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Kenny Phillips
    Maybe magnetic numbers.
     
    NHWannabe and SkyDog58 like this.
  35. GRG55

    GRG55 Final Approach

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2015
    Messages:
    6,216
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Aztec Flyer
    Yes, he's got a new toy shop.
    The old one has a sign out front: For Lease Navidad
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2019
  36. Spring Ford

    Spring Ford Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2018
    Messages:
    116
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    SpringFord
    The poles flip about every million years, if I recall my university geology correctly. We are overdue for a change. There are concerns that the magnetic field may collapse for a while during the transition exposing us to hazardous 'cosmic rays'.

    As I understand it no one really knows how the field arises or what causes the flips.

    Pole reversal is the "conclusive" evidence for seafloor spreading which is a key mechanism in the movement of the continental plates. I can roughly recall the Atlantic case.

    The US and Europe are slowly getting further apart. There is a volcanic ridge runs down the middle of the Atlantic. As continents move apart the molten rock comes out the slot and solidifies filling the gap. It takes on the local magnetic field as it does so.

    [​IMG]

    There are consequent bands of opposing polarity baked into the rocks across the Atlantic ocean. This was found round about the '60s when Magnetic Anomaly Detectors became available. The MADs may have been developed for detecting submerged submarines and/or for oil exploration.

    [​IMG]

    Lockheed Orion with MAD boom.

    [​IMG]

    Theory of Plate Tectonics.
    Continental Drift.
    Gondwanaland.


    Most of the above is likely mostly OK. :)

    There is no connection to the accumulation of the greenhouse gas CO2 in the atmosphere.

    http://www.phy6.org/earthmag/reversal.htm
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2019
  37. Zeldman

    Zeldman Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2014
    Messages:
    10,721
    Location:
    NM or the emergency room...
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Billy
    Buy your T-shirt now before it is too late..!!!

    [​IMG]
     
    GRG55, Skyrys62 and Eric Stoltz like this.
  38. dans2992

    dans2992 En-Route

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2013
    Messages:
    3,262
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Dans2992
    Pretty sure GPS covers the entirety of the planet’s surface.
     
  39. Tantalum

    Tantalum En-Route

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2017
    Messages:
    3,259
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    San_Diego_Pilot
    Interesting, I always thought it was global, hence the name. But I'm also not surprised that coverage may lack or be non existent in wide open parts of the south pacific ocean. Is this that map accurate for all GPS? On the Volvo Ocean Races I was pretty the teams had GPS coverage even in those dark areas.. but maybe not?

    That's what I thought.. but given that it is generated by geosynchronous satellites I wouldn't be surprised if it is not in all areas available.. does it make sense to operate and maintain a satellite that you don't really need?
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2019
  40. SkyDog58

    SkyDog58 Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2015
    Messages:
    12,750
    Location:
    My own special place.
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Canis Non Grata
    The Poles, of course!
     
    GRG55, Pilawt, olasek and 1 other person like this.