M20J--When to start slowing down in a Mooney on an IFR Approach

E

epsalant

Filing Flight Plan
Joined
Nov 29, 2009
Messages
23
Display Name
Display name:
Evan
I just bought a Mooney M20J after flying a Piper Archer for about 500 hours. I never really worried about what speed to fly on an instrument approach. Whenever I got near the FAF I cut the power and soon added flaps and would soon be at final approach speed. That approach won't work in a Mooney.

I'm wondering what other Mooney drivers do. When do you start slowing down ? What speeds do you aim for at the IAF or Vectors, FAF etc. What power settings ?

Thanks,

Evan
 
in the Mooney (M20K) I slow, on a full approach, 3-5 miles from the IAF, or on a vectored approach, upon the first vector. Hard to give you power settings because I am used to the turbocharged K model, but I use about 18" MP and 2400 RPM for a stabilized descent. That power setting and approach flaps will give me 500 FPM on the ILS at around 100 - 110 knots.

It sucks sometimes that you have to slow down, but sometimes you just have to. Though ATC really really likes it when you're able to maintain much faster if able for traffic behind you. That's a big plus.
 
epsalant said:
I just bought a Mooney M20J after flying a Piper Archer for about 500 hours. I never really worried about what speed to fly on an instrument approach. Whenever I got near the FAF I cut the power and soon added flaps and would soon be at final approach speed. That approach won't work in a Mooney.

I'm wondering what other Mooney drivers do. When do you start slowing down ? What speeds do you aim for at the IAF or Vectors, FAF etc. What power settings ?

Thanks,

Evan
Click to expand...

The best thing would be to take me for a ride so I could show you in person...

:rofl:

(Just kidding, I ain't got a clue)

Oh, and welcome.
 
What speeds do you aim for
Click to expand...

Having a recipe is nice, (for training mainly) but for busy airports you will need to be prepared to adjust for whatever conditions require. (Going into Austin Sunday, they wanted us to slow down on approach to 180, then popped us into the line and asked for 210 til a 5mi final, then tower needed vref (105) in order to get someone out! All different configurations, you can only hope to get the perfect approach....then be ready to deal with variations.
 
Wow. No one ever asked me to fly 200kts before, must be nice. :rofl:

Seriously, though, I here what you are saying, I'd just like some idea of what speeds to aim for, I usually fly IFR to smaller airports without so much traffic, e.g. KLDJ, KABE, KMVY, KORF (Linden, Allentown, Martha's Vineyard, Norfolk) etc.
 
100 knots, - 500 fpm is about 2200 and 18" mp, gear out. I never used flaps on the Moo, they didn't make much difference. Much above 100 knots, you just can't get it down to 80 knots over the fence. On shorter runways I would do it at 90 knots.
 
So do you start slowing down before the IAF, at the IAF or after ?
 
NOt a Mooney driver, but I fly a big, clean aeroplane myself.

I echo the comments of Dr. Bruce and (drum) Major Jason. Pull back on MP in the last few miles of the approach. Gear and (if it matters) one notch flaps at final marker.

Tossing the gear and one or two notches of flaps will slow (IMLE - In my limited experience) any GA craft enough for a stabilized approach/landing.
 
My J had speed brakes, so I had two different "standard plans".

Normally, without speedbrakes, I'd fly the initial approach at around 120 KIAS, slowing to cross the FAF at 100 knots with the gear extended and approach flaps out. If asked to keep the speed up, I'd go faster (140) and cross the FAF at gear extend speed and put the gear out a little later.

With speedbrakes, a busy airport would get full speed until about 1 NM from the FAF, then the brakes come out, then the gear, and final would be flown with power at 120 knots or so, using the brakes if needed to slow down in visual conditions on short final.

Now, all of this "go fast" goes out the window if it's Low IMC. In those conditions I want to be stable at 1000 AGL, which means everything is done - including full flaps. But I've never had ATC (even at DCA or IAD) tell me to "keep my speed up" on days like that.
 
EARTH TO BILL, EARTH TO BILL, ARE YOU OUT THERE, BILL? ;)

I used to fly an M20F. You do want to give it time to slow down, because otherwise it won't want to, and you'll find yourself having a sloppy approach due to chopping power and needing to pull up to lose speed. The gear is the best drag you can add on the plane. I put the gear down at glide slope intercept on an ILS, or FAF otherwise as a rule, but some approaches have steep decent angles and you're better of putting the gear down sooner (this is why it's important to brief your approach).

I'd suggest avoiding really busy airports until you're comfortable with the plane's speed characteristics and trying to get the thing slowed down. It is a slippery bird that doesn't want to slow down, and getting the thing on the ground can be a challenge if you carry too much speed in. It's the opposite of the Archer in that regard, where I've come over the numbers in the yellow and still gotten it on the ground with room to spare (runway of ~5000 ft).
 
Do what's good for your aircraft and it's longevity. I am one of those fast jet guys that you are worried about. Please don't worry about us. We can slow down as well or go and take a vector. Slow down if you need too three or so miles from your FAF and save the engine. :) Let us be the last worry in your mind. :) By all means, have fun out there!
 
Congrats on your new bird!
I would figure some settings such as 20"/2500 that will keep you at or very close to Vle while being vectored for the approach..or just inside the IAF. That way you can add drag when you need it on that slick wing. M20J with the speed brakes..nice option at those busy airports...but as long as you plan to slow down early in the approach you will come out fine.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
EARTH TO BILL, EARTH TO BILL, ARE YOU OUT THERE, BILL? ;)
Click to expand...

Hey Ted!!!

Me, I like to get slowed down to 90kts clean by the time I reach the IAF. 15" or thereabouts does the trick. Continue clean 90kts to FAF, at the FAF, drop gear and put in takeoff flaps. Normally, she'll go down the GS 90 +/- 5 with minimal trim and/or throttle changes. Nice thing is this is also takeoff configuration, so you're already set to go missed if necessary.
 
Earthroamer said:
Do what's good for your aircraft and it's longevity. I am one of those fast jet guys that you are worried about. Please don't worry about us. We can slow down as well or go and take a vector. Slow down if you need too three or so miles from your FAF and save the engine. :) Let us be the last worry in your mind. :) By all means, have fun out there!
Click to expand...

That's interesting advice. The last time I had to hurry on approach I was between a Mooney and a Citation. I was catching up with the Mooney (Grrr) and being caught by the Citation. I wasn't really a happy camper since there was no "win" in that particular situation. I think the Mooney driver obviously didn't get "it" and wouldn't help out by keeping speed up. The Citation driver was just stuck with being third in line and they didn't give me a break at all. Good thing I was low approach only (as dictated by tower, not by my choice).
 
From an operational standpoint, if you get to approach speed before it's time to start down, there are so many aircraft in which only 1 change will start your descent at that same airspeed for an ILS with maybe an extra one for a non-precision approach. The most common instances of this are gear down in a retract and a throttle reduction in a fixed gear.

Given that propensity and the very small workload involved, why wouldn't one take advantage of it?
 
Clark1961 said:
That's interesting advice. The last time I had to hurry on approach I was between a Mooney and a Citation. I was catching up with the Mooney (Grrr) and being caught by the Citation.
Click to expand...

Haha. I used to fly citations. Funny thing is most can go as slow as you or a Mooney and do it comfortably. :yikes: While I cannot, I fly out of an airport that is a high amount of training in both airplanes and in the tower. You get over very quickly in getting spun/vectored by ATC or hanging it as slow as you are comfortable with quite often.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top