Loving the Oxygen System!

Shawn

Shawn

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Shawn
Most of my missions are 250-300nm trip from Nor Cal to all over southern California about every two weeks or so. I do the trip anywhere from 7500-9500' VFR and have to be at least 9000' or 10,000' if I go IFR.

I decided to get a portable oxygen system to get up into the 13,000'-15,000' range and man was that a great decision. Even at the 9000' range I now feel great when landing after a few hours in the plane. I always carried a pulse oximeter and never was low enough to be hypoxic, but always landed feeling a bit tired and fatigued, especially at night...which I guess is an early symptom of hypoxia.

My oxygen level on the ground reads at 97%...now with the oxygen I easily maintain 95% and get out of the plane feeling 100%.

Moral of the story...if you are thinking about oxygen, do it!

Now the sky's the limit!

(well, technically my plane's performance and service ceiling are the limit)
 
Cool! I've been thinking about buying one myself. I like to get high on longer cross countries - unless the winds are not favorable. Some of it is just to provide options if the fan up front quits - but mostly to stay above the chop we get around here form time to time.

You are right, riding above 8K does wear you out sometimes ...
 
I feel the same way about my O2. Wonder why I waited so long to get one. The aviation systems can be pricey but a roll your own system can be put together on the cheap and refilled at home for next to nothing.
 
For personal reference...

What are the lowest numbers on the Oximeter are you guys /gals seeing without O2 and still feel decent.??:dunno:....
 
N801BH said:
What are the lowest numbers on the Oximeter are you guys /gals seeing without O2 and still feel decent.??:dunno:....
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"Feeling decent" is irrelevant, since one of the main symptoms of hypoxia is euphoria.

I use O2 anytime I'm over 8,000' for more than 30 minutes. Costs me about a buck an hour per seat-user.

Jeff
 
After landing is another story.

Personally I don't like sucking on o2, unles I'm pressurised I'll just fly lower.

To each their own.
 
jkgoblue said:
So whose system are you using?
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I subscribe to the anything worth doing is worth overdoing club and I went with the Mountain High Portable Pulse Demand system.

http://www.mhoxygen.com/

I did a lot of research and was gonna go home built kit cuz I wasn't liking what I was finding but did like the on demand system and glad I splurged and got it.

One feature is does have that I really like is an audio alarm if it is not passing oxygen on regular intervals for whatever reason.

I did also get the headset mounted boom cannula but like the fit and feel of the standard cannula...which is something that several other pilots mentioned in their reviews as well but I do not like anything breaking the seal of my headset, even sunglasses. The over the ear cannula is what I ended up being most comfortable in.
 
N801BH said:
For personal reference...

What are the lowest numbers on the Oximeter are you guys /gals seeing without O2 and still feel decent.??:dunno:....
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There is no hard number. Everyone's number and how it affects them at various altitudes is different. We were at 12,000' and it was me and two passengers. We checked our O2 on the ground and were all at about the same baseline. Each of our O2 levels on no O2 were all across the board at 12,000'.

I know for me in the low 90s is when I would start feeling tired after a long flight. High 80's is when I could feel it in my eyesight. Never went below that. Mid 90's is where I feel great.
 
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I flew for 14 years without oxygen and last summer bought a portable system for crossing the Rockies and now wish I'd bought it years ago. My first trip coming back home from Idaho, we encountered weather delays that put us well into darkness on the last leg home. The improvement in night vision alone, even at lower altitudes, was very noticeable with oxygen.
 
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N801BH said:
Geez.. My private airport is at 8000MSL.....

http://www.airnav.com/airport/2wy3

I would need a VERY big bottle..:D
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Actually you'd need a SMALLER bottle, for the same mission.
When you are based and live at higher altitude than sea level, that is your body's baseline (or reference blood oxygen saturation percentage).
Once you climb higher, you need supplemental oxygen based on the relative drop in that saturation percentage. So if a sea level person who is normally at 98% would take extra oxygen at (say) 85%, and if your normal (reference) percentage is (say) 90%, then you'd only need your oxygen at 77% (i.e. an 8% "bonus") to be at the same physiological functionality, all else being equal.
This is all theoretical, and of course assumes normal health, and that you have acclimatized to your base airport (it won't work for a transient).
The underlying idea is that once you acclimatize to high altitude, your body creates more red blood cells, which carry more oxygen. Despite this boost in RBC, the actual saturation percentage is the same at a given altitude for all normal individuals, regardless of acclimatization. The physiological functionality OTOH depends on actual O2 delivered to the tissues, and is therefore boosted by the extra hemoglobin.
 
It is not just an increased number of RBC's which occurs in individuals who reside at higher altitude. There is a rightward shift in the oxyhemoglobin disassociation curve brought about by an increase in 2,3 DPG. This results in increased efficiency of the RBC in folks like Ben who reside at 8,000 msl.
 
Neal Howard said:
I flew for 14 years without oxygen and last summer bought a portable system for crossing the Rockies and now wish I'd bought it years ago. My first trip coming back home from Idaho, we encountered weather delays that put us well into darkness on the last leg home. The improvement in night vision alone, even at lower altitudes, was very noticeable with oxygen.
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Agree 100%. We bought our Aerox system 2+ years ago, and use it regularly.

We feel so much better after x-country flights, and, of course, the ability to take advantage of all that free airspeed by climbing high(er) when the tailwinds call is golden.

We've comfortably flown at 15,500' with this system. I highly recommend it.
 
8,000? Wow! On my longer flights I've (and my passengers) have routinely flown at 9500 and 10500 without any ill effects. I have a finger pulse oximeter and am consistently in the 90+% range at that altitude. I know everyone's physiology is different but getting on O2 at 8000' seems like pushing it to me. But, whatever makes you feel good... Now I can see using it for longer night flights or even sipping on it on the descent at night...but I don't fly much at night so haven't seen the need. I do carry a couple cans of the portable stuff you can buy at Sporty's just in case...
 
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kenjr said:
8,000? Wow! On my longer flights I've (and my passengers) have routinely flown at 9500 and 10500 without any ill effects. I have a finger pulse oximeter and am consistently in the 90+% range at that altitude. I know everyone's physiology is different but getting on O2 at 8000' seems like pushing it to me. But, whatever makes you feel good...
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I live at 5500 msl, and any flight over an hour, I'm on O2 no matter the altitude, which is usually 7500 or higher up to 14.5. There are many variables involved.
 
kenjr said:
8,000? Wow! On my longer flights I've (and my passengers) have routinely flown at 9500 and 10500 without any ill effects.
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Have you tried the same flight profile both with and without O2? I can certainly safely fly for hours at 8,000 ft, I'm just not as tired if I've been on O2.
 
I purchased a Mountain High portable oxygen system for my C182 last year at Oshkosh. I too like to take advantage of the tailwinds at higher altitudes. For me, I've learned that 8000' and above is oxygen time for me on cross country flights and can definitely tell the difference.
 
Jeff Oslick said:
Have you tried the same flight profile both with and without O2? I can certainly safely fly for hours at 8,000 ft, I'm just not as tired if I've been on O2.
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I haven't but I wouldn't mind trying it. I've done several flights now (I've had my PPL a year or so and have ~200 hours total time) in the 3 hour range all at that altitude and was fine when I got down - not overly tired...just the usual uncomfortable from sitting in the seat for that long.

I was an aircrewman/loadmaster on C-2's in the Navy and spent a lot of time in the back of the bus at various altitudes without O2 for one reason or another. I also did time in the chamber to see/recognize hypoxia effects so I feel pretty good about knowing my body.

I'm all for using it all the time if it's available and it makes you feel good. I'm in my early 40's, in good shape...and those altitudes haven't seemed to bother me any. I'm sure constant O2 at those FL's certainly wouldn't hurt but I like nice long descents for passenger comfort and all the places I fly are relatively low from a sea level perspective so perhaps that's why I'm feeling great by the time I hit the pattern/land.
 
Jeff Oslick said:
Have you tried the same flight profile both with and without O2? I can certainly safely fly for hours at 8,000 ft, I'm just not as tired if I've been on O2.
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That is exactly what I discovered. I can fly all day long at 10,000' and not NEED O2 but after 2-3 hours in the air at higher altitudes, I am much less fatigued the rest of the day on O2.

Is it required?...no
Is 8000' my personal minimum?...nope.
Am I experiencing any "ill effects" at 12K and below?...nope.
Do I feel better after a long flight on O2?...yup.
Would no O2 stop me from flying over 8K?...nope.
Do I wanna replace a canister with laughing gas?...kinda.

For me I have discovered after a 2-3 hours flight at 95% I feel great, 90% I feel just a wee bit tired upon landing and thereafter...upper 80's and I start feeling some effects.
 
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Can anyone tell me how long the O2 systems last? Meaning if I have 2 people sharing a 90 cu ft container how many hours of use will I get out of that container before needing to refill. Also, several of you mentioned refilling at home, how would I do that?
 
OK, lots of testosterone on this topic - and damned few firing brain cells.
Do a test. Borrow a portable O2, any kind no matter how cheap.
Take off at night and climb to 5000 AGL (you sea level types might need 6000)
See all the pretty little lights?
Now with one hand put the O2 mask to your face and take a few deep breaths.
If you do not comprehend the significance what you then see, it is really scary that you are out there over top of innocent people hurtling along in a metal can.
If you are not convinced climb to 8000 and do it again.

Just because you 'feel fine' does not mean squat.
The airforce pilots put through the altitude chamber almost always report feeling normal as they copy a clearance while at altitude with their pressure mask off. It is when they get O2 back on and look at the gibberish they wrote that they realize they were going to die if they had actually been at the controls.
Now we don't operate at those altitudes (usually) but being above 8 or 9 thousand without O2 we are already partially incapacitated while believing we are just fine.
Those of you who live in Denver are sneering - but you are blind to scientific fact. Yeah, you adapt to the effects if you live there. But go up another few thousand and your hemoglobin still works exactly the same as my flatland bloodstream does.
OK, consider this your dutch uncle lecture for the day.
 
I navigated through half of Europe in unknown airspace, no GPS, with dead reckoning, at FL105. I'm not dead nor do I think I was "partially incapacitated".

Someone who's 50+yo and been smoking for 40 years probably would have been.

You are being way too generic. I have a friend who has mid-90's O2 saturation into high teens.
 
Let's also discuss what the finger widget is really measuring, it's NOT the O2 level but the relative color intensity of the light thru the blood and skin. If you have CO at a high level, the color intensity will still indicate your O2 level is fine but it's really not. CO attaches to the O2 molecules in the blood and you get a false reading, one that appears that everything is fine.
 
murphey said:
Let's also discuss what the finger widget is really measuring, it's NOT the O2 level but the relative color intensity of the light thru the blood and skin. If you have CO at a high level, the color intensity will still indicate your O2 level is fine but it's really not. CO attaches to the O2 molecules in the blood and you get a false reading, one that appears that everything is fine.
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Hmmm..

I didn't know that......

Thanks..
 
DwayneSmithUSMC said:
Can anyone tell me how long the O2 systems last? Meaning if I have 2 people sharing a 90 cu ft container how many hours of use will I get out of that container before needing to refill. Also, several of you mentioned refilling at home, how would I do that?
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rule of thumb oxygen flow is 1 liter/min/10,000' MSL - obviously there is a lot of room for varied flow. I generally use 1/2 to 1 liter/minute. If I go up to 18,000 or more then the flow is at 2 liters/min and my O2 sat is about 90%. This is all with a cannula. My 24 cubic ft bottle lasts a long time, >10 hours. At $30/refill it's a minor added cost.

Home fill requires a hose to connect the two cylinders and knowledge of how to do it safely. High pressure oxygen and any hydrocarbon (grease, oil, etc.) should not be mixed unless you want a fire/explosion. The hoses can be purchased on line. The cylinder which receives the oxygen will get hot during the filling process.
 
murphey said:
Let's also discuss what the finger widget is really measuring, it's NOT the O2 level but the relative color intensity of the light thru the blood and skin. If you have CO at a high level, the color intensity will still indicate your O2 level is fine but it's really not. CO attaches to the O2 molecules in the blood and you get a false reading, one that appears that everything is fine.
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There are sensors that can tell the two (and more) apart, but they're relatively expensive and unwieldy.
 
murphey said:
Let's also discuss what the finger widget is really measuring, it's NOT the O2 level but the relative color intensity of the light thru the blood and skin. If you have CO at a high level, the color intensity will still indicate your O2 level is fine but it's really not. CO attaches to the O2 molecules in the blood and you get a false reading, one that appears that everything is fine.
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Thank you for that. I had no idea how the oximeter we use worked!
 
Jay Honeck said:
Thank you for that. I had no idea how the oximeter we use worked!
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I had the same misunderstanding until a few months ago when I attended a seminar on "aviation medicine for dummies" and an AME and and EMT explained how they really work. Of course the 2 of them together was the funniest comedy team I've seen in years! I'll try to find the reference the EMT gave that described it.
 
Clark1961 said:
Home fill requires a hose to connect the two cylinders and knowledge of how to do it safely. High pressure oxygen and any hydrocarbon (grease, oil, etc.) should not be mixed unless you want a fire/explosion. The hoses can be purchased on line. The cylinder which receives the oxygen will get hot during the filling process.
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Ideally, you don't even want any skin oil from your fingers getting in the fittings where it could come into contact with high pressure O2. I wash my hands before filling and make sure my fittings are completely clean. Opening the supply tank's valve very slowly and filling as slowly as you can, will keep the receiving tank from getting too hot.
Aerox makes fill kits and adapters and you can buy them thru Aircraft Spruce cheaper than directly from Aerox.
 
mtuomi said:
Someone who's 50+yo and been smoking for 40 years probably would have been.
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I happened to just do my high altitude endorsement over the weekend and one of the things they taught was that smokers and non-smokers actually cross over at some point. Non-smokers can take in O2 better than smokers, obviously, but one of the side effects is that the smokers biology thinks that it's living at 5 or 8 or 10K feet all the time and the body compensates for that by making more red blood cells. So, as altitude rises the smoker is less effected than the non-smoker who has less O2 carrying capacity to begin with. Eventually (at a level that varies by individuals) the non-smoker actually passes the smoke and becomes *more* effected by the altitude than the smoker.

Not that people should go out and build up a protective coating of tars on their lungs, but it's just crazy how many variables end up in play for this topic.
 
rwellner98 said:
I happened to just do my high altitude endorsement over the weekend and one of the things they taught was that smokers and non-smokers actually cross over at some point. Non-smokers can take in O2 better than smokers, obviously, but one of the side effects is that the smokers biology thinks that it's living at 5 or 8 or 10K feet all the time and the body compensates for that by making more red blood cells. So, as altitude rises the smoker is less effected than the non-smoker who has less O2 carrying capacity to begin with. Eventually (at a level that varies by individuals) the non-smoker actually passes the smoke and becomes *more* effected by the altitude than the smoker.

Not that people should go out and build up a protective coating of tars on their lungs, but it's just crazy how many variables end up in play for this topic.
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Another interesting detail.....

Thanks...
 
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