Lots of us are engineers

Brian Austin said:
Wow, you too? ;)
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Don't pretend like you didn't know this - YOU spend half your time calling me one in the management forums! ;)
 
Greebo said:
Don't pretend like you didn't know this - YOU spend half your time calling me one in the management forums! ;)
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You should hear what I call you behind your back! :D
 
Brian Austin said:
You should hear what I call you behind your back! :D
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What makes you think I haven't been reading your PMs? ;):rofl:
 
You told me you burned those! AND THE NEGATIVES!!!
 
Greebo said:
You told me you burned those! AND THE NEGATIVES!!!
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Did I tell you that? I don't REMEMBER saying something like that. :D

Did you want to send a check or money order this time? :hairraise:
 
Brian Austin said:
Did I tell you that? I don't REMEMBER saying something like that. :D

Did you want to send a check or money order this time? :hairraise:
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Ohhhh noooo!

Quick, we need more people to sign up for extra features at PoA!!! :rofl::rofl:
 
Production engineer (manager of production engineering) in the automotive industry. Degreed mechanical engineer, but mostly problem solving nowadays. Oh, and I fly too.
 
deafsound said:
Sound engineer here too.
Mostly recording, but I cut my teeth on live sound.
What I do is really hardly engineering tho---it's art.
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Only when you do it right. But I agree, that with the advent of high-resolution digital recording, the engineering we had to do back in the old days (1990 and earlier) to tweak the analog gear to get an accurate recording is gone.

Lot of engineering (i.e. math driven) work in live sound still, particulary when setting up multipath sound reinforcement, or (god forbid) doing live recording in a place like a concert hall where you may want to calculate acoustic dead zones or places where you get weird phasing effects.

Since you're in boston (I went to BU, MIT, and then finally Bzerklee), have you ever been in the mapariium in the Christian Science Center? I always used to take my acoustics students there so they could experience the physics of sound. For those who've never been, the Maparium is a glass globe with a hall cut through it, so it's possible to walk inside the globe. Once inside you'll hear a whispered conversation from 10 feet away, but someone next to you could be talking at full voice and you wouldn't hear him.

Best wishes,
 
I'm a product design engineer working for a smaller supplier to the auto industry. I design plastic parts for upcoming vehicles. I've had a ham license and commercial radio telephone license for the past 30 years but I haven't done anything electrical for a long time now.

I've always liked the story about the optimist, the pessimist and the engineer. It's the one where the pessimist sees a glass and says it half empty while the optimist says the glass is half full.

Then there is the engineer who looks at the glass and says this glass is twice as big as it need be.

Then there are the young playfull engineers who would say this glass is too big for that small amount of beer so let's go fill it up with more beer. :goofy::rofl:

Jeannie
 
Well, I guess this is the place to ask my question:

I've observed that it's very easy to hear folks lower down the mountain (even normal voice level conversations) but those same folks can't hear me further up even if I yell. Why zat?

Long time, no hear, Jeannie.
 
TMetzinger said:
Only when you do it right. But I agree, that with the advent of high-resolution digital recording, the engineering we had to do back in the old days (1990 and earlier) to tweak the analog gear to get an accurate recording is gone.

Lot of engineering (i.e. math driven) work in live sound still, particulary when setting up multipath sound reinforcement, or (god forbid) doing live recording in a place like a concert hall where you may want to calculate acoustic dead zones or places where you get weird phasing effects.

Since you're in boston (I went to BU, MIT, and then finally Bzerklee), have you ever been in the mapariium in the Christian Science Center? I always used to take my acoustics students there so they could experience the physics of sound. For those who've never been, the Maparium is a glass globe with a hall cut through it, so it's possible to walk inside the globe. Once inside you'll hear a whispered conversation from 10 feet away, but someone next to you could be talking at full voice and you wouldn't hear him.

Best wishes,
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Yeah, doing it right is the best idea---that way I don't have to think too much about technical stuff, and you're absolutley right---we don't really do any hardcore engineering these days. I never learned how to calibrate an analog tape deck very well, although I could do it if someone put a gun to my head.
The most math I've had to do for the live sound stuff is figuring out how many milliseconds to delay the speakers in the rear of the room. But that's not really math either---just count your footsteps from the front speaker to the rear speaker and delay 1ms per foot. Close enough for rock and roll. As far as the live recording stuff goes, I don't really need too much math for that either. I just put the mics where they sound good, and if they don't sound good there, I move them till they do. Oh, and if I screw it up phase wise, I can fix it on the computer by time shifting things around. No math there either.
Finally, yes, I've been to the mapparium. Weird place, for sure. I'm always afraid to talk in there if there are strangers in there with me.
 
Richard said:
Well, I guess this is the place to ask my question:

I've observed that it's very easy to hear folks lower down the mountain (even normal voice level conversations) but those same folks can't hear me further up even if I yell. Why zat?

Long time, no hear, Jeannie.
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Because you're farther away?:)

Probably has to do with the density of the air. From what I remember, sound travels better thru dense things (like steel or water) than it does thru air. When you're up higher, there's less air density for the sound to move thru.
I'm sure someone else here could answer this with much more authority than I can.
 
Same reason you can throw further downhill than uphill.

Sound is motion - motion requires force. Uphill is fighting gravity. Downhill is aided by it.
 
And if the air density is changing THAT much going up hill or downhill a few feet - we're in serious trouble. :)
 
Even if density is changing that much, the problem is still not solved because sound is traveling both ways A--B, B--A. Even if the sound is being refracted by differing densities we're not talking that much distance...
 
Greebo said:
And if the air density is changing THAT much going up hill or downhill a few feet - we're in serious trouble. :)
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I think I misunderstood the question.
I understood it more as "If I'm at sea level, people can hear me, but if I'm at 10k' it's harder for people to hear me". Hence the air density comment.
The other reason that people that are up the mountain can't hear you as well could be that if they are walking up the mountain, and you are behind them, their ears are pointing away from you. When you're outside, there's not always a lot of things for sound to bounce off of, unless there's a lot of tall pine trees or rocks or whatever.
 
Taylor said:
Hmm, not an engineer, but I work them all the time. I’m an architect. I’m sure that plenty of engineers have cursed my name.

What do you mean that you can’t make the building stand up without extra walls and columns?!? I am not changing my design. Just make it work.

You want to put all of that mechanical equipment where? And it’s how big? No, I didn’t leave room for it, actually. I was kinda hoping it would just fit.

Taylor
Frustrating engineers in the Bay Area since 1999 :D
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LOL! YOU!!!!!!!!!!

I used to work in structural steel as a detailer/draftsman/engineer - even though I didn't have the degree - we just had an outside firm stamp everything for us. Liability concnerns by the owner I think.

I can't even begin to count the number of times the architects didn't think. Conversatations would go like this:

"Hi, this is Ed @ SS&E can you look at doorway number XX?"
"Ok, I've got it, what is the question?"
"How deep is that beam and plate lintel?"
"Thirty-six inches."
"And what is the floor to floor distance from floor 1 to floor 2?"
"Nine feet."
"Do you see the problem?"
"No."
"You don't see ANY issue with this at all?"
"No."
"None at all?"
"What does a door opening have to be?"
"Eighty inches tall."
"How many inches from floor to floor?"
"108."
"What's 108 - 36?"
"72."
"Do you see the problem?"
"No."
"Is this building being made for midgets?"
"No. Why?"

Morons.
 
Greebo said:
Same reason you can throw further downhill than uphill.

Sound is motion - motion requires force. Uphill is fighting gravity. Downhill is aided by it.
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Heh heh, that's a good one, Chuck. Sound is like a softball... so, you're saying sound is a particle?
 
Richard said:
Heh heh, that's a good one, Chuck. Sound is like a softball... so, you're saying sound is a particle?
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And a wave, ya mon!
 
N2212R said:
LOL! YOU!!!!!!!!!!

I used to work in structural steel as a detailer/draftsman/engineer - even though I didn't have the degree - we just had an outside firm stamp everything for us. Liability concnerns by the owner I think.

I can't even begin to count the number of times the architects didn't think. Conversatations would go like this:

"Hi, this is Ed @ SS&E can you look at doorway number XX?"
"Ok, I've got it, what is the question?"
"How deep is that beam and plate lintel?"
"Thirty-six inches."
"And what is the floor to floor distance from floor 1 to floor 2?"
"Nine feet."
"Do you see the problem?"
"No."
"You don't see ANY issue with this at all?"
"No."
"None at all?"
"What does a door opening have to be?"
"Eighty inches tall."
"How many inches from floor to floor?"
"108."
"What's 108 - 36?"
"72."
"Do you see the problem?"
"No."
"Is this building being made for midgets?"
"No. Why?"

Morons.
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I'm sure that would be funny if I knew what a beam and plate lintel was? :)
 
deafsound said:
I think I misunderstood the question.
I understood it more as "If I'm at sea level, people can hear me, but if I'm at 10k' it's harder for people to hear me". Hence the air density comment.
The other reason that people that are up the mountain can't hear you as well could be that if they are walking up the mountain, and you are behind them, their ears are pointing away from you. When you're outside, there's not always a lot of things for sound to bounce off of, unless there's a lot of tall pine trees or rocks or whatever.
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Here is one actual observation: I'm on the side of a hill devoid of all flora. In still air I yell down to my buddies 75' in elevation below me that I'm taking the left fork of the trail towards an abandoned mine shaft. They can't hear me. But I can hear their every word even though they are conversing in normal tones. No one is listening to a radio nor is there any background noise.

I've observed this phenomena often enough to cause me to wonder.
 
gkainz said:
I was with VAW-112 deployed on the Nimitz for the '79-80 Med/Pac cruise. We sailed to the Med in the fall of '79 and redeployed to the Indian Ocean in January '80. Spent the next 5 months making nightly runs up into the Gulf of Oman, turning around and running back out again.
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Different era, he was aboard late 80's thru mid-90's.
 
I'm guessing he's referring to the distance between the ceiling of floor one to the ceiling of floor two, thus trying to get the architect to realise that he's made the usable height of the door at 72" or six feet.

Which would mean I bang my head alot...
 
Greebo said:
I'm sure that would be funny if I knew what a beam and plate lintel was? :)
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Here's a drawing, it's been 9 years since I've done this.
It's a plate welded to a beam that supports the block over a door opening.

bpl.jpg


And an elevation view:
elev.jpg
 
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Ok so he drew a door that was 6 feet tall. Gotcha.

Doh!
 
Greebo said:
Ok so he drew a door that was 6 feet tall. Gotcha.

Doh!
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Actually, no. He still wanted a 6-8 door. Must be that new Chicago math.:D
 
N2212R said:
Actually, no. He still wanted a 6-8 door. Must be that new Chicago math.:D
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And the other side of that is the builder followed the plans to the T--like on my neighbor's two story addition. The door to the balcony off the master bedroom was 4'6" because of the very same problem as decscribed by Ed. Everyone paid to fix that one.

As a builder--you know, the job no one wants--I cherish the few times I can nail the engineer. There's no fun in nailing the architect anymore--happens too often, where's the thrill in that?
 
Well, you know what they say: An engineer knows a lot about a one thing, an architect knows a little about many things.

If only architecture schools taught more than design. I have yet to see a school that acknowledges all of the components that make up buildings today and how they fit together.

And I have yet to have a client give adequate time to coordinate between the different engineers. Getting planning department approvals and starting digging in less than 6 months is not realistic, no matter how excited you are to make your big bucks on a spiffy new condo building.

I almost went into structural engineering – it is much more straightforward, but oy vey, too much math.:rolleyes:

Taylor
 
Greebo said:
Same reason you can throw further downhill than uphill.

Sound is motion - motion requires force. Uphill is fighting gravity. Downhill is aided by it.
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That doesn't compute Chuck. Sound is transmitted as changes in density of the air, the only motion is very local and AFaIK there is no direct influence of gravity. I suspect the real reason for the difference is due to the true motion of the air carrying the sound otherwise known as wind. Also there may have been some focusing effect from the terrain. Sound can be focused just like light or radio waves. There are still some remnants of giant sound focusing "mirrors" on the east coast of England that were used to detect incoming aircraft during the war. I'm told you can converse across the English channel with them.
 
Taylor said:
Well, you know what they say: An engineer knows a lot about a one thing, an architect knows a little about many things.
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Interesting comment. I'm an engineer with the title of systems architect at a company that produces inspection equipment for the printed circuit assembly industry. And I am expected to know a fair bit about every aspect of our products.
 
lancefisher said:
That doesn't compute Chuck. Sound is transmitted as changes in density of the air, the only motion is very local and AFaIK there is no direct influence of gravity. I suspect the real reason for the difference is due to the true motion of the air carrying the sound otherwise known as wind. Also there may have been some focusing effect from the terrain. Sound can be focused just like light or radio waves. There are still some remnants of giant sound focusing "mirrors" on the east coast of England that were used to detect incoming aircraft during the war. I'm told you can converse across the English channel with them.
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Think tongue in cheek, lance. :)
 
As an architect, I am expected to know quite a bit about how buildings go together, but I could not take over for the electrical, mechanical, or structural engineers. Architecture involves fitting all of the different pieces together, and to do that, I have to be able to intelligently discuss the various engineers’ work with them, but I do not know enough to do their jobs. I don’t know anyone who has that level of learning and skill. That’s why there are so many trades involved in building. Same as with the auto or computer industries, I would think. However, as always, I could be wrong. I didn’t mean to insult any engineers (I think that this thread proves that I am outnumbered on the board:p )

Taylor
 
I'm also an engineer (electrical). Taylor, what part of the country are you in? I've learned to oversize my electric rooms by 20-30% so I have enough room at the end of the project. Sometimes a little extra. :D
 
lancefisher said:
Interesting comment. I'm an engineer with the title of systems architect at a company that produces inspection equipment for the printed circuit assembly industry. And I am expected to know a fair bit about every aspect of our products.
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Generally my title is systems architect as well, and in the IT field that generally means someone who has obtained at least a journeyman's skill in all of the major skills needed to build the system, and has (hopefully) significant insights into how they all play together, so that while getting the various engineers to actually follow the design is an exercise in herding cats, the design should work pretty well.

At my engineering firm, to be marketed as a systems architect, someone has to have at least fifteen years experience and demonstrated skills in:
Operating Systems
Networks
Information Security
Databases
Messaging
Software Development Environments
Configuration Management
Project Managment
With professional certifications in at least three of the disciplines.

With over 1000 "engineers" we've only got about a dozen folks qualified for the title.

In many ways the title of Architect is like the title of Doctor, in that while it does generally denote a professional level of competence, there are HUGE variances in the depth and breadth of individuals.

Just like in flying, the learning never stops, and the more tools you have in your bag, the better off you are.

Best wishes,
 
Chemical Engineer by degree, but haven't done that kind of stuff for a loong time.
 
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