Lost comms on flight following

MAKG1

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MAKG
Just posting this 'cause the question gets asked from time to time.

It was a nonevent.

Ferrying an aircraft below a 3000 foot ceiling from Oakland to San Jose/Reid, I was lower than normal for an approach into Reid. I noticed I was getting a bit closer to Class D than normal, so I asked NorCal for a frequency change, reporting I had information B and the field in sight.

I got no response. Nor did I hear anything on frequency. I repeated it, and noticed the "TX" marker on the radio. It worked. Got nothing.

I was sandwiched between the San Jose Class C and a mountain ridge, so circling would have been a bit tight, and a bit bumpy. Overflying the top of Class D was possible, but tighter than I'd like (it's a 2000 foot airspace ceiling and 3000 foot cloud ceiling). I briefly considered squawking 7600 and proceeding, but figured I should try Reid Tower first. I did so, and they responded.

I told them I had lost contact with NorCal, and they said they would relay that, and tell them I'm fine. I suspect it was terrain shadowing. I was below nearby mountain peaks on the east. Or maybe the controllers were just really busy on another frequency. The previous controller had been handling a lot of instrument approaches through the overcast, and at least a couple of deviations around a cell well to the east.

So, it's all fine. No airspace busts, no annoyed controllers, and no ALNOT. But maybe a bit of warning that radio coverage isn't everywhere, even over the city.
 
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Thanks for this. Always like hearing about what people do when they have comm issues, I think it's an under practiced and under trained skill so good to hear (read) others' stories

My kneeboard has a light gun signal reference on it, hopefully never have to use it

Out of curiosity, in a real world lost comms (VFR), would you try fiddling with your cell phone and AFD to find a number and call ATC, or would you just 7600 it and look for the green light? IMC I assume you would try the cell..?

I do fly with a small Sporty's handheld, but who knows how effective the range on that thing would be
 
I lost contact with Approach on FF due to lowering ceilings and terrain. Looking at the sectional, I saw there was a nearby FSS frequency. Called them to relay everhing was fine.
 
I lost contact with Approach on FF due to lowering ceilings and terrain. Looking at the sectional, I saw there was a nearby FSS frequency. Called them to relay everhing was fine.

No need for a sectional...122.2 is the FSS common frequency.
 
Lost comms happen. Had it happen IFR as well. Actually, the first thing I do is pull up the nearest ATC outlet (typically, at the altitudes I tend to fly at, it's the one on the nearest instrument approach). More often than not, that's the one I should have been handed off to.

I was talking to the old Washington approach and realized over the Bay somewhere I couldn't hear them anymore. Transmitted a cancellation in the blind and switched to 1200. By the time I got to Ocean City, there were aircraft calling on the CTAF me trying to check that I was OK. Interestingly enough, I had ZTL have me pop over to an airport Unicom and chase down a "lost comm" VFR there as well.
 
Flying into KVGT (N Las Vegas) a month ago I lost comms with Nellis Approach. The area has HEAVY military traffic and solid Restricted areas to the East and mountains to the West. I called KVGT tower and they gave me another frequency to call. Nellis immediately answered and quickly gave me a frequency change back to the tower. In this case I think Nellis simply dropped me.
 
I had two interesting VFR comm issues. Both involving handoffs after departure from IAD.

27K: Dulles Approach, Navion 5327K, level 3000.
(nothing, try again. nothing, try the other radio, nothing, just about to try a different frequency and try one more time).
27K: Dulles Approach, Navion 5327K
IAD: Navion 5327K, go ahead.
27K: We were handed off to you.
IAD: Oh, How are you?
27K: Fine, how are you?

The other one was a double whammy.

27K: Dulles approach, nobody answers on 124.65.
IAD: Hold on....try 126.65

that worked and then I was told to contact Washington approach on 118.950. Nobody there either.
27K: Nobody answers on 118.950.
IAD: (laughter). Try 119.850...this time for sure!
 
I fell into a radio black hole while on FF just east of KJFK. I heard them calling me but could not reach them. I ended up changing from NY approach to MacArthur
tower (KISP), made contact, and they straightened it out with KJFK. KISP also told me there was a known dead spot there. This happened at least 5 years ago.
 
Here in the southwest I will occasionally get, N12345 in 10 miles switch to center freq 123.45. Try them every 10 miles until you get them.

One time in Juneau I did have a lost comm situation. I was VFR and wanting to get in to Juneau. I just pulled the cell phone and called the tower. That is pretty much the norm there.
 
On my last flight, Oakland Center handed me off to Norcal Approach pretty far out. I was unable to raise them, so I initiated a climb from 6500 to 8500, and was able to contact them by the time I reached 7500. The controller said I could stay at 7500 if I wanted to, but I forgot that the hemispheric rule says "unless otherwise authorized by ATC," so I continued up to 8500.
 
On my last flight, Oakland Center handed me off to Norcal Approach pretty far out. I was unable to raise them, so I initiated a climb from 6500 to 8500, and was able to contact them by the time I reached 7500. The controller said I could stay at 7500 if I wanted to, but I forgot that the hemispheric rule says "unless otherwise authorized by ATC," so I continued up to 8500.

In my case, climbing (VFR) was not an option due to a 3000 foot ceiling. I'm sure it would have been fine at my usual 3500 foot altitude at that location.

IFR was not an option for budget reasons. It takes 15 minutes to fly OAK->RHV VFR, and close to 45 minutes IFR because of the way the DP and IAP are arranged. AFROTC flights are really, really budget restricted.
 
As a student I lost comm on my long XC solo ... could receive, but could not transmit (tried both inputs, PTT's etc. no joy). Squawked 7600 and ATC had me use ident to communicate/respond. As there would be scattered storms in the destination area later that day, I elected to return to base.
 
Agreed, VFR FF lost coms are not a big problem. Afterall, they are following your flight on radar, hence the name. With some occasional traffic advisories sprinkled in. :)

Had two non-events too:
First one was when returning to my home drome (Delta airport) from a long X/C and the approach controller was way too busy for a single frequency (not sure how those guys do it but never skipped a beat).
I could not get a word in. I tried maybe once or twice but didn't want to step on anybody, especially IFR traffic, since I was just an unimportant VFR FLIB.
7 miles from destination, still descending, I called the Delta tower and remarked that I could not get ahold of the approach guy, they just said "np".

Second one was a grumpy Houston controller (I hear they are always awesome but this gentleman was just having a bad day for some reason).
"N12345, you might want to climb".
"Unable, we are below OVC".
"But another airplane behind you climbed up just fine".
"Roger but I am underneath solid OVC, no holes here, I'll climb up as soon as I see open sky".
" *grump* *grump* If you stay at 2000, we might lose radar and/or contact".
"Understood".
That was the end of the conversation.
5 minutes later, the layer opened up with big gaps and I called in "Found blue sky, climbing up" and got a "Roger".
Well, I guess this wasn't a lost com situation but was just expected to be one by the controller. I was pretty nonchalant about it with my "understood" because there was no danger, I was in VMC and there was no requirement for me to stay in constant contact with ATC over rural TX on a gorgeous flying day.

Now go fly, people! It is an amazing day outside and I am stuck at work!! :(
 
As a student I lost comm on my long XC solo ... could receive, but could not transmit (tried both inputs, PTT's etc. no joy). Squawked 7600 and ATC had me use ident to communicate/respond. As there would be scattered storms in the destination area later that day, I elected to return to base.
Me too... although the reason was poor radio reception over a stretch of western Michigan (this was 15 years ago). I had basically flown into a radio black hole. Tried desperately to reestablish contact with ATC (Minneapolis Center) to no avail until I was approaching Muskegon airspace. Eventually established with Muskegon Approach (IIRC) who told me that ZMP had been trying to contact me for at least a half hour and was about ready to begin SAR on me. They might have been trying, but at that altitude (4500, and this was 2002), I couldn't hear them to save my life.

Another time I had to 7600 while on VFR FF because my GPS (a 480, and COM1) had become unseated. This was on the way back from having a new windshield installed, and the shop had basically messed up reinstalling the GPS. Eventually figured it out and switched to COM2, no harm, no foul.

Totally agree that lost comm when VFR is a non-issue. IFR, of course, different story...
 
Losing comms is a problem for everyone when in controlled airspace. Especially if approaching or inside a B, C or D layer cake.
 
Losing comms is a problem for everyone when in controlled airspace. Especially if approaching or inside a B, C or D layer cake.
I once had lost com VFR in Oakland's class C surface area. (My PTT switch was stuck and I couldn't get it to release no matter how many times I poked it.) Fortunately, I was on a standard VFR transition route, so I just continued on the normal route until I was outside their airspace.
 
No need for a sectional...122.2 is the FSS common frequency.
I felt It was better to find a nearby VOR to ensure a reliable connection since I already lost comm with ATC due to lack of line of sight.
 
One time in Juneau I did have a lost comm situation. I was VFR and wanting to get in to Juneau. I just pulled the cell phone and called the tower. That is pretty much the norm there.
How could you hear anything on your cell?
 
Lose comm when FF regularly (inna boonies).
I never follow up, and it has never been an issue.
 
I felt It was better to find a nearby VOR to ensure a reliable connection
I was always taught to listen on VORs as well, since it would be a "better connection" - not sure if there is truth to that but that's how I've always done it. Feels kind of old school though
 
I was always taught to listen on VORs as well, since it would be a "better connection" - not sure if there is truth to that but that's how I've always done it. Feels kind of old school though

As far as I know, the only reason for that is that the VOR frequency is transmit-only, so no one can step on the controller. In that way, with a VOR tuned on receive and and transmitting on a COMM frequency, you have full-duplex. Stuck mic or whatever won't get in your way.
 
As far as I know, the only reason for that is that the VOR frequency is transmit-only, so no one can step on the controller. In that way, with a VOR tuned on receive and and transmitting on a COMM frequency, you have full-duplex. Stuck mic or whatever won't get in your way.
How would you transmit on a NAV radio?

I haven't seen a panel that would permit that.
 
How would you transmit on a NAV radio?

I haven't seen a panel that would permit that.
You don't. That was my point. Since the VOR is only a transmitter and since the radios aren't set up to transmit on those frequencies, there will be no stepping on the controller. Of course, you have to transmit on the COMM frequency, as I noted, but the fact that you're using two frequencies means that you have full-duplex communication. (To the controller, anyway. Still can step on other pilots.)

Having a hard time finding a pairing on the charts as an example. I'm sure most are gone these days.

EDIT: Ah, found one. PXN. 122.1 receive but 112.6 transmit for flight service.
 
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There are not any controllers on these frequencies. Just FSS guys.
 
I was always taught to listen on VORs as well, since it would be a "better connection" - not sure if there is truth to that but that's how I've always done it. Feels kind of old school though

Better connection not by nature of using a VOR, but because it's probably the closest RCO. Many RCOs do not offer 122.2. Also theoretically there should be less frequency congestion than using 122.2.
 
Better connection not by nature of using a VOR, but because it's probably the closest RCO. Many RCOs do not offer 122.2. Also theoretically there should be less frequency congestion than using 122.2.
Not all RCOs are associated with VORs.

The closest one to my home airport is the Mountain View RCO, 122.5. It's not at Woodside (OSI) VOR, though it isn't all that far. Some 7-8 miles southeast on the same ridgeline.

There are also unassociated RCOs on Mt. Tam and west of Stockton, just in my area. These aren't very rare.
 
Not all RCOs are associated with VORs.

The closest one to my home airport is the Mountain View RCO, 122.5. It's not at Woodside (OSI) VOR, though it isn't all that far. Some 7-8 miles southeast on the same ridgeline...
I thought that RCO was decommissioned.
 
I'm glad to hear it's back!
Well, I think we'll have to try to use it to see if it's really back....

Personally, I don't like talking to FSS anywhere near the Bay. I've taken to opening and closing VFR flight plans with a text message (1800wxbrief.com). I'd rather stay with NorCal for anything. Flight following, night IFR clearances, whatever.

There is just too much traffic to mess with that. And I can reach NorCal or Moffett Tower from the ground. :D
 
I have used that frequency lately, but I just assumed that there was another RCO on the same frequency. Maybe not.
 
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