Looking for advice- Military exploring PPL

Sir Oglesby

Filing Flight Plan
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Sir Oglesby
Hello all,

I am currently AD serving military member located in Riverview and I'm trying to figure out the most cost efficient means of obtaining my PPL.

I understand some schools have partnerships with a couple online schools with BS programs that would allow me to use GI Bill, however, I already have my Bachelor's and would prefer to not initiate GI funding just for a few classes and potentially lose the remaining funding later on.

The other issue I have is my current work schedule. I work 12 hr shifts and I work mids (1700-0500). Is this untenable in pursuing a PPL?

Any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks.

-Joshua
 
Sorry, I didn't elaborate, I'm in Riverview Florida.
 
You get a couple days off a week correct? That’s enough time to knock out a PPL. I did mine just on my off days. As a lowly E-3 it’s a pain financially but instead of partying and buying beer in my off time, I did flight training. Took about 6 months.
 
I already have my Bachelor's and would prefer to not initiate GI funding just for a few classes and potentially lose the remaining funding later on.a
Probably not relevant for you, but I used Vietnam era GI Bill for multi-engine training then still had enough left over for an undergraduate engineering degree. Rules doubtless have changed but you might look into a split objective of some kind.
 
GI Bill funding is for advanced certificates and ratings beyond the Private Certificate.

If you can find a school program that includes primary training, that would be great, but fitting in the time while on Active Duty might be a stretch.
 
No military flying clubs anymore?

Handful left.
Air Force:
https://myairforcelife.com/aero-club-directory/

Navy
https://www.navymwr.org/programs/navy-flying-club

I don’t know if the Army has any left.

About 25 years ago, Congress stipulated DOD Morale, Welfare, & Recreation activities had to be self-sustaining. Aero clubs were the first to go as that required the staff to be NAF employees or contracted out (maintenance, primarily) and paid as such and unsubsidized rates had to be charged.

A lot of golf courses, and rod & gun clubs have shuttered as well.
 
I'll bet that's where the Officer's Clubs went.

In many places if there’s a club it’s now a combined club with (usually) separate bars. That same Congressional effort effectively banned membership pressures. Add to it cultural change that no longer endorsed alcohol use and those nails were driven into the coffin.
 
Yep, I think the change in culture in how the military views drinking these days killed the O club. Reflects on deployments today as well. Vietnam, the guys could gather at club and get hammered after a stressful day. Today, you’d get an Article 15 for that. Plus, I just think units today aren’t as tight as what they used to be. Everyone has something going on after work and gathering at the bar to shoot the **** isn’t high on their list of priorities.
 
The story at the link is fictionalized but parts are true, eerily so.

I was at Rucker as an officer student in 1968, when the Cessna and the Cadillac were parked in front of the O Club as bingo prizes. Incredible sight to see, even then. A major friend of mine won the Eldorado (black with a white top). All I ever won was a free drink but seriously wanted the airplane.

And in 1974 I met a beautiful but sad woman who had lost two husbands in Vietnam. She was on her third, another aviator. Nice guy, in my IOAC class at Benning. I thought it unusual she never smiled, until I found out her story.

That era was hard to describe, but it happened.

https://thedaysforward.com/fort-rucker-1978/
 
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In many places if there’s a club it’s now a combined club with (usually) separate bars. That same Congressional effort effectively banned membership pressures. Add to it cultural change that no longer endorsed alcohol use and those nails were driven into the coffin.
Tailhook eff’d everything up
 
Tailhook eff’d everything up

That had a big part of it but some of it started even earlier in Desert Storm with General Order 1. In the 90s the military started shifting to what they believed to be a more professional, politically correct force…soft. It’s gotten to the point today that war fighting is on the back burner to more important social issues. So glad I’m no longer in.
 
Sporty’s Pilot Shop has a good selection of ground school courses.

If there’s a Community College nearby, they might offer aviation classes including ground school.

Good Luck.
 
Howdy. As stated earlier, it’s difficult if not impossible to use the GI Bill to get a PPL, but you can use it for any certificates after that if you go to a 141 school…which would be difficult to do while working. Using TA would also be difficult since you already have a bachelors.

I’d call around to some of the many flight schools in the Tampa area and see if any of them offer a military discount. I’m not familiar with the area, but I’d bet there’s a few that do.

The schedule shouldn’t present a problem. You could easily schedule two lessons a week either before work or immediately after work…some CFIs love training early. And you could also schedule a lesson or two on your days off. It will be exhausting and a lot of work, but it’s certainly possible to work through a PPL with your schedule. Heck, it’s exhausting and a lot of work on any schedule.

Central FL is home to tons of good flight schools. Ask around, and use social media to find some local pilots groups. Local word of mouth will be much better info than what you will find elsewhere. Just find a flight school that’s flexible with your schedule, has a good reputation, and gives you the warm fuzzies when you’re there.

Good luck in your aviation endeavors. And thanks for volunteering to serve.
 
Just reading the book “Above Average…Naval Aviation The Hard Way.” The author mentions the O club at China lake being a hub of activity. That was the early 60s. Today, it’s not even mentioned as an O club. It’s the Barefoot Bar. Still hosts activities but isn’t an exclusive hangout for officers. Reminds me of the O Club at Miramar. There were times it was limited to officers but could be reserved for other events as well. My farewell party was held there. A fitting tribute for a Sgt I guess.:D

Maybe not related but I also noticed a lot of O Clubs are situated near base golf courses. Possibly a decline golf in has precipitated the death of the O Club?
 
What branch of the military do you serve in Joshua?
 
Just reading the book “Above Average…Naval Aviation The Hard Way.” The author mentions the O club at China lake being a hub of activity. That was the early 60s. Today, it’s not even mentioned as an O club. It’s the Barefoot Bar. Still hosts activities but isn’t an exclusive hangout for officers. Reminds me of the O Club at Miramar. There were times it was limited to officers but could be reserved for other events as well. My farewell party was held there. A fitting tribute for a Sgt I guess.:D

Maybe not related but I also noticed a lot of O Clubs are situated near base golf courses. Possibly a decline golf in has precipitated the death of the O Club?
I knew it was only a matter of time before O Clubs were done when the military police stopped every car leaving the O Club parking lot on the night of the Wing Christmas party for breathalyzer tests. No warning or announcement to expect this. Merry Christmas!

I stopped by Randolph AFB the other day and even the auto hobby shop was shuttered.
 
O clubs varied. Many were like a fairly high end restaurant.

The Stag Bar, later Casual Bar, was the place where wild things happened. Or so I have been told. :D

Anybody played crud?
 
Looks like Liberty is out of the GI Bill flight training business for the time being.
789542f056dc3508beae00588179dea7.jpg
 
Yikes. Liberty is a sizable organization. Wonder what happened?
 
O clubs varied. Many were like a fairly high end restaurant.

The Stag Bar, later Casual Bar, was the place where wild things happened. Or so I have been told. :D

Anybody played crud?

We played Crud until our fingers were bruised and even had league play with teams from the various aviation units from our base in Korea.

The Officer's Club went away after that tour. We had fun while it lasted, I guess. Those days are gone...
 
We played Crud until our fingers were bruised...
There was an Eagle driver that got a knee blown out during full contact Crud at either Tyndall or Eglin, I can’t remember which, in the late 90s.

It looked painful when it happened.
 
There was an Eagle driver that got a knee blown out during full contact Crud at either Tyndall or Eglin, I can’t remember which, in the late 90s.

It looked painful when it happened.

During a 2 on 2 match, we had a midair collision that resulted in a loud clunking noise and two sore heads. Nobody was seriously injured, but we laughed so hard we had to suspend play for a while.
 
Howdy. As stated earlier, it’s difficult if not impossible to use the GI Bill to get a PPL, but you can use it for any certificates after that if you go to a 141 school…which would be difficult to do while working. Using TA would also be difficult since you already have a bachelors.

I’d call around to some of the many flight schools in the Tampa area and see if any of them offer a military discount. I’m not familiar with the area, but I’d bet there’s a few that do.

The schedule shouldn’t present a problem. You could easily schedule two lessons a week either before work or immediately after work…some CFIs love training early. And you could also schedule a lesson or two on your days off. It will be exhausting and a lot of work, but it’s certainly possible to work through a PPL with your schedule. Heck, it’s exhausting and a lot of work on any schedule.

Central FL is home to tons of good flight schools. Ask around, and use social media to find some local pilots groups. Local word of mouth will be much better info than what you will find elsewhere. Just find a flight school that’s flexible with your schedule, has a good reputation, and gives you the warm fuzzies when you’re there.

Good luck in your aviation endeavors. And thanks for volunteering to serve.
Thanks for the awesome response. With my schedule, I think that would be difficult. I work about 14 hrs a day, 5 days one week, 2 the next. So maybe on my short weeks it would be possible. One thing I have no intention of is flying sleepy, I've made it through enough in life to make a mistake like that.

Do you think twice every 2 weeks would be enough or is it too little?
 
Looks like Liberty is out of the GI Bill flight training business for the time being.
789542f056dc3508beae00588179dea7.jpg
I appreciate this update. One of my troops was hoping to get his ppl through Liberty. Fortunately enough the flight school he was hoping to use has another school that offers the same program.
 
Thanks for the awesome response. With my schedule, I think that would be difficult. I work about 14 hrs a day, 5 days one week, 2 the next. So maybe on my short weeks it would be possible. One thing I have no intention of is flying sleepy, I've made it through enough in life to make a mistake like that.

Do you think twice every 2 weeks would be enough or is it too little?

You will get varying answers, but the long and short of it is - it depends. If you're attempting to get through the training as quickly and efficiently as possible, no. It's nowhere near enough. If you're okay with taking more hours and more time to reach the checkride, and dealing with some frustration over how slowly everything is going, you should be able to make it okay. Don't expect to solo in the first five or ten hours and don't expect to take your checkride at 40 hours. Are your weekends filled up completely? If you could get out to the airport on Saturday and/or Sunday once a week, and then fly tons on your short weeks, it would probably work out better.

Flying twice every two weeks will result in a lot of each lesson being review, especially in the first several hours, as you are trying to build a lot of muscle memory in an environment that is not "normal" (unless you grew up in a GA plane like some lucky ducks do!).
 
Thanks for the awesome response. With my schedule, I think that would be difficult. I work about 14 hrs a day, 5 days one week, 2 the next. So maybe on my short weeks it would be possible. One thing I have no intention of is flying sleepy, I've made it through enough in life to make a mistake like that.

Do you think twice every 2 weeks would be enough or is it too little?


I agree with skychaser’s post above. Sure, it can be done, but it will depend on you. It will take a lot of discipline and self motivation. If you completely tune out aviation during your work week and try to cram during your short weeks, then yeah, it’s going to take a long time and lots of money, as your first training flight of the week will be nothing but getting you back up to where you were on your previous flight.

But if you really want it, and can buckle down and focus, then you can get there on two flights every other week. To reiterate what skychaser said, it will require a lot more hours; 80 to 100 hours flight time would not be inconceivable. You could think of this as an upper level college course with a lab… most of your work will be, or should be, done at home and you go to the course and lab to demonstrate what you have learned and get answers to anything you don’t understand.

There are a lot of tools you can use to help you learn at home. First and foremost is to immerse yourself in the material and dedicate time every day, even on long work days, to learning. The PHAK and Airplane Flying Handbook are free to download from the FAA. Every single test question will come from these two books, word for word. You can download them and study them cover to cover, and fully understand the material inside them.

Another tool at your disposal is “chair flying.” Chair flying is simply what it sounds like…mentally flying the plane while sitting in a chair. On your first day of training, or even on a discovery flight, you can take pictures of the cockpit of the plane…take a lot of pics, of every instrument and gauge, circuit breaker panels, throttle/mixture assembly, rudder pedals, compass, interior, door handles, fire extinguisher, everything. Then study those pictures and memorize the location of every button, switch, handle, and display. What you are trying to do here is to memorize and know where everything is so you are not paying money to find it. You could be paying up to $5 a minute while that prop is spinning…you don’t want to spend that money learning where the silly vacuum gauge is. Then start chair flying. Find someplace quite, sit in a chair, close your eyes, and completely fly your last flight and your expected next flight. Go through every motion from reading the checklist and touching the (imaginary) checklist item in front of you. Go through engine start, taxi, make all your radio calls, imagine a response and respond to that, fly the entire flight, land, taxi back, shut down, and park. You get the idea. You can also use some item in your hand to simulate the flight controls. Don’t forget to move your feet for rudder use. And the hardest part, you need to do this at least once every non-flying day, even on weekends, even when your tired.

Yet another tool is home flight sims. These can help with learning procedures, how to read and understand instruments, and button/knob switchology. I personally prefer chair flying, but flight sims certainly have their place.

*i’m not an instructor. These suggestions may or may not work for you. I’m only suggesting them as they are what worked for me.


Hope this helps, and good luck.
 
I agree with skychaser’s post above. Sure, it can be done, but it will depend on you. It will take a lot of discipline and self motivation. If you completely tune out aviation during your work week and try to cram during your short weeks, then yeah, it’s going to take a long time and lots of money, as your first training flight of the week will be nothing but getting you back up to where you were on your previous flight.

But if you really want it, and can buckle down and focus, then you can get there on two flights every other week. To reiterate what skychaser said, it will require a lot more hours; 80 to 100 hours flight time would not be inconceivable. You could think of this as an upper level college course with a lab… most of your work will be, or should be, done at home and you go to the course and lab to demonstrate what you have learned and get answers to anything you don’t understand.

There are a lot of tools you can use to help you learn at home. First and foremost is to immerse yourself in the material and dedicate time every day, even on long work days, to learning. The PHAK and Airplane Flying Handbook are free to download from the FAA. Every single test question will come from these two books, word for word. You can download them and study them cover to cover, and fully understand the material inside them.

Another tool at your disposal is “chair flying.” Chair flying is simply what it sounds like…mentally flying the plane while sitting in a chair. On your first day of training, or even on a discovery flight, you can take pictures of the cockpit of the plane…take a lot of pics, of every instrument and gauge, circuit breaker panels, throttle/mixture assembly, rudder pedals, compass, interior, door handles, fire extinguisher, everything. Then study those pictures and memorize the location of every button, switch, handle, and display. What you are trying to do here is to memorize and know where everything is so you are not paying money to find it. You could be paying up to $5 a minute while that prop is spinning…you don’t want to spend that money learning where the silly vacuum gauge is. Then start chair flying. Find someplace quite, sit in a chair, close your eyes, and completely fly your last flight and your expected next flight. Go through every motion from reading the checklist and touching the (imaginary) checklist item in front of you. Go through engine start, taxi, make all your radio calls, imagine a response and respond to that, fly the entire flight, land, taxi back, shut down, and park. You get the idea. You can also use some item in your hand to simulate the flight controls. Don’t forget to move your feet for rudder use. And the hardest part, you need to do this at least once every non-flying day, even on weekends, even when your tired.

Yet another tool is home flight sims. These can help with learning procedures, how to read and understand instruments, and button/knob switchology. I personally prefer chair flying, but flight sims certainly have their place.

*i’m not an instructor. These suggestions may or may not work for you. I’m only suggesting them as they are what worked for me.


Hope this helps, and good luck.
I appreciate the insight. I currently fly aims, both DCS and MFS and I'm very familiar with the PHAK. I was previously a SUAS instructor and all meteorological and everything aeronautical came from it. Hopefully that might save some time and expense, but I'm in no rush.
 
In many places if there’s a club it’s now a combined club with (usually) separate bars. That same Congressional effort effectively banned membership pressures. Add to it cultural change that no longer endorsed alcohol use and those nails were driven into the coffin.
All Ranks Clubs are the norm now, driven by multiple forces:
- Evolution of the force from draft to professional
- Less cultural separation between officers and enlisted
- More and better civilian alternatives off base

Fort Bragg and Benning are good examples. 40 years ago, Hay Street in Fayetteville was legendary for mayhem and debauchery. Now it's all high-end foodie cafes. And young troops and their families are there.

The Infantry Bar at the Ft Benning O-Club was likewise wild. I am old enough to remember strippers there during happy hour, and having MPs called was not unusual. In the 70's, drinking during lunch was allowed.

It's tempting to see those as good old days, but they were not. The services hid a lot of dysfunctional people. Today&s military is far more effective and professional.
 
…The services hid a lot of dysfunctional people...
My first operational unit O-6 commander bragged that it ‘only’ took him 3 DUIs to make it to O-6. Seems his year group was averaging 1 DUI per pay grade on the way up.
 
Drinking is still very popular in the military despite what image the military wants to project. Guarantee you have just as many DUIs today as 40 years ago, it’s just not on base anymore. The rise of deployments after 9/11 and the stresses associated with that have fueled binge drinking. Like trying to suppress fraternization. It’s gonna happen.

I remember at Rucker (Novosel), I was assigned assistant drug and alcohol rep for the company. I had to take a class in order to be qualified. The entire class was enlisted except for me. The instructor showed a slide that showed like 40 + DUIs for the year for enlisted, 3 DUIs for RLOs and only 2 DUIs for WOs. At the end she stated “now do you see the importance of why we have this training and why you all are needed?” I had the balls (stupidity) to say “not me.” She looked at me, along with the rest of the class, with a puzzled look. She asked why a drug and alcohol program wasn’t important to me and my unit. I told her “based on your slide, you have an enlisted drinking problem. You have more warrants here than any other post in the Army but yet only two have DUIs in the last year? We’re either not abusing alcohol or we’re too smart to get caught.” That didn’t go over too well.:oops:
 
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