Looking for a Mooney Instructor

Danos

Danos

Line Up and Wait
Joined
Mar 14, 2007
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New York City
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i And I Survive
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Any and all
Are there any CFI's in the New York City area with a Mooney who wouldn't mind giving me instruction? I'll travel as far as Philly. If so P.M. me and we'll talk.
Thanks
-Danos
 
Are you asking for the instructor to provide the Mooney, or just an instructor who can teach you in your Mooney?
 
I'm looking for someone with one. Or if you're a CFI and know of a place we can rent one that will work too.
 
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The only instructor I know with a Mooney is Ed Guthrie (search the members list here) based near Lancaster PA, but I do not know if he gives training in it.

I do not know of any flight school/FBO in the Northeast or Mid-Atlantic areas that offers a Mooney for rental/training; perhaps others do.
 
Cool! I'll look him up! I found one place but it's down for the anual and won't be up for a few weeks. It gives me time to shop around and see what my options are. Thanks for the info!!
 
Ron Levy said:
The only instructor I know with a Mooney is Ed Guthrie (search the members list here) based near Lancaster PA, but I do not know if he gives training in it.

I do not know of any flight school/FBO in the Northeast or Mid-Atlantic areas that offers a Mooney for rental/training; perhaps others do.
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The North Carolina Flying Club has one they train in...
 
I'm about to start my comlex training and I basically want a change to a faster plane with more range becase I'll be taking longer trips. The only thing that fits the bill near me in my price range is a Mooney. If I do my comlex in a Cessna the school will basically make me do it all over again as a checkout. If I do it in a Mooney elsewhere it'll be a normal checkout, and if I get my complex in thiers I can rent from them whenever.
 
Danos said:
If I do my comlex in a Cessna the school will basically make me do it all over again as a checkout.
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Are you saying that if you do your complex training in the Cessna at your local school, they will not rent that plane to you without doing the training over? That seems rather strange. OTOH, they may well have some insurance-driven minimum number of retractable hours before they can let you go solo in their complex plane (a number larger than necessary to prove your complex PIC ability to 61.31(e) standards, like 10-25 compared to only 5 to complete complex endorsement training), and that isn't likely to be different with an FBO/flight school that has a Mooney.
 
Yes. I was speaking along the lines of hours needed to solo the plane rather than the actual training involved. I figured it was probably insurance.
 
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I think Ed's plane is based at Smoketown but he lives closer to Philly. I also think he gives instruction in his plane. Drop him a line and ask.
 
There is also a Mooney at the Jersey Aero Club at Lakewood Airport in NJ and they have instructors but you have to join the club and go through all that rigamaroll.
 
AdamZ said:
I think Ed's plane is based at Smoketown but he lives closer to Philly. I also think he gives instruction in his plane. Drop him a line and ask.
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FWIW, and just in case my insurance agent is reading this thread, I don't give instruction in my Mooney--the insurance policy doesn't cover it so I don't go there. I have, on a rare occassion or two been willing to let a few other pilots fly my Mooney for a short while during which I acted as legal PIC (but not while acting as a CFI)--I think there have been 7-8 or those occassions in 18 years.
 
It will be difficult to find Mooney aircraft available for training. With the exception of the limited run AT model, most Mooneys were not designed to be trainers, so they lack things that instructors like, such as brakes for the right seat.

I have a Mooney and a CFI rating, but I also wouldn't teach in my airplane. Of course, I'm 2000 miles away from you, so that won't matter much.

You may want to check with Trey at the Mooney Pilots assn:
www.mooneypilots.com

Jon
 
Ed Guthrie said:
FWIW, and just in case my insurance agent is reading this thread, I don't give instruction in my Mooney--the insurance policy doesn't cover it so I don't go there. I have, on a rare occassion or two been willing to let a few other pilots fly my Mooney for a short while during which I acted as legal PIC (but not while acting as a CFI)--I think there have been 7-8 or those occassions in 18 years.
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Oops sorry Ed! Not trying to give misinformation.:no:
 
Ron Levy said:
Are you saying that if you do your complex training in the Cessna at your local school, they will not rent that plane to you without doing the training over? That seems rather strange. OTOH, they may well have some insurance-driven minimum number of retractable hours before they can let you go solo in their complex plane (a number larger than necessary to prove your complex PIC ability to 61.31(e) standards, like 10-25 compared to only 5 to complete complex endorsement training), and that isn't likely to be different with an FBO/flight school that has a Mooney.
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I think he means he'll have to do it over again at the school with the Mooney for rent. I'm sure it'll be at least 5 hrs in type.
 
4CornerFlyer said:
It will be difficult to find Mooney aircraft available for training. With the exception of the limited run AT model, most Mooneys were not designed to be trainers, so they lack things that instructors like, such as brakes for the right seat.

I have a Mooney and a CFI rating, but I also wouldn't teach in my airplane. Of course, I'm 2000 miles away from you, so that won't matter much.

You may want to check with Trey at the Mooney Pilots assn:
www.mooneypilots.com

Jon
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You're right for primary. Brakes were an option. But I think the OP was looking for post-PP complex endorsement and renting the Mooney.
 
Danos said:
I'm about to start my comlex training and I basically want a change to a faster plane with more range becase I'll be taking longer trips. The only thing that fits the bill near me in my price range is a Mooney. If I do my comlex in a Cessna the school will basically make me do it all over again as a checkout. If I do it in a Mooney elsewhere it'll be a normal checkout, and if I get my complex in thiers I can rent from them whenever.
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As others have pointed out, a school or FBO with a Mooney is probably not going to be more relaxed with its policies... there's a great school in Mississippi, for example, that has a Mooney available for dual at a rate that tempted me to just check it out... but it's not available for solo. At all.

I am not complex-endorsed, but I believe most pilots expect to get all or most of the required hours in between the complex training and the rental checkout... if you really want to move up to complex aircraft, this is probably just the price you have to pay in most cases.
 
Keep in mind that a complex airplane in the 200HP class often is less economical in the long run than other options. A Grumman Tiger will haul about as much, about as fast, and for a lot less dollars a year total cost than an Arrow. A 182 will haul a lot more, just as fast, and for about the same dollars a year as a 172RG. If nothing else, it costs around $1000 a year extra to insure a retractable. Check rental prices and you'll probably find you can get more payload and equal performance for the same money. For these reasons, my personal opinion (and Ed G will probably disagree, as a 200HP Mooney fits his particular flying situation pretty well) is that in nearly all cases, the only practical reason for flying a 200HP retractable is to build complex time for future use.
 
Ron Levy said:
Keep in mind that a complex airplane in the 200HP class often is less economical in the long run than other options. A Grumman Tiger will haul about as much, about as fast, and for a lot less dollars a year total cost than an Arrow. A 182 will haul a lot more, just as fast, and for about the same dollars a year as a 172RG. If nothing else, it costs around $1000 a year extra to insure a retractable. Check rental prices and you'll probably find you can get more payload and equal performance for the same money. For these reasons, my personal opinion (and Ed G will probably disagree, as a 200HP Mooney fits his particular flying situation pretty well) is that in nearly all cases, the only practical reason for flying a 200HP retractable is to build complex time for future use.
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I'd agree if we weren't talking Mooneys. I note that in your examples (which I agree with) you didn't use Mooneys either. I think that if it'll carry enough weight to fit your mission, the M20J is a fine bird. It's probably the least expensive to operate 160 knot airplane there is, and the comparison to a 135-knot Arrow doesn't really make sense.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
I'd agree if we weren't talking Mooneys. I note that in your examples (which I agree with) you didn't use Mooneys either. I think that if it'll carry enough weight to fit your mission, the M20J is a fine bird. It's probably the least expensive to operate 160 knot airplane there is, and the comparison to a 135-knot Arrow doesn't really make sense.
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If you consider the M20J a "160 knot airplane," mighty fine, but I think a speed more like 145-150 KTAS is generally considered about what to expect at typical cruise power settings. Yes, you can make it go faster, but the curve of fuel consumption vs speed is very steep in that regime -- expect things like 15% more fuel burn to increase speed 5%.
 
Ron Levy said:
If you consider the M20J a "160 knot airplane," mighty fine, but I think a speed more like 145-150 KTAS is generally considered about what to expect at typical cruise power settings. Yes, you can make it go faster, but the curve of fuel consumption vs speed is very steep in that regime -- expect things like 15% more fuel burn to increase speed 5%.
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I'll know the real poop, at least for our plane, fairly shortly. The previous owner flew 7-9000 feet, full throttle, 2500, leaned to 50 ROP, and claims he got 155kts true on 11gph.

We'll soon find out if he is FOS or not.
 
Bill Jennings said:
I'll know the real poop, at least for our plane, fairly shortly. The previous owner flew 7-9000 feet, full throttle, 2500, leaned to 50 ROP, and claims he got 155kts true on 11gph.

We'll soon find out if he is FOS or not.
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Bill,

From what I've read in my research on moving to the M20J, that sounds about right. The M20J is about 20 knots faster than my Tiger on just slightly more fuel burn.
 
Bill, Do your test at 80dF ROP. That's where you'll get best power on our NA engines and is easier on the engine (cooler CHTs). 50dF (in spite of what the marketing written POH may say) is not the place to be. And BTW, if you're going for best speed there's no reason at all not to run at 2700 RPM.
Do your test this way http://reacomp.com/true_airspeed/ and let us know the results!
 
Bill Jennings said:
I'll know the real poop, at least for our plane, fairly shortly.
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To be fair to the PO the "fairly shortly" part may not be true. We here in the baking SE have temperatures WAY above standard. At 7000' the standard temp is only 1dC. Last night I flew up to Knoxville, and the OAT at 7000' was 15dC! It's going to be awhile before we're making book power :( .
 
Ron Levy said:
If you consider the M20J a "160 knot airplane," mighty fine, but I think a speed more like 145-150 KTAS is generally considered about what to expect at typical cruise power settings.
Click to expand...

Yes, I consider the M20J a 160-knot airplane... IIRC we were just a hair under that when I flew with Ed, and he thought he might be having a rigging/gear door/something problem because it was a couple knots slower than usual.

Ed? Lance?

I've also read a web site with in-depth articles about Mooneys where they tested the various models on a square course. They said 145 for the M20F and 160 for the M20J. I can't find the site now, unfortunately (Actually, now it looks like it may have been made into a book and removed from the web.)

However, Googling finds others that agree. Here's one for starters: http://www.rvproject.com/m20j/why_mooney.html
 
Ron Levy said:
If you consider the M20J a "160 knot airplane," mighty fine, but I think a speed more like 145-150 KTAS is generally considered about what to expect at typical cruise power settings. Yes, you can make it go faster, but the curve of fuel consumption vs speed is very steep in that regime -- expect things like 15% more fuel burn to increase speed 5%.
Click to expand...
A Mooney M20J is a 145-150 kt KTAS aircraft only if you typically run 55-60% power (8000', econony cruise power, 8.6-9.2 gph respectively, BTW), but if you run truly "typical" power settings a M20J is considerably faster than 145-150 kts. For example, an M20J will produce ~169 kts @ 75% power @ 10.8 gph @ 8000'.
 
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