Looking 182 Turbo RG purchase opinions

Discussion in 'Hangar Talk' started by Grismac, Dec 3, 2018.

  1. Grismac

    Grismac Filing Flight Plan

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    Hi all. I'm new to this forum, and am looking for some opinions regarding a 1979 C182 Turbo RG my friend and I are possibly interested in buying. The plane is currently owned by a small company that my buddy had flown for at times over the years. He's flown this particular plane several times since 2014, and says it's a good flying plane. However, the owner died, and passed the company to his sons who are looking to sell the plane. It's currently a hangar queen. The heirs are willing to sell to my buddy and I at a good price due to his history with the family. Anyway, the plane is always hangered, with a paint job about 10 years old that is in pristine condition. The interior is about a 7/10. Good avionics package that is not ADS-B compliant. The plane just completed it's annual. In a previous life, the plane was owned by the state of Utah up until the early 90's. Total airframe is around 7500 hours, and most of that was with Utah. only about 2000 hours added since the 90's. The engine has about 1700 hours on it. It's very likely the owners will sell us the plane for between $70k and $90k. With $70k being more likely. We looked through the logs this weekend, and didn't see anything to concern us, other than high times. So, what are the opinions out there? Good deal for a high time aircraft? Would you even consider 7000 plus hour high time? Any concerns with that? We know we'd be looking at an engine overhaul in a few years. Thanks!
     
  2. flyingcheesehead

    flyingcheesehead Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Paging @TangoWhiskey...

    $90K is certainly too high... But I guess I base that on my club's purchase of a normally aspirated R182 in 2013 with a beautiful interior, Garmin 430/Aspen PFD/S-TEC 60-2 equipped panel, and much lower time.

    I just did a basic VRef (without knowing what avionics it has, so probably off by some amount) and that came to $75K.

    I'd say $70K is an OK deal, provided you get a thorough pre-buy and there are no major issues there.

    FWIW, 7500 hours is a fairly high-time airframe. To me, "high time" starts at 8000 hours... Maybe because the only airframe I've dealt with the mx on myself that was over 8000 was kind of a maintenance hog. I'm pretty sure I've heard that number elsewhere, though, and I also have experience with some 6000+ hour airframes that were a little more reasonable. I would budget about $60/hr for maintenance on a TR182 of that vintage, though, and that's not including an engine overhaul reserve.

    Hope this helps, and good luck!
     
  3. hindsight2020

    hindsight2020 En-Route

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    Judging by the asking prices these days, nobody is willing to give you a flying example of an R182 with a G430 or better and functional AP these days for 70K. 1700 may be run out for buyers but it doesn't matter, it's a seller's market. That engine is mid time in this market. You're getting a sweetheart deal here. Tell them I'll take it off their hands for 70K, alas they won't sell it to me for 70K, which is the punch line.

    For my part, as long as there is a demonstrable revolving average of 50 or better hours per annum for the past 36 months, I'd be signing that bill of sale tomorrow. But I'm also not new at the airplane ownership gig, and I know what the inflection points on these types are.


    Yeah you should tell R182 sellers about that, judging by the median asking price on listings in 2018. 2013 is just a useless metric to use in this market. I'd know, I bought my Arrow in 2013 as well. That is not this market in the least.

    Now, 3rd quarter 2019? Perhaps we could have a 2013 in our hands again. At least that's my hope anyways. Things right now are at an impasse. The market is too forthy and inventory is low. The OP is not gonna find a better deal on the open market imo. Top dollar Cherries are seldom high on the "bang for the buck" ratio.
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2018 at 4:38 PM
  4. benyflyguy

    benyflyguy Line Up and Wait

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    Sounds like a good deal. But devil is in the details, or PreBuy as it were.
     
  5. Grismac

    Grismac Filing Flight Plan

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    All of these opinions are helpful. I appreciate them. This will be the first aircraft purchase for myself and my friend. He's a high time 737 first officer and I'm a low time private pilot and this will be my first complex high performance aircraft. We're trying to find an airplane that offers a good balance for both of us. We're definitely going to get an independent pre purchase if we decide to try to pursue it. Here's a photo of the center stack and of the aircraft. She's a beauty, but the high time does concern me a little. Doesn't phase my buddy at all.
     

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  6. hindsight2020

    hindsight2020 En-Route

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    If it wasn't a turbo, I'd find a way to outbid you right now, and I'm not joking, I'm in the market.
     
  7. GRG55

    GRG55 Final Approach

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    182 prices have seen steady upward pressure this decade.

    The turbo version is no longer made and good examples are in demand as private airplanes. The retractable might or might not be a positive - the 182 isn't exactly a speedster no matter what you do to it. ;)

    Our flying club started searching 2 months ago for a 182 to add to the fleet as a cross-country rental and IFR trainer in the mountains out here in the PNW, so I have been following this market too.

    As to value of your specific example, that will depend on a lot of factors but, as HS2020 posted, you won't find too many airworthy 182 Turbos for $70k.
     
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  8. Skyrys62

    Skyrys62 Pattern Altitude

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    Just expect to put another $50k into it if you need an engine, fix squawks, and add some avionics/adsb.
     
  9. Clip4

    Clip4 En-Route

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    If the aircraft has been well maintained, 7500 on a 182RG is no big deal. The 79 model has 40 degree flaps, which is a good thing.

    The engine is kind of a negative because it is at TBO and the engine is a turbo charged carbureted engine with a single drive Bendix dual mag. Upgrading to a fuel injected higher HP engine would be on the top of my upgrade list. The Bendix dual mag is becoming more difficult to find parts and service for. The forward mounted oil cooler is also prone to mounting cracks. Later models have the cooler mounted on the firewall.
     
  10. flyingcheesehead

    flyingcheesehead Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I really like the R182s - They're significantly faster than the straight-legged ones! Our 182N would true about 133 on a good day, while the R182 gets about 150.

    And, it gets 150 while still being good at all of the things the straight-leg version is, which is basically everything. My Mooney is faster, but I can't take it into places like Washington Island (2200' turf) that I have easily done with the R182, and the R182 hauls a much bigger load.

    Really, for a truly all-around airplane, it's very difficult to beat the R182. It's sad they're no longer made.
     
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  11. IK04

    IK04 Pre-Flight

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    Believe me, the naturally aspirated, non-turbo version is a way better airplane with regard to ownership expenses. It would be the fourth SE airplane on my favorites list...
     
  12. ktup-flyer

    ktup-flyer Pattern Altitude

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  13. Groundpounder

    Groundpounder Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I've been watching the 182 market lately myself, and I think $70k is a pretty good deal. Just get a good pre buy, and be ready to fork over some money for the engine soon.
     
  14. Grum.Man

    Grum.Man Pattern Altitude

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    With the engine time I would say 70k is a fair price. Don't buy it though if 70k is a stretch of your budget. It will likely need a sizable investment to bring it back into squawk free shape since it hasn't been flown a whole lot.
     
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  15. Jim Rosenow

    Jim Rosenow Line Up and Wait

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    Won't speak to price, as I haven't followed the market.

    Total hours depend on how it's been treated. Our R182 has about the same hours, was an FBI airplane, and with no lack of $$ (thank you all) to maintain it, is in great shape. Hopefully Utah did the same.

    Speed?.... We're 7-10 knots slower than a bud in his F33 on side-by-side trips...while feeding 50 fewer horsepower. OTOH....all 4 of us all can go comfortably in ours if we want (interior space/weight), not so the Bo.

    (Flame suit on for the Bo patrol...LOL!!!)

    Jim
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2018 at 11:09 AM
  16. Dan Thomas

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    A "good" prebuy will involve taking out the rear seat and access panels over the MLG actuators and looking for cracks in them at the rack rollers, and checking for cracks at the gear trunnions. All of those parts are obscenely expensive. You could almost buy another R182 with the money to replace all of them.

    The turbo stresses its exhaust system a lot more, too. More $ risk. I've worked on both turbo'd and NA versions.

    The bulkheads aft of the baggage compartment tend to crack, as with other 182s. Check the lower radii, especially opposite the baggage door, and look at the cutout where the wiring bundle passes along the RH side in the tail. It has a small closing panel screwed to it to maintain stiffness, and if the screws work loose the bulkhead flexes there and cracks.

    Watch the tires and brakes. It has small-diameter main tires to fit into the wells, and big double-piston calipers to hold it against the runup. In a typical landing there is still a lot of lift in the wings, meaning little weight on the tires, meaning that those little tires lock up easily and get flat-spotted. Best to touch down as close to stall as possible if you have to land short.

    Nice flying airplane, though. Best Cessna single performance for the bucks, IMHO. Amazing speed range. Vso 37 kt IIRC.
     
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  17. benyflyguy

    benyflyguy Line Up and Wait

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    It sounds like this is the guy you want to do your pre-buy, that was a nice review of the potential pitfalls
     
  18. flyingcheesehead

    flyingcheesehead Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Definitely do this!!! And be aware that the first sign of a bad gear pivot is that the brakes will get soft. If it's been sitting, just getting in and testing the brakes will tell you something - If they aren't even, there is likely trouble.

    The good news is that, while Cessna wants in the neighborhood of 20 AMU for a single pivot, there's a place that now has an STC repair process for them that costs about a quarter of what a "new" one costs. Since it's a 79, you almost certainly have the weaker aluminum pivots on this one.

    Again, excellent advice here. I did my commercial in an R182 at a time when I was flying the hell out of a straight-leg 182, and the difference in braking was VERY noticeable. It's very easy to skid on landing in the retract 182s, you really don't even have to push hard on the brakes to do so.

    The tires are a bit of a weird size, too - They're the same size as the mains on a DA40, and we learned from our experiences with that that it was a good idea to carry an extra tire and tube in the plane as well as keep some extras at the home drome, because if you do get a flat tire, it's much easier to find an A&P than it is to find someone with this tire in stock, and it may cost you an extra day or two to obtain the right tire and tube as opposed to being able to just throw a new one on there. We also found that we paid less than half ordering from Desser up front compared to buying from the other places that did stock one.
     
  19. hindsight2020

    hindsight2020 En-Route

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    I guess. To me the whole thing read as: "so other than the shooting, how was the play Mrs. Lincoln?". Not exactly a compliment to the airplane in my book.
     
  20. Dan Thomas

    Dan Thomas En-Route

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    Find an airplane model that doesn't have weaknesses. There aren't any.
     
  21. Grismac

    Grismac Filing Flight Plan

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    Looks like I came to the right place for opinions! This is all great info and is definitely going to help us with our decision.
     
  22. Let'sgoflying!

    Let'sgoflying! Touchdown! Greaser!

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    paging @Troywhistman (what is his screen name?)
    maybe he has something to add?
     
  23. hindsight2020

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    indeed, but it's a matter of degrees, so let's not go down that false equivalence route. That was my only point, which admittedly was an implied point. Ergo, not all retracts have cracking 12K installed a pop gear components, nor equivalently cost-punitive subsystems in lieu of.

    As to the point about captive audience? 100% agreed. That is probably the overarching point in this discussion.
     
  24. GRG55

    GRG55 Final Approach

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    I would surmise that is, in part, due to the retro-fit nature of the retract gear on what was intended as a fixed gear airframe when first designed. It works, but maybe not as robustly as one might prefer.

    Every engineering design is a compromise. Most alterations after the fact tend to add something and take away something else.
     
  25. Checkout_my_Six

    Checkout_my_Six Final Approach

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    Speaking of which....make sure your mechanic does a thorough inspection for cracks in the nose gear wheel well structure. My hangar neighbor put his A&P’s kid thru college replacing that. I’m thinking that job cost north of $10,000
     
  26. flyingcheesehead

    flyingcheesehead Touchdown! Greaser!

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    See the second post in the thread. ;) (@TangoWhiskey)

    Well, you can look at some of the really simple, robust gear systems like the Arrow or Mooney and say "That's a much better airplane" but only if you're looking at the gear system. The R182's gear system can be an expensive PITA, but it's got a big, comfy cabin and can haul just about anything you can fit in the door while landing at shorter fields.

    Really, the trick here is to get one of the earliest ones, where the pivots were made of steel instead of aluminum, as those are far more reliable. But in any case, the R182 is a bird whose wide variety of capabilities is darn near impossible to match.
     
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