Longing for 2 wings

flyersfan31

Touchdown! Greaser!
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Freiburgfan31
As some of you know, I'm always looking at next plane alternatives. After I bought my first plane, i was able to stay away from airplane porn for more than 2 months. After I bought my current plane, I was back looking at the porn within 2 weeks. Lately I've been thinking a lot about Barons. I know, I have a problem. I figure with a Baron, I'd need a Sunday-go-to-church plane (just hang with me here, I'd never get that past wifey/chief financial officer, but a guy's gotta dream)...

So, I'm reading Richard Bach's aviation trilogy, second book titled "Biplane" and I am absolutely hooked. The answer to every problem in life is found in a biplane, as far as I can tell. I want one. A Stearman, well, that would pretty much be it. Painted Blue/Yellow preferably, but Yellow Peril Yellow would suffice. A Waco (old one, not one of those new ones) would be nice. Heck, i don't know, anything with two wings, except maybe a Pitts from what i can tell.

Any folks with bipe experience want to weigh in? Share photos, experiences? I would like to have some vicarious biplane time in the logbook.
 
The answer to every problem in life is found in a biplane, as far as I can tell. I want one. A Stearman, well, that would pretty much be it. Painted Blue/Yellow preferably, but Yellow Peril Yellow would suffice. A Waco (old one, not one of those new ones) would be nice. Heck, i don't know, anything with two wings, except maybe a Pitts from what i can tell.

Any folks with bipe experience want to weigh in? Share photos, experiences? I would like to have some vicarious biplane time in the logbook.

I don't know if I'd really want a Stearman. Yeah, they're cool, but with an open cockpit it's going to be sitting for much of the year (until you retire and move to FL). I really enjoyed flying it, but I think even if I did have a twin go-places airplane, I'd want something else for the single fun plane. Like maybe a Husky - You flown one of those yet? I know, it's only one wing, but... It's fun.

After flying a Stearman, my hair hurt - Part of it wasn't confined beneath the helmet. Don't get me wrong, it was very cool, but it wasn't one of those "This is so cool I'd want to do it every day" type of things. And since it's open cockpit you have one PTT for the intercom and another for the radios.

As far as the flight characteristics, it was very... Graceful. Nothing happens fast in a Stearman. We went upside down a few times (Loops, barrel rolls, positive G stuff). It was very well-mannered for the most part.

So, I'd love to fly one again, but I sure wouldn't buy one. Oh well. :dunno:
 
flyersfan31 said:
The answer to every problem in life is found in a biplane, as far as I can tell. I want one. A Stearman, well, that would pretty much be it. Painted Blue/Yellow preferably, but Yellow Peril Yellow would suffice. A Waco (old one, not one of those new ones) would be nice. Heck, i don't know, anything with two wings, except maybe a Pitts from what i can tell.
I don't know if I'd really want a Stearman. Yeah, they're cool, but with an open cockpit it's going to be sitting for much of the year (until you retire and move to FL). I really enjoyed flying it, but I think even if I did have a twin go-places airplane, I'd want something else for the single fun plane. Like maybe a Husky - You flown one of those yet? I know, it's only one wing, but... It's fun.

After flying a Stearman, my hair hurt - Part of it wasn't confined beneath the helmet. Don't get me wrong, it was very cool, but it wasn't one of those "This is so cool I'd want to do it every day" type of things. And since it's open cockpit you have one PTT for the intercom and another for the radios.

As far as the flight characteristics, it was very... Graceful. Nothing happens fast in a Stearman. We went upside down a few times (Loops, barrel rolls, positive G stuff). It was very well-mannered for the most part.
I have a few minutes in a Stearman. I liked the way it flew, but it is definitely "graceful."

I was surprised at how physically uncomfortable the experience was. There was a huge draft in the forward pit. I took a photo over my shoulder of my buddy flying the thing, and in the picture, he looks pretty miserable. He eventually sold it for a Stinson 108. If you flew without a helmet, I bet your hair hurt. I always wear a helmet, except for short flights on really hot days.

I've never owned a biplane, or even acted as PIC of one, but I have flown open-cockpit almost exclusively for the past 20 years (except for an 18 months dalliance with my own Stinson about 12 years ago).

You don't have to live in Florida or any of the other southern states for year-round open-cockpit flying, but it really does depend on your own tolerance, your preparation, and how the cockpit is designed. I fly year-round in the Seattle area, including when the temperature goes below freezing. Here's a shot of my plane on one such trip a few years back...notice the icicles hanging off the Agwagon.

ice4.gif

When it gets THIS cold, it does take a bit of preparation I have a sliding "dress code" depending on temperature, and when it gets below freezing I wear thermal undies, a ski mask, heavy socks, and my B-3 flying jacket. On the flight above, I hadn't gotten the B-3 yet and was wearing an A-2 with a sweatshirt...warn enough, but a bit harder to move around in.

I'm an ol' North Dakota boy, who used to walk his paper route on January mornings in -40 weather then go ride snowmobiles for a couple of hours, so I perhaps tolerate it a bit better than some. I will admit, when it gets below freezing, that my face gets a bit stiff and it's tougher to talk on the radio.

The plane I fly (Bowers Fly Baby homebuilt) has nice, snug, fairly draft-free cockpit. Mine has a heater, which does keep my left big toe warm.

Unfortunately, I think the draft problem is pretty common in two-seat open cockpit airplanes, since the blast can go IN one cockpit and come out the other. I've been told that the downdraft from the upper wing on biplanes is also a source of discomfort in some designs.

The Fly Baby is really unusual in that it can be built as a monoplane, a biplane, or even a "Convertible"...change from the monoplane configuration to biplane in an hour (if you own both sets of wings, of course). A rather cool-looking Fly Baby biplane with a WWI paint job just changed hands for about $13,000.

http://www.bowersflybaby.com/pix/gutow_bipe1.jpg

If you've really got a biplane jones, keep your eyes open for some of the homebuilt biplanes...Skybolts, Stardusters, Baby Great Lakes, etc. Antiques like the Stearman and Wacos are MUCH more expensive to operate. I'm glad I'm feeding a 85 HP Continental instead of a 220 HP radial, and the insurance on my $10,000 Fly Baby is a lot cheaper than a $100,000 Waco.

Ron Wanttaja
 
How about a Pitts??? I would definitely go for an enclosed cockpit. Stearman, pretty cool, but doesn't interest me. Read Stephen Coonts' novel "Cannibal Queen" to get a sense of what they are like.
 
The Cannibal Queen actually lives just across the river in Jersey now. It was at the Wings airshow last year giving rides. The owner bought from Coonts. Yeah, read the book, sounded fun to me.

A boy can dream, can't he......:)
 
The Cannibal Queen actually lives just across the river in Jersey now. It was at the Wings airshow last year giving rides. The owner bought from Coonts. Yeah, read the book, sounded fun to me.

A boy can dream, can't he......:)

I dunno... it seems authors like Bach (especially Bach) have a knack for painting all with glorious nostalgia...

(Keep in mind one definition of nostalgia is: "Old people's ability to remember only the good, and forget the bad..")

When I start waxing nostalgic about "the good old Army days" on a tank in the field, I spend a half day out in the woods on a 90+ humid day getting eaten by deer and horse flies while trying to pull several hundred pounds of tread out of 4 feet of mud -- anyway, the "memories" quickly get re-calibrated.
 
I went for about an hour ride in on of the "new" Wacos. I was able to fly it for about half that time. I didn't really notice that much wind in the front cockpit and the heater was effective. From the pilot's comments, I think it was less effective in the back seat. This was December in San Francisco Bay Area and I'm guessing the temperature was about 50 and misty. As with people's comments about the Stearman, nothing seemed to happen very fast in the Waco.

I also have about 5 hours in a Pitts, and other than also being a biplane I don't think the two are similar at all. You think about moving one of the controls in a Pitts and it is responding.
 
How about a Pitts???
A Pitts is very fun to fly, but it is a highly specialized airplane. Like anything that is highly specialized, if you try to use it for other than its intended purpose you are likely to be disappointed -- or worse.
 
So, I'm reading Richard Bach's aviation trilogy, second book titled "Biplane" and I am absolutely hooked. The answer to every problem in life is found in a biplane, as far as I can tell. I want one. A Stearman, well, that would pretty much be it. Painted Blue/Yellow preferably, but Yellow Peril Yellow would suffice. A Waco (old one, not one of those new ones) would be nice. Heck, i don't know, anything with two wings, except maybe a Pitts from what i can tell.

Any folks with bipe experience want to weigh in? Share photos, experiences? I would like to have some vicarious biplane time in the logbook.[/quote]

That book is hard to put down. I will try to limit this to bipes that I have a bit of time in. In college back in the 80s I worked for a guy who became a dealer for Air Repair which took old surplus Stearman airframes and zero timed them to like new condition. I ferried a couple around for new owners so most all of my time is straight and level . 80-90 MPH as I recall and about 12 GPH. I would liken it to riding an old Harley. You wont get there fast, but you will make some noise and feel the wind in your hair. I dont know where you live, but most of my open cockpit stuff was out in So Cal and you could fly one of those year around out there . I currenty live in the Rockies and in my opinion an open cockpit plane is only comfortable about 4 months out of the year. Depends on your dedication I guess.
Ron W made an exellent point about the homebuilts. You cant go wrong with the Starduster 2, Acroduster, or IMHO the best of the bunch as far as pure flying qualities is the Marquart Charger. If you look at any of these try to find one with the 0-360 and not the 6 cylinder engines. They just tend to do better all around with the lighter engines. 125 to 135 MPH is what I remember with the Starduster and Marquart. The Acroduster is slightly smaller and slightly faster. Hope this helps.
FB
 
Consider the Hatz or Hatz Classic. The airframe is designed to resemble a Waco, but the aircraft is about 3/4 the size of a Waco, costs a fraction as much, and most of 'em have easily supportable 4 cylinder Lycomings or Continentals.

Allegedly, they fly well too.
 
If you have a problem with drafts or wind hitting your head, an open cockpit biplane isn't for you. I have about 20 hours in Stearmans, 50 in a Starduster Too (which I currently own) and a half a dozen in a Skybolt. I even have a couple in a Tiger Moth.

I find all are really fun for about 30 minutes to an hour. Buffeting from top wing into the back seat is pretty common. Typically, a reduced front windshield will relieve much buffeting in the back seat.....but it is open cockpit, you won't eliminate it all. A PT-19 and 23 are low wing open cockpits and also experience cockpit turbulence and buffeting.:hairraise:

If you need a biplane, and everyone should own one at some point, I'm about to put mine on the market. I want to finish the restoration on my Cub and need space. Four planes in a two plane hangar is just too crowded. The Cub has been in the family since 1969. I've flown my Swift off and on since 1987. The 'duster is a newcomer from 2004. It has to go!!!

JimR
 
I dunno... it seems authors like Bach (especially Bach) have a knack for painting all with glorious nostalgia...

(Keep in mind one definition of nostalgia is: "Old people's ability to remember only the good, and forget the bad..")

When I start waxing nostalgic about "the good old Army days" on a tank in the field, I spend a half day out in the woods on a 90+ humid day getting eaten by deer and horse flies while trying to pull several hundred pounds of tread out of 4 feet of mud -- anyway, the "memories" quickly get re-calibrated.

Well, being stuck in a tank and following orders is one thing. :eek: Flying in a biplane at your whim is another! I'm sure the old airmail pilots would agree with you, but folks like Bach and Coonts, who were doing it for fun have a different perspective.

There's just a certain appeal, to me at least, of shedding the modern world, flying needle/ball/airspeed at 1000ft in the summer twilight, for a few short hours. Less appealing in February here in PA, I am sure.
 
Well, being stuck in a tank and following orders is one thing. :eek: Flying in a biplane at your whim is another! I'm sure the old airmail pilots would agree with you, but folks like Bach and Coonts, who were doing it for fun have a different perspective.

There's just a certain appeal, to me at least, of shedding the modern world, flying needle/ball/airspeed at 1000ft in the summer twilight, for a few short hours. Less appealing in February here in PA, I am sure.

Well, whether the orders come from Battalion or from the line of Thunderstorms up ahead, there are constraints in all we do...

I think the best case would be to have one airplane to go far and fast, and one to go low and slow!
 
Well, whether the orders come from Battalion or from the line of Thunderstorms up ahead, there are constraints in all we do...

I think the best case would be to have one airplane to go far and fast, and one to go low and slow!

Don't forget the orders from the missus!!!!

Your suggestion is best. At least 2 planes.:)
 
Well, being stuck in a tank and following orders is one thing. :eek: Flying in a biplane at your whim is another! I'm sure the old airmail pilots would agree with you, but folks like Bach and Coonts, who were doing it for fun have a different perspective.

There's just a certain appeal, to me at least, of shedding the modern world, flying needle/ball/airspeed at 1000ft in the summer twilight, for a few short hours. Less appealing in February here in PA, I am sure.

Andrew,

Maybe you could get a biplane that is convertible between open cockpit/enclosed canopy? I think you can do such things with a Pitts, but maybe there's a way to do it with others as well.

BTW, don't even think about buying a Stearman until you have a hangar to put it in. Keeping a Stearman outside in the elements you have in Philly is a crime!
 
As some of you know, I'm always looking at next plane alternatives. After I bought my first plane, i was able to stay away from airplane porn for more than 2 months. After I bought my current plane, I was back looking at the porn within 2 weeks. Lately I've been thinking a lot about Barons. I know, I have a problem. I figure with a Baron, I'd need a Sunday-go-to-church plane (just hang with me here, I'd never get that past wifey/chief financial officer, but a guy's gotta dream)...

So, I'm reading Richard Bach's aviation trilogy, second book titled "Biplane" and I am absolutely hooked. The answer to every problem in life is found in a biplane, as far as I can tell. I want one. A Stearman, well, that would pretty much be it. Painted Blue/Yellow preferably, but Yellow Peril Yellow would suffice. A Waco (old one, not one of those new ones) would be nice. Heck, i don't know, anything with two wings, except maybe a Pitts from what i can tell.

Any folks with bipe experience want to weigh in? Share photos, experiences? I would like to have some vicarious biplane time in the logbook.

Having owned and a worked a biplane, let me toss this to you, you know how a high wing blocks your vision up and when you turn, and a low wing blocks your vision down and when you turn? Consider having a plane that blocks your vision continuously. Then there is the issue of drag with flying wires and struts.... There are multiple reasons that aviation evolved away from biplanes, they are all good reasons. The one thing I liked about the Ag Cat was that when you go into a rice paddy and go over on your back, the upper wing holds the cockpit out of the water so you don't drown. If it wasn't for the deal I got on it and the fact that I needed it for working rice, I would have bought a gear nose Thrush. You want a fun kick around, T-18, MM-II, RV-4....
 
Well, there were a few at OLM to drool over today. :yes: Gathering of Warbirds. I think I wend a little overboard taking pictures today. Sure glad it was digital and not 35mm. Only took 603. :D
 

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The National Stearman Fly In is Sept 1-7 Galesburg IL www.stearmanflyin.com


The National Waco Fly In is June 26-29 6G4 Wynkoop Airport Mt Vernon, OH
www.nationalwacoclub.com

1H0 Creve Coeur Airport St. Louis Missouri probably has the largest collection of Wacos at their mueseum and on the field. Also do a Waco fly in.

Been to both, great groups and nostalgic aircraft.

Gary Gembala
 
Andrew,

One of the old chief pilots at AQW had a beautiful Stearman that was a sight to see, and hear fly, just an amazing plane. The downside was, he only flew it April -> October, and shuttered her the rest of the year.

Another guy had a great Pitts, but he only flew it to go out and "abuse his balance mechanism"

I think the Staggerwing would be best. Or, an old rag-wing radial, like the Fairchild or a 195.

And why stop at a Baron? Why not shoot the moon and get a Cheyenne? With the T tail, the big turbines, I think half of PoA would have a man-crush on you.

Cheers,

-Andrew
 
A Pitts is very fun to fly, but it is a highly specialized airplane. Like anything that is highly specialized, if you try to use it for other than its intended purpose you are likely to be disappointed -- or worse.

What ever do you mean? Like oh I dunno flying a pitts from Florida to Northern Arkansas?:dunno:
 
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