Long XCountry- Shot Down

Don't worry, just fly it. My CFI and I were adding up the hours in my log in preparation for my PP check ride many years ago and I was a few tenths of an hour short in the solo XC category. Hopped in the trusty 150, made a quick (well, as quick as you can go in a 150) run from OLM to KLS and back. Traffic was passing me as I followed I-5. I think that was the flight where the tower at OLM asked me for a short final while I was on downwind, so I just chopped the power and did a nice 180 to the runway. You never know what new experience you'll get on a XC, so go forth and have fun.
 
As usual, I shot from the hip with my comment - whereas Bruce provided the real reason . . .

ThE OP is in shouting distance of NYC airspace - no CFI in his right mind wants a confused student head SW instead of SE from where he is launching from. . . that oops sailed a long time ago.
 
Owad1971 said:
:mad2::mad2:
So after spending the previous night and early morning planning the super most awesome Long Xcountry- I get to the school and my instructor will not sign me off for the "long one"- wants me to do another "short one" then a "long one"- whats the point? other than adding $$$ to my training- The only difference between the legs was a 60 mile lazy flight along a river and back. DO instructors always insist on you exceeding the requirements needlessly? I seriously rather spend the extra Hobbs on performance TO & Landings, not solo xcountries where I have proven (during two previous extra DUAL Xcountries) that I can aviate, navigate and communicate.....


Someone please talk me off the ledge....I am KINDA P'O ED!:mad::mad::mad:
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The requirement is at the instructor sign you off, not the minimum standards.

Worry about impressing the instructor instead of what the bare minimums of the regulations are.

Worst result: You have to fly more. Oh no! ;)
 
MAKG1 said:
And eman1200 has a very good point. A 3+ hour cross-country is quite a lot longer than 150 miles.
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My long XC was 158 miles and exactly 3.0 on the Hobbs. Unless you mean total time, with stops etc....

I fully agree with the rest of your post though. Cross country flights are an entirely different deal than a trip out to the practice area. One side of the story being shared here, and the CFI could very well have a good reason for what he/she is doing.

As was alluded to, I don't see why the bitching. Either way you're flying. Enjoy it and when you get there, you get there.
 
Plan your long cross-country to get some fun out of it, too! For the cross-country on my IR we flew to the Bahamas for lunch :D
 
Owad, I think you and I may be taking lessons at the same place. Please check your Private Msg and hit me offline if you wanna compare notes.
 
Not sure what the issue is with 5.0 on the hobbs for the long Xcountry . . Its not that far unless you are stuck in traffic on the freeway . . . .

You fly to Point A - take a photo on your cell phone with todays newspaper in front of the FBO - taxi to the next place - and do it again then fly back. . . and do it the third time there -

Pretty simple.
 
Snapping a pic of the plane on the ramp was good enough for my CFI.
 
Your instructors actually required proof that you went where you said you were going on your solo cross country? Is that typical? I don't know if my CFI was a slacker or just trusted me. :D
 
My CFI never required proof. I took a bunch of pictures on my phone though of a forest fire I was near (Crown King fire, I had to go around a TFR) and I called when I got to Prescott. My long solo XC was the same as all the others at the school. We left Chandler, did the class B transition north to Prescott and stopped in Prescott for a phone call and some water. Then from Prescott we went to an airport we had never been before, Wickenberg for either a touch & go or a full stop taxiback (I did the taxiback) then we were to go around the class B and be with Luke AFB approach through their airspace. Not an easy XC as a new private pilot, much less a student. But I learned a lot on that XC, and that's what they're designed for. My CFI knew I was capable... but does your CFI think you're capable of a long, elaborate 5 hour XC?

I think you and your CFI have a disconnect. He or she should be slightly involved in the planning, not doing the planning but giving you a list of places you could go. Probably not. Like Bruce said, you're flying on your CFI's ticket, not really yours. He gets to make the calls for now.
 
Owad1971 said:
<snip>.... DO instructors always insist on you exceeding the requirements needlessly?
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What you may think of as "needless" your instructor may think of as needed.

The FAR's prescribe the FAA's minimums that are needed to obtain a certificate. Your minimums may be higher...and that minimum will be set by your CFI.

Anytime I see someone post that "$$$$$$" are a problem and that they think that their CFI is just milking them for money and time, they are usually looking for shortcuts in their training.

Me no like that :no:.

As an instructor, I am very much aware of how much it costs to learn to fly and will do whatever I can to keep the costs reasonable for the student...but I will never let saving "$$$$" get in the way of safety.

JMHO,

Mike
 
noobJohn said:
Your instructors actually required proof that you went where you said you were going on your solo cross country? Is that typical? I don't know if my CFI was a slacker or just trusted me. :D
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I should clarify. My CFI didn't require it, he trusted me. But I voluntarily provided proof.

Besides, absent pics, I had a dated fuel receipt from the first stop.

Owad. You are flying on the instructor's ticket. We had a long XC here that went NE out of Peoria. After 30 minutes he didn't see what he though he should be seeing.

SO he decided to land. Just so happened it was 4R at ORD.
His CFI took a 44709 ride. It's been 20 years. Ewey, his CFI, is still mad about it.
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I missed this. HO-LEE-CHIT:eek:

I hate to admit it but I'd love to listen to the story and ATC on that one....!!!!
 
MikeELP said:
What you may think of as "needless" your instructor may think of as needed.

The FAR's prescribe the FAA's minimums that are needed to obtain a certificate. Your minimums may be higher...and that minimum will be set by your CFI.

Anytime I see someone post that "$$$$$$" are a problem and that they think that their CFI is just milking them for money and time, they are usually looking for shortcuts in their training.

Me no like that :no:.

As an instructor, I am very much aware of how much it costs to learn to fly and will do whatever I can to keep the costs reasonable for the student...but I will never let saving "$$$$" get in the way of safety.

JMHO,

Mike
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I hear you on this, and I agree with the safety part first. I am in no way a perfect pilot, but it was clear to me (and my guest passengers for our multiple dual xcountries) that my area of weakness was not here. I was just trying to refocus my training on an area where I felt I needed the work.

An earlier commenter stated the "incompatability" of flight training and a limited (or any) budget....Oh well.
 
I did two dual (one at night) and two solo x-c trips before taking on my long.

My long also had to be a triangular course, flown direct without using the GPS. Very valuable pilotage skills honed there
 
Leslie is the only one I'm aware of that did a single cross country of 5+ hours, and that was because she was coming up on her appointment with the DPE and weather kept getting in the way of the flight. It was a long, boring flight that started under O'Hare's Class B veil. Our instructor trusted us to do the flight without landing on 4R and without needing to provide proof that we landed at the airports we said we landed at. But I agree, it's your instructor's ticket on the line, and they're probably out to keep you (and them) safe, not to milk you.
 
Owad1971 said:
:mad2::mad2:
So after spending the previous night and early morning planning the super most awesome Long Xcountry- I get to the school and my instructor will not sign me off for the "long one"- wants me to do another "short one" then a "long one"- whats the point? other than adding $$$ to my training- The only difference between the legs was a 60 mile lazy flight along a river and back. DO instructors always insist on you exceeding the requirements needlessly? I seriously rather spend the extra Hobbs on performance TO & Landings, not solo xcountries where I have proven (during two previous extra DUAL Xcountries) that I can aviate, navigate and communicate.....


Someone please talk me off the ledge....I am KINDA P'O ED!:mad::mad::mad:
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Nope, I was required the requirements and started my PP check ride with 40.0hrs. I did also optionally get endorsed for Complex and High Performance in that time doing cross countries in a 172 RG, Arrow II, and a 182. However, I did at least 3 solo cross countries in that time. There is no reason not to do cross countries, they are where you learn the details and how all these things you are learning fit together, and you also learn the finesse of trim.
 
Owad1971 said:
Heck no- Not on the Hobb$$ meter it isn't...this I know.:hairraise:

So Much For Maximizing my Bang for my Buck...I was trying to save a few $$ in this area (with one less flight) and put it toward an area where I could use more targeted work (like practice in advance of checkride)...Unfortunately for me there are limits to my flying budget... I need one of those winning lottery tickets:yes::yes::yes:
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Let me clue you in on something, cross country work is the best prep for a check ride there is as well as the best prep for what comes after. BTW, fly one of those legs slow flight with the stall horn blaring. If you're not comfortable with that thought, get more practice at it with your instructor.
 
noobJohn said:
Your instructors actually required proof that you went where you said you were going on your solo cross country? Is that typical? I don't know if my CFI was a slacker or just trusted me. :D
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We had to get the FBO or ramp rat to sign our log.
 
Henning said:
...BTW, fly one of those legs slow flight with the stall horn blaring. If you're not comfortable with that thought, get more practice at it with your instructor....
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I like this Idea...I am on it! And I will be sure to be mindful of cooling the engine periodically:yes:
 
I think I flew at least 8 cross country flights as a student. I flew well over what I needed to and flew long cross countries (300nm +) because I wanted to. I bought my plane the day before I started training and flew it as a student every chance I got. I flew because I love to fly and not just to build hours. My CFI trusted me and signed off on all of these flights after reviewing my plan and of course weather conditions. He finally told me to quit goofing off in this eternal student mode and schedule my check ride so that he didn't have to endorse my every flight. I guess I'm telling you (the OP) to relax, have fun, fly for the experience and adventure and don't worry so much about hours. It will all come together and your CFI will get you there if you just follow his lead.
 
Back when I got mine, we planned the long XC to places with FSS. I had the FSS guy sign my book. There's no regulatory reason for it, just one of those common practices.

My first XC had a DR leg from CYS to FNM (might have been STK). The CYS VOR was out and there aren't a whole lot of landmarks between them. My CFI was happy with the idea I'd DR it and eventually I'd come to the I-70/US-6/RR perpendicular to my route of flight and from there I ought to be able to find my way to a suitable airport somewhere (even if it wasn't the destination).

Turned out I nailed it pretty spot on.
 
My first solo XC I had the FBO (it's not what you think of as an FBO... just the lady that runs the whole airport) sign my logbook. For the long XC I had fuel receipts and a picture of the 172 parked in the snow on a day when it didn't get above 15°F.
 
flyingron said:
Back when I got mine, we planned the long XC to places with FSS. I had the FSS guy sign my book. There's no regulatory reason for it, just one of those common practices.

My first XC had a DR leg from CYS to FNM (might have been STK). The CYS VOR was out and there aren't a whole lot of landmarks between them. My CFI was happy with the idea I'd DR it and eventually I'd come to the I-70/US-6/RR perpendicular to my route of flight and from there I ought to be able to find my way to a suitable airport somewhere (even if it wasn't the destination).

Turned out I nailed it pretty spot on.
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Anywhere near CYS you just look to see which direction small animals, dirt, and everything that isn't nailed down is blowing across the prairie... that's East. :) :) :)

I was truly shocked one night when I went to CYS to do night landings and the wind favored 09. I had never landed 09 in a decade of going to CYS. :) :) :)
 
Why complain about a cross country!? That's what people do who fly airplanes. Cross country's build confidence. Several people are ragging on CFIs about all kinds of things . If money is a big problem forget it and buy a prius. Flying is not cheap. get used to it.
 
Owad1971 said:
:mad2::mad2:
So after spending the previous night and early morning planning the super most awesome Long Xcountry- I get to the school and my instructor will not sign me off for the "long one"- wants me to do another "short one" then a "long one"- whats the point? other than adding $$$ to my training- The only difference between the legs was a 60 mile lazy flight along a river and back. DO instructors always insist on you exceeding the requirements needlessly? I seriously rather spend the extra Hobbs on performance TO & Landings, not solo xcountries where I have proven (during two previous extra DUAL Xcountries) that I can aviate, navigate and communicate.....


Someone please talk me off the ledge....I am KINDA P'O ED!:mad::mad::mad:
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It's all time in the air. That's why I learned to fly. I have over 3000 hours that weren't "required".
 
bbchien said:
You can ***** and moan all you want. If you think you are getting ripped off, get to someone else. But it sure looks to me like a bit of overconfidence. the CFI's sign. says he has reason to think you will not get in trouble, but you have to earn that, not declare it.

Good things come in order, and when they are ready. We have all been there.
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This.
 
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