Long x/c question

i would think it best that you prove you can get to and from a single place before you go onto the long XC where you have to land at two otehr places. But off the top of my head I don't *think* you have to do it in that order. But I am in a hotel room and do not have my FARs with me to look it up.
 
You can do the long one first if your CFI is OK with signing you off. However, I have to warn you that on first solo XC, most of my students get a smidge overloaded and are glad they did the short one first. They know al the stuff- but getting the cockpit organized around the tasks is a taller task than they imagined.
 
HPNFlyGirl said:
Do you have to do your 50 mile solo x/c before your long solo x/c?
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While there's no rule that says you have to (your first solo could even be your long X/C depending on your training history) it is the logical way to proceede. It would be an exceptional circumstance to get the intructor to sign you off for the long before the short, but if you had shown yourself competent and had a concurrent need that could be fulfilled (dad sick in the hospital, need to go there...) I'd consider signing you off. After all, that's part of why we do this thing.
 
I'm with Henning and Bruce -- I like to make the first solo XC a short route that was already flown dual, followed by a short "new" route, followed by the long XC. And if that goes over 5 hours, so be it. I'm a lot more interested in the student's proficiency and confidence going into the practical test than I am in minimum flight times. And, as you may guess, I think the reduction from 10 to 5 in the solo XC requirement (and 20 to 10 in total solo) was short-sighted and foolish.
 
Ron Levy said:
And, as you may guess, I think the reduction from 10 to 5 in the solo XC requirement (and 20 to 10 in total solo) was short-sighted and foolish.
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Did the FAA ever give a reasoning for the change? It does seem a bit odd to reduce requirements to get a pilots license.
 
I tend to agree that it's better to progress through xc lengths. That said, Leslie did ALL her solo XC in ONE FLIGHT. In fact, she was only 10nm away for having it qualify as her COMMERCIAL solo cross-country! That's what happens when you keep getting weathered out on your cross country and have your checkride already scheduled. She did Chicago (1C5) - Moline - Litchfield, IL - Carbondale - 1C5.
 
Hi HPNFlyGirl!

What's your instructor think? One's like another, just a little longer. My solo XCs seemed to be similar in length. Since you'll be on your own (probably won't have any weight limitations), don't be shy about buying gas.
 
Well I did do my solo long x/c today. I am exhausted now. Went pretty well and I didnt get too lost. Hah hah hah. More to come later.
 
Wait a sec - if you do your long cross country first, wouldn't that then also count as your short cross country?
 
SkyHog said:
Wait a sec - if you do your long cross country first, wouldn't that then also count as your short cross country?
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and...?

There noting in the regs that says that a student pilot has to do more than one cross country. But since there's a time requirement as well as a distance one, a CFI/student team can end up wanting to do just one solo cross country but the student ends up doing the flight in a way that she has to do another one to meet the time requirement. I've seen students do two cross countries and come up short on time, having to do another 101 NM round robin just to log an extra 0.4.
Did the FAA ever give a reasoning for the change? It does seem a bit odd to reduce requirements to get a pilots license.
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It was part of the 1997 revision. The private requirements were reduced and commercial requirements increased. I'm not completely sure, but as I recall, the impetus was on the commercial side - to conform the FAA commercial with ICAO requirements.
 
HPNFlyGirl said:
Well I did do my solo long x/c today. I am exhausted now. Went pretty well and I didnt get too lost. Hah hah hah. More to come later.
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Soooo, where did ya go?:dunno:
 
NC Pilot said:
Soooo, where did ya go?:dunno:
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JNX-FAY-ILM-ISO-JNX I was kinda hoping you & Agatha were around yesterday afternoon so I could tell you guys about it. Mr. Massey and Bill & anohter Bill and Frank were all hangin out so I told them & they were in stitches. They told me...you know thouse controllers are still laughing at you. :yes: I do know, and I am laughing at them for putting up with me. :rofl:
 
All among my favorites.. especially ILM. :) WTG Brook !
 
HPNFlyGirl said:
JNX-FAY-ILM-ISO-JNX I was kinda hoping you & Agatha were around yesterday afternoon so I could tell you guys about it. Mr. Massey and Bill & anohter Bill and Frank were all hangin out so I told them & they were in stitches. They told me...you know thouse controllers are still laughing at you. :yes: I do know, and I am laughing at them for putting up with me. :rofl:
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Sounds good Brook. Way to go. At least every place you went (except JNX) had a VOR nearby. :yes:

We were shooting a match in Oxford yesterday, otherwise we might have been at the airport...
 
NC Pilot said:
We were shooting a match...
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Thread hijack ... Bullseye, Practical, Cowboy Action? .... details! Even if it means another thread!
 
gkainz said:
Thread hijack ... Bullseye, Practical, Cowboy Action? .... details! Even if it means another thread!
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IDPA CDP marksman. Won my division.
 
Ok- so why were the controllers laughing? Inquiring minds want to know!
 
Way to go, Brook! I hope to catch up to you soon! Whoohoo!! You go, girl.
 
midlifeflyer said:
and...?

There noting in the regs that says that a student pilot has to do more than one cross country.
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That was my question. Thanks for the answer.
 
HPNFlyGirl said:
JNX-FAY-ILM-ISO-JNX I was kinda hoping you & Agatha were around yesterday afternoon so I could tell you guys about it. Mr. Massey and Bill & anohter Bill and Frank were all hangin out so I told them & they were in stitches. They told me...you know thouse controllers are still laughing at you. :yes: I do know, and I am laughing at them for putting up with me. :rofl:
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You really do need to write up the experience! I'd love to hear about it.
 
SkyHog said:
Did the FAA ever give a reasoning for the change? It does seem a bit odd to reduce requirements to get a pilots license.
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The FAA was trying to reduce the average total time to license, which was up over 60 hours, with dual time constituting the bulk -- what with all the extra folks stuff folks have to learn compared to 40 years ago, they just can't seem to do it in anything close to 20 hours dual these days. By cutting the solo requirement from 20 to 10, and solo XC from 10 to 5, they were able to cut 10 hours off the average total time to PPL and still not see anyone having to fly out extra hours to get to the minimum total of 40.
 
Ron Levy said:
The FAA was trying to reduce the average total time to license, which was up over 60 hours, with dual time constituting the bulk -- what with all the extra folks stuff folks have to learn compared to 40 years ago, they just can't seem to do it in anything close to 20 hours dual these days. By cutting the solo requirement from 20 to 10, and solo XC from 10 to 5, they were able to cut 10 hours off the average total time to PPL and still not see anyone having to fly out extra hours to get to the minimum total of 40.
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Seems like the stupid way of going about it. Why not raise the minimums to 60? If soo many people are taking 60 hrs to get everything in, well that's the price for technology. Is the FAA now saying that with technological advancements that a VFR pilot no longer needs to be as skillfull with their pilotage abilities? Or has human evolution just brought forth a breed of more intelligent humans that learn the extra 50% in the same time frame that those of us who were genetically challenged enough to be born a generation earlier took to learn what we had at that time?
I don't think this change has done the student pilot population, or GA in general for all that, any favors. "Well, since you have to learn more, we'll let you get by without learning anything as well." What a stupid concept. And yes, I hear all the students and low time pilots ready to fire away " Well I know it all just as well..." Bull puckey, you don't even know how little you know yet, just wait, it'll come. When I did PP pre GPS & all the technical advancements of the past decade, 40 hrs was minimal already and the common ciriculum already didn't contain what I consider to be vital skills. 5 hrs solo cross country just doesn't give you the exposure you need, heck, 10 barely did, but 10 typically meant 3 different flights, one longer multi leg with another 2 dual. Personally, I think this is the prelude to the curtailment of GA VFR XC flying.
 
Henning said:
Seems like the stupid way of going about it. Why not raise the minimums to 60? If soo many people are taking 60 hrs to get everything in, well that's the price for technology.
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Because not EVERYONE takes 60. I got mine in 2003 with 42.6 hours.

I don't remember how much solo XC I had. I did two dual XC's (MWC and PVB), then solo XC's to RFD, OVS, long to OSH and ETB. At that point I had the requirements done, but I did do another solo XC to OSH to meet a pilot friend of mine up there for lunch.

I don't recall having any problems at all on the solo XC's, with getting lost or anything else. I've done tons of XC since then as well. Dunno what the problem is... :dunno:
 
I'm with Kent. In addition to the point that some folks can do it in very near 40, raising the total would have taken us out of line with ICAO requirements, above with the old 20/10 solo/solo XC were excess. The FAA came to the conclusion that the extra 10 hours of solo and 5 hours of solo XC weren't necessary to being a competent Private Pilot-ASEL. Me? I don't agree, but they didn't ask me at the time and I doubt they'll change it on my say-so.

Anyway, it's all about the instructor's judgement on the competence of the trainee, and the instructor has the perogative to demand more if the required proficiency isn't there at the end of the minimum number of hours. I want to see three successful solo XC flights simply to be sure the trainee didn't just get lucky on the one and only flight to somewhere s/he's never been before (taking into account that I always make the first solo XC somewhere the trainee has already been with an instructor, a practice important to trainee confidence on that first trip alone).
 
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