Long forgotten regulations of the past

And how 'bout those Military Climb Corridors?

Military%2520Climb%2520Corridors.jpg


Yes, the current SFRA/FRZ is a mess. But back in the 1950s, huge swaths of the country were covered by ADIZ areas that required DVFR flight plans and position reports. Are you a Twin Beech, or are you really a Russian bomber ... ?

ADIZ.jpg
 
Reedster said:
By the way TRSA's still exist, although there are only a few of them.
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Macon, GA used to be a class C, and got "demoted" some years back to a TRSA. Only instance I know of where FAA went to *less* control of an area.
 
bullwinkle said:
Macon, GA used to be a class C, and got "demoted" some years back to a TRSA. Only instance I know of where FAA went to *less* control of an area.
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Was this before the airspace classification change? I thought there were no new TRSAs after the change.
 
Brad Z said:
Was this before the airspace classification change? I thought there were no new TRSAs after the change.
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I don't know the answer. But it was once a Class C and is now a D with voluntary TRSA participation.
 
SCCutler said:
ARSA, TRSA, TCA

Airport Radar Service Area - like Class D
Terminal Radar Service Area - Like Class C
Terminal Control Area - Like Bravo

Or so I recall...
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Holy crap, that took me back. :wink2:
 
Reedster said:
There was no Complex endorsement, only HP. I believe that changed in 97, the same time solo/PIC changed.



I do not have a Complex endorsement, although I regularly fly a retract Bonanza. I got the HP in 94, and have PIC time before 97 in a retract.



I am definitely getting old when anything I do is grandfathered in.
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I had the same issue and a slightly paranoid CFI decided to add the new style endorsements later on. So I have a HP and then a re-do of the HP and complex later on in the log when I flew the 182RG. Heh.

It made someone feel better somewhere I guess. Probably made the club paperwork harder for him to fill out or something.
 
Pilawt said:
Sometimes the look in the briefer's eye had more influence on your go/no-go decision than anything that was on the teletype or the thermofaxed prog charts.
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Amen to that. Now they all say "VFR not recommended" for anything other than a dead calm day and clear blue skies.
 
SCCutler said:
ARSA, TRSA, TCA

Airport Radar Service Area - like Class D
Terminal Radar Service Area - Like Class C
Terminal Control Area - Like Bravo

Or so I recall...
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NOPE, ARSAs went right into class C's.
TRSAs still exist as TRSAs.

Airport Traffic Areas were not controlled airspace in themselves. They were just the space around the tower. They weren't charted at all. They disappeared entirely and then came back after the FAA found out they couldn't live without them, though they abolished the term.

The charted thing you saw around towered airports was the Control Zone. These are now called (unfortunately) "Surface area of controlled airspace designated for an airport." They existed by themselves at airports where they were established (because there as an instrument approach and weather reporting) and also within TCAs and ARSAs (and TRSAs). The dashed line was replaced with T's if NO SVFR was permitted (now they just write NO SFVR).

All this didn't go away that long ago.

I've got a 1955 sectional chart sitting in my office for DC. Now *THAT* is before my time.



Other interesting regs that are gone was the Part of the FARs for the Metro DC airports (IAD and DCA) which had such fun things like it was illegal to put slugs in the vending machines there.

There used to be a requirement that CFIs (or was it ATPs) to be of good moral character.

If you've got some old timers around they may say "relicense" when they talk about annual inspections. The airworthiness certificate used to be reissued every year.

Complex landplanes have always had retractible gear. The issue is that the HP endorsement covered both more than 200 HP *AND* complex.
 
ARFlyer said:
"Position and Hold" made more since to me.

"Line up and Wait" makes me feel like a school kid waiting for permission to outside.
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Position and hold is much more intuitive and descriptive. I don't see airplanes lining up on runways. On a taxiway is where I see them lining up. There's usually only one in position to take off on the runway.
 
flyingron said:
There used to be a requirement that CFIs (or was it ATPs) to be of good moral character.
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Not sure about whether that was the case for CFIs, but for ATPs that's still true: 14 CFR 61.153(c)

Not sure there are many violations of that particular provision though.
 
People in the future who have never heard the controller say, "position and hold" will think it sounds antiquated. It's just a bunch of words. Be happy you didn't need to learn another language to get the "English proficient" endorsement since most of us are native English speakers.
 
denverpilot said:
I had the same issue and a slightly paranoid CFI decided to add the new style endorsements later on. So I have a HP and then a re-do of the HP and complex later on in the log when I flew the 182RG. Heh.

It made someone feel better somewhere I guess. Probably made the club paperwork harder for him to fill out or something.
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I have had a couple of younger CFI's question it, but when I pointed out that they were 1 when I got my HP endorsement, they generally get pretty quiet.

The CFI's that do our insurance sign offs are older, and so far they haven't pushed the change. I suppose it wouldn't hurt to get one, I can just see some young adjuster having a fit over it.
 
One thing I remember from when I was a VERY little kid (1950s), was that there was always a pile of parachutes stacked in the corner of the ops shack (I don't think anyone called them an FBO in those days) and you were encouraged to wear one in certain planes.
There wasn't a lot of "transition training".
When I went from floats to tailwheel the owner of the FBO tossed me the manual and said "First, read this. And remember, it flies different without the floats. Be careful."
The world was a very different place in 1963.
 
Shepherd said:
When I went from floats to tailwheel the owner of the FBO tossed me the manual and said "First, read this. And remember, it flies different without the floats. Be careful."
The world was a very different place in 1963.
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I walked into the FBO one sat and wanted to use my Citabria. The mgr said they had a last minute banner request. I was standing there with my GF wondering what to do and he tossed me the keys to a Varga Kachina. I said 'never flown this before'. He said 'it has a stick, read the manual in the glove box and you'll be fine.' Today, it would be an hour of ground work, and a 2 hour check out.
 
Remember when the "Visual Emergency Signals" were printed on the back of every chart?

Emergency%2520signals.jpg


Years ago aircraft operated for hire at night had to carry emergency landing flares. Some older Bonanzas, for example, have flare chutes built into the fuselage just behind the left wing root. Here's an excerpt from the owner's manual. Landing with a flare at night just does not sound like fun.

attachment.php
 
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Pilawt said:
Landing with a flare at night just does not sound like fun.
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Wally used to teach landing at night at Evergreen. One used two street lights out on Mill Plain and a dim bulb on the front of his hangar. Just land in the dark area!!

A flare? That would have been a blessing!
 
kgruber said:
Wally used to teach landing at night at Evergreen. One used two street lights out on Mill Plain and a dim bulb on the front of his hangar. Just land in the dark area!!

A flare? That would have been a blessing!
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There are a lot of dim bulbs out at Mill Plain & 136th these days. Problem is, they're all driving cars.

:crazy: :sigh:
 
My 182 was in the shop and I was joking with the FBO manager about a "loaner" since they had kept it WAY too long for a simple fuel tank leak. He offered me the keys to their Cherokee 140 and said just take this one. No check out, nothing. It was a good VFR day and my dad and I were flying about 30 miles to the NASCAR race in Atlanta. I had never been inside a Piper before, I almost couldn't get it to start! We finally got it going and had a good trip. :D

docmirror said:
I walked into the FBO one sat and wanted to use my Citabria. The mgr said they had a last minute banner request. I was standing there with my GF wondering what to do and he tossed me the keys to a Varga Kachina. I said 'never flown this before'. He said 'it has a stick, read the manual in the glove box and you'll be fine.' Today, it would be an hour of ground work, and a 2 hour check out.
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Still have my "Restricted Radiotelephone Operator Permit". Old requirement for using an aircraft radio - that is for the few planes that had radios.....
 
Still on the law books in Wichita Falls Tx, it's a form of disorderly conduct to create a "disagreeable bodily odor" in an elevator. (in other words its against the law to fart in an elevator). You can still be issued a citation for it today.
 
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Pilawt said:
Remember when the "Visual Emergency Signals" were printed on the back of every chart?

Emergency%2520signals.jpg


Years ago aircraft operated for hire at night had to carry emergency landing flares. Some older Bonanzas, for example, have flare chutes built into the fuselage just behind the left wing root. Here's an excerpt from the owner's manual. Landing with a flare at night just does not sound like fun.

attachment.php
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Haha CAP still teaches that crap in Communication classes. I had to follow the syllabus when teaching so I taught it and then added, "Setting the damn forest on fire is a whole lot better way to get someone's attention, if you're alive."

That flare sounds useful for that.
 
Snaproll said:
Still have my "Restricted Radiotelephone Operator Permit". Old requirement for using an aircraft radio - that is for the few planes that had radios.....
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You still need that if you fly outside the US. My 1974 paper copy came in real handy on my flight across Canada to Alaska. The airplane needs a radio station license outside of US. Not required inside the lower 48.
 
denverpilot said:
Haha CAP still teaches that crap in Communication classes. I had to follow the syllabus when teaching so I taught it and then added, "Setting the damn forest on fire is a whole lot better way to get someone's attention, if you're alive."

That flare sounds useful for that.
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We get some of those questions in our survival unit for recurrent. I recognize the "F" for food, and extending your arms up if you want to be rescued. I never knew where those questions came from. :dunno:
 
Snaproll said:
Still have my "Restricted Radiotelephone Operator Permit". Old requirement for using an aircraft radio - that is for the few planes that had radios.....
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I just brought mine for when I start applying to the airlines. I still find it dumb paying $65 to prove I can talk and I even have a ham license. :mad2:
 
Everskyward said:
We get some of those questions in our survival unit for recurrent. I recognize the "F" for food, and extending your arms up if you want to be rescued. I never knew where those questions came from. :dunno:
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Oh if you're interested I can send you the military/official one that shows all the ways to lay out a tarp to mean 50 different things... It's a lot easier to see a tarp than a person from the air.

Of course, if someone sees a tarp, they're just going to send a helicopter to land and lick you up or a ground person on a frigging four-wheeler or snow machine, as appropriate.

And setting the forest on fire still works better. Way more interested people show up LOTS faster.
 
denverpilot said:
Amen to that. Now they all say "VFR not recommended" for anything other than a dead calm day and clear blue skies.
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Some years ago my wife and I were flying back from eastern Washington. Didn't have my IR then, so we were coming down the Columbia River gorge. I called up for weather report with a particular interest in ceilings between where we were and KOLM. The briefer came back with a number of reports as low as about 2000 AGL. When he finished I commented that it sounded like another beautiful VFR day in western Washington. He came back saying that he was still having to get used to that mind set. He had been in our neck of the woods for about 6 months after years in the LA area. We came in under the clouds and had no trouble all the way home. Depends on what you are used to and what you know to expect.
 
denverpilot said:
Oh if you're interested I can send you the military/official one that shows all the ways to lay out a tarp to mean 50 different things... It's a lot easier to see a tarp than a person from the air.

Of course, if someone sees a tarp, they're just going to send a helicopter to land and lick you up or a ground person on a frigging four-wheeler or snow machine, as appropriate.
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Are all SAR personnel kinky or are they specially selected/trained for the task?
 
obviously you were allowed to smoke cigarettes in the plane since my panel has a cigarette lighter. I don't think there were too many cells phones and ipads in the 60's that needed a place to plug in for power. :lol:
 
I was bopping up through central Virginia and came across this conversation:

PCT: Cessna 123GT are you having a hard time finding Louisa?
123: No actually, we're just taking pictures of our house here.
PCT: Oh, I thought you were flying a triangular pattern.
ME: You're dating yourself.
PCT: Yeah, I guess I am.
ME: I could never remember whether I was supposed to go clockwise for transmitter-only failure or counter clockwise.
 
rbridges said:
obviously you were allowed to smoke cigarettes in the plane since my panel has a cigarette lighter. I don't think there were too many cells phones and ipads in the 60's that needed a place to plug in for power. :lol:
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That's still allowed.
 
If you say it's forgotton (thread title). This SHOULD BE THE SHORTEST THREAD. I'm just saying.
 
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