Long Flight

[Terry]

Hi all:

I have some company work to do in Riverton and Sheridan Wyoming.

I was thinking of flying from Hays, Kansas to Riverton, Wyoming in a 172. IFR rated and turbocharged.

I then need to fly to Sheridan and it looks like I will have to detour around to the east to miss mountains or rent a car and drive to Sheridan and then drive back to Riverton.

I would like comments and opinions. I was planning on going the week of September 8th.

Thanks;

Terry

p.s.> Just me flying.

 

[Terry]

Hi all:

I meant fuel injected, not turbo charged.

Sorry;

Was flying on the sim on the desk top and posting with my lap top.

It is called "multi-plasking"

Terry

 

[docmirror]

Own or rent?

 

[Terry]

Doc:

I rent. It is 10 1/2 drive from Hays, Kansas to Riverton, Wyoming.

Terry

 

[ntbjounin]

i'll vote to fly it. all the legs. even the riverton-sheridan leg. those mountains actually arent as bad as they look on the chart.

yes they're as tall as they say, but they didnt seem to cause much turbulence 2 weeks ago.

i think you'll be fine. you flown into mile high apts before? just basically double your landing and t/o distances. you'll be fine.

and if the flight is incidental to the work... the company can chip in or even cover the whole cost.

 

[AcroBoy]

A 172 is not the most capable airplane for such a long trip, unless you give yourself a couple of days of buffer on the way there and back. Over a long distance you may have to contend with ice, CB's, or widespread IMC, all of which can be difficult to handle under any circumstances, let alone in a typically equipped 172. If you leave yourself plenty of time on either end, and are ready and willing to either wait a few days for weather or park the plane and go commercial or drive, it would be a great trip. The problems arise when trying to force the issue into conditions that you or the plane are not equpped to handle.

 

[Lance F]

You know that experience thing everybody talks about? This is how you get it. And actually the less capable the plane the more experience you may get.

What that means (to me) is to do the trip. BUT (very big but) mind well the comments that Jim N made in his last two sentences. Don't do it if you absolutely, positively have to get there and/or be back at a precise time. That's too much risk and too much stress.

 

[AuntPeggy]

Hi all:

I have some company work to do in Riverton and Sheridan Wyoming.

I was thinking of flying from Hays, Kansas to Riverton, Wyoming in a 172. IFR rated and turbocharged.

I then need to fly to Sheridan and it looks like I will have to detour around to the east to miss mountains or rent a car and drive to Sheridan and then drive back to Riverton.

I would like comments and opinions. I was planning on going the week of September 8th.

Thanks;

Terry

p.s.> Just me flying.

I don't know how much experience you have, but here is a narrative of how two inexperienced pilots (Hubby & me) approached a similar challenge. We made plenty of mistakes, but not one was fatal.

The mountains part of the story starts at: http://auntpeggy.home.att.net/CATrek/CATrek7.html
The whole story is at: http://auntpeggy.home.att.net/CATrek/CATrek1.html

Now, with much more experience, I must agree that leaving yourself plenty of extra time to get there and to get back is absolutely essential.

Also, I'd like to suggest you carry some sort of weather information. We now have both AirGator's NavAir and Anywhere Map's moving map and "real-time" weather from XMWX on a tablet.

 

[ApacheBob]

My family and I stayed at the Best Western in Sheridan on August 21. We were on our way home from the Lewis and Clark Expedition to Washington state. The folks there were very friendly and the room was huge.
When I was studying for my IFR ticket, I reviewed the IFR approach to Riverton. That is totally cool.
Have a great trip. If the weather is good - GO FOR IT!
ApacheBob

 

[TMetzinger]

Go for it. Do good planning on the ground so you'll always have options, and don't be shy about switching to plan B (or C or D or...) as needed. As noted above, do it only if you can treat it like the fun adventure it is, and not be constrained by schedule.

 

[poadeleted20]

I see no technical reason not to do it. It's not likely to have ice be a major factor this early in the fall, and a 172 flown solo should have adequate reserve power for the trip. However, if you've never flown in the mountains before, you might want to add one day to your trip to catch a mountain flying course on the way out -- east of the hills!

 

[Everskyward]

Neither Riverton nor Sheridan are true mountain airports. There are mountains in the vicinity, especially of Sheridan, but they are both located in wide open areas. You will probably want to go east first, then north on your leg from Riverton to Sheridan. Pay attention to the DA. It can still be warm in September, or it can snow. Generally this is a good time of the year for favorable weather in this part of the country, though.

 

[Terry]

Hi All:

Hmmmmmmmmm all good reviews.

I decide not to take the flight. I am not comfortable with it and I have no mountain training. I don't want to get up there and contend with winds coming off the mountains.

I would be going up on a Monday and coming back on a Friday. If I was going up just one day, I would pick a good day and go.

Sorry all, but I just am not comfortable with the trip. I will get some mountain training under my belt first.

Thanks for all your advice.

Terry

 

[gprellwitz]

Hi All:

Hmmmmmmmmm all good reviews.

I decide not to take the flight. I am not comfortable with it and I have no mountain training. I don't want to get up there and contend with winds coming off the mountains.

I would be going up on a Monday and coming back on a Friday. If I was going up just one day, I would pick a good day and go.

Sorry all, but I just am not comfortable with the trip. I will get some mountain training under my belt first.

Thanks for all your advice.

Terry

No need to be sorry. You made the conservative and safe choice. Nothing wrong with that! Keep it in mind for the future, though, when you have enough time and can get a bit of specialized training before embarking on the flight!

 

[ejensen]

Hi All:

Hmmmmmmmmm all good reviews.

I decide not to take the flight. I am not comfortable with it and I have no mountain training. I don't want to get up there and contend with winds coming off the mountains.

I would be going up on a Monday and coming back on a Friday. If I was going up just one day, I would pick a good day and go.

Sorry all, but I just am not comfortable with the trip. I will get some mountain training under my belt first.

Thanks for all your advice.

Terry

You don't want to be on a schedule in a 172 in the mountains, well anywhere really. If I can't slide a day on either side there better be a commercial backup option.

 

[Terry]

Hi All:

A few things have changed.

It appears that I will be adding Montana, New Mexico, South Dakota, Illinois, and maybe Alabama into the plan.

It also appears that the company is going to pay for my commercial license and I will be taking the written exam in a couple of weeks.

Here is my history:
Total Time = 262 hours
Cross Country = 110 hours
IR = March 2007
Simulated hood = 70
Actual IFR = 5.1 (Cold mist & fog experience)
ILS Approach to 200' (Calm but cold)
Night = 17 hours
Multi engine, Aztec = 1.8

So, I am re-considering the Wyoming trip.

Hays, KS. to Riverton, Wyoming with fuel stop 1/2 way.

Riverton to Gillette to Sheridan, Wyoming.

Sheridan, Wyoming to Hays, Kansas with a fuel stop 1/2 way.

This is in the 172, instrument certified, that I have a lot of hours in.

The other trips will be made in a 182.

So, should I re-consider? It would appear that all of these airports would be a good "beginner" airport for me.

I have not flown "in the mountains" but lived in Colorado Springs for 20 years and have flown in and out of the Springs and Meadowlake.

For what it is worth, My step son gave me "Mountain Flying" for Father's day a couple of years ago and I have read it.

Okay, I value your judgment and comments.

Thanks;

Terry

Planning on leaving the 8th of September and returning Friday the 12th.

 

[TangoWhiskey]

Go for it!

 

[flyingcheesehead]

A few things have changed.

Terry,

Do it. Do all of them.

Plan the heck out of them, make plenty of alternate arrangements, and leave early enough that you can land, rent a car, and complete the trip on the ground if necessary. That's probably the most important thing whenever you're flying on a schedule - IFR, VFR, mountains or not.

It looks like from Hays to Riverton the MEF's are 9500 or below. Fly it at 12,500 (with oxygen if you so choose) and you should be fine. You'll have a bit of turbulence, but nothing terrible unless the winds aloft are screaming. IFR, the highest MEA along the shortest airway route (HYS HLC GLD V132 CYS V138 RIW) is 11,200 so fly it at 12,000. (It should go without saying that if you haven't flown this plane, similarly loaded, to those altitudes that you should do so beforehand to see how well it performs that high.)

Riverton to Sheridan will be a bit more interesting due to the Big Horn mountains. VFR, go to the Crazy Woman VOR first and you'll only need to go to 9,500 or 10,500. IFR on airways will add 46.3nm (RIW DDY CZI) but the highest MEA is 9,000.

With the caveats of knowing your airplane and leaving with enough time to ground-pound it if needed, all I can say is do it, Do It, DO IT, DO IT!!! It'll make you a much better pilot, as will all of these trips if you get to fly them GA.

FWIW, if you've read the mountain book, you won't have a problem on these routes. I took a mountain course on my trip, and the only parts relevant to your trip were covered in the book. The flying parts consisted of some airwork, and the rest was how to get in and out of tiny, obstructed mountain airstrips at high DA and how to cross ridges and do canyon turns.

Have fun, be safe, and learn!

 

[dparter]

As several people said... Do It!

And do a lot of planning, and a lot of contingency planning, and always leave yourself multiple options.

--david

 

[ScottM]

Hi All:

Hmmmmmmmmm all good reviews.

I decide not to take the flight. I am not comfortable with it and I have no mountain training. I don't want to get up there and contend with winds coming off the mountains.

I would be going up on a Monday and coming back on a Friday. If I was going up just one day, I would pick a good day and go.

Sorry all, but I just am not comfortable with the trip. I will get some mountain training under my belt first.

Thanks for all your advice.

Terry

Probably a good choice.

One of the things I always keep in the back of my mind is if I were to make the flight and for some reason had to interrupt it, would I still have time to land somewhere and grab a rental car to get to the destination?

That is something also consider as a back up.

 

[Everskyward]

I have not flown "in the mountains" but lived in Colorado Springs for 20 years and have flown in and out of the Springs and Meadowlake.

If you have flow in and out of the Springs and Meadowlake you should have no problem with this trip, at least as far as the mountain aspect is concerned. Like others have said, plan to go around the mountains and leave yourself some outs.

 

[Terry]

Hi All:

Decided to drive. I am not comfortable with a 172 that close to the mountains.

Thanks for all of your advice. I will see how the weather turns out this week and get a good lay out of the land.

Thanks;

Terry

 

[murphey]

Terry:

Not a bad idea to fly, it's chilly on the Front Range, looks like snow soon in the mountains, then back to 80+ for the Front Range.

A note for next time - using the routing
HYS-AIA-CPR-RIW-DDY-CZI-SHR

you never need to go above 7500 until the area around CPR, up to 9500 then back down. And if you're familiar with COS area, shouldn't be a problem.

 

[Everskyward]

Not a bad idea to fly, it's chilly on the Front Range, looks like snow soon in the mountains, then back to 80+ for the Front Range.

But for people looking for flyable IMC approach practice, this morning was great in the Denver area. The bases were at about 4C but the tops were 11C and it was clear above so there was no danger of icing.

 

[Easterner]

I applaud your judgment so far.

Here's an idea: wait until you have a plane that makes sense for this trip. A turbocharged piston twin with a single-engine service ceiling over 12,500 feet, and built-in oxygen, would do the job. Nothing less is appropriate; not even close to appropriate.

Wait until you have a rating that makes sense for that trip. A PPL is not that rating. A CMEL might be sufficient, if you have experience.

Wait until you have experience. 750 hours, if you have 30 or more of them in the mountains. It is best to have flown the area as copilot or FO with an experienced local ATP on a charter.

It is your life that is at risk. How can you "plan" a trip where you have no idea what you will face? All the cheerleaders who say "It should be fine, just plan ahead" are safe on the ground when the mountain wave churns your plane to flinders and you are just gore on the crags. Think it does not happen? Read the reports: it happens to people just like you.

This is not the olympics, or rock-climbing, or motocross. This is a form of transportation, like crossing the street, or driving your car to the grocery store. The point is not to prove you can run across the on-ramp, or drive through a hurricane. The point is to get from point a to point b alive.

Never, ever take a trip in an airplane that you are not absolutely sure you can complete safely. Even when you are absolutely sure, you are taking a risk that is higher than if you got on a bus.

Fly safe.

 

[dmccormack]

Never, ever take a trip in an airplane that you are not absolutely sure you can complete safely. Even when you are absolutely sure, you are taking a risk that is higher than if you got on a bus.

"Things without all remedy
Should be without regard; what's done is done." (Macbeth Act 3, Scene 2)

 

[wabower]

"Things without all remedy
Should be without regard; what's done is done." (Macbeth Act 3, Scene 2)

"Just grip it and rip it"

John Daly
USPGA & British Open Champion

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Here's an idea: wait until you have a plane that makes sense for this trip. A turbocharged piston twin with a single-engine service ceiling over 12,500 feet, and built-in oxygen, would do the job. Nothing less is appropriate; not even close to appropriate.

You have GOT to be kidding me.

I guess my non-turbocharged, non-twin, non-built-in-oxygen trip to the west coast was VERY inappropriate, then?

Are there risks? Sure.

Do you need a twin? No. Do you need to constantly keep in mind what you would do in the event of an engine failure? Yes.

Do you need built-in oxygen? No. Do you need to find your own limits with respect to altitude with oxygen and whether you may want to bring a portable oxygen bottle with you? Yes.

Do you need a turbo? No. Do you need to be aware of the true performance of the airplane you are flying at high density altitudes? Yes.

Wait until you have a rating that makes sense for that trip. A PPL is not that rating. A CMEL might be sufficient, if you have experience.

Unless someone is paying him to make the trip, a Private is the appropriate rating.

Wait until you have experience. 750 hours, if you have 30 or more of them in the mountains. It is best to have flown the area as copilot or FO with an experienced local ATP on a charter.

So, 7500 trips around the pattern is going to make him safer in the mountains?

Or, having had someone in the back seat paying money is going to make him safer?

I don't buy it. No, I don't advocate sending a freshly minted Private pilot who learned how to fly in the flatlands on a trip like that. However, a properly planned trip with the right amount of training and the right amount of solo experience is EXACTLY how we become better pilots. You must push the envelope one corner at a time, but you MUST push the envelope or you will never become a better pilot.

The first step is to get the Private and Instrument ratings. Next, take some long cross countries without mountains. Then, take some long instrument cross countries without mountains.

But then, one must head for the mountains.

It is your life that is at risk. How can you "plan" a trip where you have no idea what you will face? All the cheerleaders who say "It should be fine, just plan ahead" are safe on the ground when the mountain wave churns your plane to flinders and you are just gore on the crags. Think it does not happen? Read the reports: it happens to people just like you.

Funny, I got all of five hours of actual mountain flying and a couple of books read and questions asked of more experienced pilots, and somehow managed to survive.

Never, ever take a trip in an airplane that you are not absolutely sure you can complete safely.

There exists no such trip. Even you, Mr. Super-Pilot, cannot be absolutely sure that you will complete ANY trip safely, even one around the pattern.

Push one corner of the envelope at a time. But, you must push.

 

[sba55]

Sorry, I just have to jump in here.

To the OP: Go for it. You've got enough experience, you have the IR (the single most important factor), and a 172, if you're by yourself, is just fine. It's slow, but other than that, it's just as good as a (insert fast piston airplane here).

I applaud your judgment so far.

Here's an idea: wait until you have a plane that makes sense for this trip. A turbocharged piston twin with a single-engine service ceiling over 12,500 feet, and built-in oxygen, would do the job. Nothing less is appropriate; not even close to appropriate.

Huh? It's perfectly appropriate. Built-in O2 is always optional below 17-18000', and turbo-charging isn't necessary if he's way below max gross.

Wait until you have a rating that makes sense for that trip. A PPL is not that rating. A CMEL might be sufficient, if you have experience.

Really? Why would someone with a CMEL be better suited for this trip? IR is what matters, all that other stuff has nothing to do with the safety of the flight.

Wait until you have experience. 750 hours, if you have 30 or more of them in the mountains. It is best to have flown the area as copilot or FO with an experienced local ATP on a charter.

Hours have nothing to do with the safety of the flight, either. You take your experince into consideration when planning your mission. That way, you can be just as safe at 50 hours as you are with 5000. And this particular mission doesn't call for that much this time of year.

It is your life that is at risk. How can you "plan" a trip where you have no idea what you will face? All the cheerleaders who say "It should be fine, just plan ahead" are safe on the ground when the mountain wave churns your plane to flinders and you are just gore on the crags. Think it does not happen? Read the reports: it happens to people just like you.

He has a very good idea what he'll face...

<snip>Never, ever take a trip in an airplane that you are not absolutely sure you can complete safely. Even when you are absolutely sure, you are taking a risk that is higher than if you got on a bus.

Your attitude is probably more dangerous than his if you think you go on trips with their safety absolutely assured.

-Felix

 

[Easterner]

Your attitude is probably more dangerous than his if you think you go on trips with their safety absolutely assured.
-Felix

Read to the end of the sentence. By implication, what it says--and I realize this is hard for you to understand, because it involves a rhetorical device--is that even when you believe you have the lowest risk, and are absolutely confident, and have performed your entire ADM inventory, your risk remains quite high; much higher than any other form of transportation you are likely to use to achieve the same goals, at lower expense, in less time, and with greater reliability.

You have chosen to give "go-for-it" advice to someone you have even never met, much less assessed the skills of. I find it brazen and irresponsible to give that kind of advice. Could you not more responsibly advise this person that, if he has doubts, he should consult a CFI or an experienced pilot who knows him?

As for learning by "pushing the envelope": the suicidal idiocy of that approach has been remarked by too many reputable aviation safety writers to need reiteration.

It seems this forum is dominated by the great classic machismo school of GA: "give it a shot with what you've got; you will probably get through." What a terrible concept. With public policy, with finance, with airplanes, it always has the same result. Then someone else has to clean up the mess.

 

[dmccormack]

As for learning by "pushing the envelope": the suicidal idiocy of that approach has been remarked by too many reputable aviation safety writers to need reiteration.

It seems this forum is dominated by the great classic machismo school of GA: "give it a shot with what you've got; you will probably get through." What a terrible concept. With public policy, with finance, with airplanes, it always has the same result. Then someone else has to clean up the mess.

Not really.

Here's the deal -- you learn how to operate an airplane an its systems in training.

You learn to fly by yourself.

Certainly you should get assistance/evaluation from time to time.

But if you never leave the comfort zone of the right-seat bailout button, you'll never learn to fly.

"Pushing the envelope" does not only refer to the design parameters of the airplane, but also our own, self-made envelopes based on inexperience and ignorance.

 

[ejensen]

Never, ever take a trip in an airplane that you are not absolutely sure you can complete safely. Even when you are absolutely sure, you are taking a risk that is higher than if you got on a bus.

Fly safe.

Huh? I've taken many fights that I wasn't sure I could complete. Was I prepared to stop short, divert or otherwise change plans? - of course.

If you mean a trip to the exact minute, getting there and back on a guaranteed schedule then I mostly agree with you. But not even the airlines or a car are that good.

Agree that risk is higher than a bus even in your big twin.

As fore the rest of it, can't really add to what others have said. I've had lots of fun and adventure all over the west in my Mooney. No turbo, mostly without O2. Part of my adventure is getting there (or not) within the limits of my plane and myself.

 

[sba55]

Read to the end of the sentence. By implication, what it says--and I realize this is hard for you to understand, because it involves a rhetorical device--is that even when you believe you have the lowest risk, and are absolutely confident, and have performed your entire ADM inventory, your risk remains quite high; much higher than any other form of transportation you are likely to use to achieve the same goals, at lower expense, in less time, and with greater reliability.

Ignoring the fact that air transportation is safer than most other forms of long distance transportation, your statement did not imply any of the above. Instead, you said not to ever take a trip if you're not absolutely sure that it'll be safe. In any case, that's irrelevant to the OP's question, so I won't debate it.

You have chosen to give "go-for-it" advice to someone you have even never met, much less assessed the skills of. I find it brazen and irresponsible to give that kind of advice. Could you not more responsibly advise this person that, if he has doubts, he should consult a CFI or an experienced pilot who knows him?

No, I couldn't, precisely because I don't know his skill level. He's not looking for us to assess his skill or to tell him whether or not he should take the flight. He was simply presenting a few facts and asking if, based on those, we saw any obvious problems. I don't, and neither do a lot of other people. The go/no-go decision is his alone.

As for learning by "pushing the envelope": the suicidal idiocy of that approach has been remarked by too many reputable aviation safety writers to need reiteration.

Really. I've never learned anything in my life without pushing the envelope.

It seems this forum is dominated by the great classic machismo school of GA: "give it a shot with what you've got; you will probably get through." What a terrible concept. With public policy, with finance, with airplanes, it always has the same result. Then someone else has to clean up the mess.

The forum isn't dominated by any of that. If you truly believe that, you're misunderstanding the vast majority of posts here.

-Felix

 

[flyingcheesehead]

even when you believe you have the lowest risk, and are absolutely confident, and have performed your entire ADM inventory, your risk remains quite high; much higher than any other form of transportation you are likely to use to achieve the same goals, at lower expense, in less time, and with greater reliability.

Well by that reasoning, I guess we should all quit flying.

You have chosen to give "go-for-it" advice to someone you have even never met, much less assessed the skills of. I find it brazen and irresponsible to give that kind of advice. Could you not more responsibly advise this person that, if he has doubts, he should consult a CFI or an experienced pilot who knows him?

He came here looking for info from people who have taken such trips before. I'm sure he'll consult a CFI as well, if he feels it necessary.

As for learning by "pushing the envelope": the suicidal idiocy of that approach has been remarked by too many reputable aviation safety writers to need reiteration.

So, how is it that you learned what you know now, Mr. Super-Pilot?

The two basic building blocks of flying are the physical hand-eye-airplane coordination, and ADM. ADM is learned by gaining experience. Experience is learned by - you guessed it - pushing your personal envelope.

Like I said - Only one corner of the envelope at a time, but you must push the envelope.

It seems this forum is dominated by the great classic machismo school of GA: "give it a shot with what you've got; you will probably get through."

No, this forum is dominated by people who love flying and love sharing their knowledge of flying with others. Many private pilots who fly for fun will never make it to 1,000 hours of flight time - Yet, they can and do safely complete flights like this. It's all about the right combination of learning in and out of the airplane, experience, knowing their airplane, and using what they know to make the flight.

 

[ApacheBob]

You have GOT to be kidding me.

I guess my non-turbocharged, non-twin, non-built-in-oxygen trip to the west coast was VERY inappropriate, then?

Are there risks? Sure.

I don't buy it. No, I don't advocate sending a freshly minted Private pilot who learned how to fly in the flatlands on a trip like that. However, a properly planned trip with the right amount of training and the right amount of solo experience is EXACTLY how we become better pilots. You must push the envelope one corner at a time, but you MUST push the envelope or you will never become a better pilot.

Push one corner of the envelope at a time. But, you must push.

Right on, Kent!
There is too much doubt in our national persona. Would the Wright Brothers have pursued their endeavor without a guarantee of success in culture like our present culture?
Don't be stupid, but don't be scared!
Hindsight is always 20-20. I landed "gear partially retracted" after an engine failure - even after 300 hours of multi experience. Do I wish I had not crashed? Yes. Do I regret everything? NO.
I am still flying? YES!
ApacheBob

 

[Terry]

Hi All:

Point #1

Got up Monday morning in Hays and was solid IFR. I had already decided to drive this trip as I was not comfortable with taking the 172 that close to the mountains.

Ran out of IFR just east of Denver. Wished I had flown to Casper. Got to Casper and saw a 182 bouncing around due to winds coming off the mountains. Weather was VFR. Wished I had flown to Casper. Drove to Riverton and stayed the night. Finished work in Riverton and drove to Sheridan. Was marginal VFR so I was glad I drove. Had low level fog so I would have been clear on top and would have descended through fog layer for instrument approach. Minimums was 800'. Was glad I drove.

Finished up Sheridan Wednesday afternoon.

Thursday morning was solid IFR. Then cleared off and then back to solid IFR. Approach into Hays would have been another instrument approach but I am familiar with Hays.

Overall, I am glad I drove. I have a few other flights planned where I can fly up one day and back the next. Being gone all week makes it tough to catch good VFR days.

Thanks for all the advice.

Point #2

It bothers me when fellow pilots get into arguments over web posts. I just asked for advice and comments on a flight I was about to take. The final decision is always the pilot flying the airplane. I am very well aware of my limitations and abilities. I don't want to be an example case in "Safety" anymore than anyone else.

Bad pilots have a way of eliminating themselves through crashes or quit flying. The pilots who love to fly and who frequent a web board as this one are more serious and better informed than the "average Joe" who fly's to show off and doesn't post or ever come to this board.

There is no need to argue and get into name calling. If I don't like your advice I won't take it. On the other hand if you give me good sensible advice I would be more inclined to listen. No need to offend your "fellow pilots."

Be careful of advice you give. Fools won't heed it. Wise men don't need it.

I enjoyed all of your posts. That is why I keep coming to this board.

Thanks again;

Terry
ASEL, HP endorsed, IFR

p.s.> Did I mentioned that I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express?

 

[flyingcheesehead]

It bothers me when fellow pilots get into arguments over web posts. I just asked for advice and comments on a flight I was about to take. The final decision is always the pilot flying the airplane. I am very well aware of my limitations and abilities. I don't want to be an example case in "Safety" anymore than anyone else.

Bad pilots have a way of eliminating themselves through crashes or quit flying. The pilots who love to fly and who frequent a web board as this one are more serious and better informed than the "average Joe" who fly's to show off and doesn't post or ever come to this board.

There is no need to argue and get into name calling. If I don't like your advice I won't take it. On the other hand if you give me good sensible advice I would be more inclined to listen. No need to offend your "fellow pilots."

Well said Terry.

If nothing else, it seemed like your list of future trips would have a lot fewer difficulties than this one, at least in regards to terrain. I hope that you are IFR current and proficient and get to take all of those trips via airplane.

p.s.> Did I mentioned that I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express?