Long cross country as low hour pilot (500 miles each way)

Have fun! As others have said, get flight following, keep checking the weather, bring pee bottles, and also bottled water. Maybe some snacks too. Study the runway diagrams for all your stops and for your alternates. Allow extra time and bring extra clothes in case you do have to stop overnight (due to weather) at a motel somewhere. Don't try to set any world records; just have fun.
 
Go for it. You already understand it may not go as planned.
I got my ppl in August, flew from Houston to Daytona sept. oh and it was in a 172.
Plan plan plan and be flexible
 
My experience is a little different in that I had about 100 hrs between 1973 and 1985 and then stopped flying for over 25 years. I returned to flying in late summer 2011 and had about 25 hrs between then and January 2012 when I purchased a plane in California and had to fly it back to the east coast. So I effectively was a very low time pilot during that trip.

I had help from an experienced pilot to fly the Rockies with the proviso that we went past the Grand Tetons. But from Ames IA I was on my own.

At which point I spent 4 days sitting on the ground due to weather. I was tempted a few times to scud run to the Illinois border where the weather was clear, but I think I made the right decision to be patient. Maybe I would have risked it with more experience, but not where I was then (or even where I am today with another ca. 170 hrs of experience).

Flying ca. 550 miles from there to western PA was a non-event. Had to avoid some special use airspaces, and transit some Class C airspace, but mostly just following the pink line on my GPS (and tracking some VOR radials for the change of pace).

Flying the Allegheny mountains was the only real challenge. It was easier to fly at 13,000 ft at the peak over the Tetons in clear weather then it was to squeeze under the clouds in western PA. Ceilings were forecast to be at 3500 ft AGL, but as another poster noted, that is typically over valley locations. So mountain clearance was supposed to be about 2000 ft (still ok). But actual ceilings started out lower, and kept dropping as I flew eastward. It was useful to have terrain mapping on the GPS, and when the yellow spots started changing to red (as I descended to stay below the clouds), I had to do a 150 degree turn and divert to a local airport. Stayed there for lunch when the clouds rose, and flew the remaining ca. 250 miles home to NJ in comfortable VFR.

It wasn't difficult or dangerous. But it could have been if I hadn't had the time to interrupt the trip.

I don't know how I would have reacted if it was a rental with a daily minimum. Three hours per day at $150/hr would have been an big incentive to try and squeeze out of Ames instead of paying a total of $1800 for those 4 days on the ground. If your FBO has a daily minimum, you probably should think ahead about how you would react to the meter ticking while the plane sits on the ground.
 
bkspero said:
....

I don't know how I would have reacted if it was a rental with a daily minimum. Three hours per day at $150/hr would have been an big incentive to try and squeeze out of Ames instead of paying a total of $1800 for those 4 days on the ground. If your FBO has a daily minimum, you probably should think ahead about how you would react to the meter ticking while the plane sits on the ground.
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Not sure how much of a factor those 4 days would have been ... depends on how many billable hours and days the total trip took.
Say, coast-to-coast, 3 days for flying and 4 days waiting on wx = 7 days. 3-hr min per day * 7 days = 21 hours to cover daily minimums. How many billable flying hours did the trip take?
(IOW, the daily minimums can often be covered by the billable flying hours.)
 
My first XC after PPL was a 1.5 hour trip with my 21-yr old daughter as a passenger (at the time I was still widowed). Reflecting on it years later, now I realize that I was about as "tuned up" as I ever was going to be as a VFR-only pilot though I came dangerously close to making a decision to scud run. Fortunately I did not have to consider it as ceilings along the route lifted well above VFR minima.

I now routinely fly IFR in IMC for 2-3 hours without giving it much second thought but I still shudder when I think about how easy it would have been to make that stupid decision back then. So here's my advice:

1. Revel in your achievement and maximize the use of the privileges granted to you as a private pilot;
2. Be bold but not stupid. Fly it by the book. Do not, under ANY circumstances, challenge the weather. If it's not VFR at all points along your route and VFR is not unambiguously forecasted, wait it out!
3. Break the trip into 2-hour segments. Do this for two reasons: to minimize fatigue and to reassess the weather ahead from ON THE GROUND;
4. 180, 180, 180. If you suspect that you will encounter IMC ahead, land immediately or TURN AROUND! Reassess the situation on the ground;
5. Use flight following and flight watch;
6. Be flexible in your schedule. Even with an instrument rating I have spent the night in hotels on more occasions than I can count to wait out the weather and I don't mind flying in the slag down to minimums in most cases. So be afraid of the weather. It will kill you;
7. Take pictures and please share them here.

Congratulations rare and fellow pilot, and have fun!
 
JoeSelch said:
No reason he shouldn't have this information with him. AFDs are readily available - in print or free downloadable formats.
And, if he has GPS with current database, much/all of this information should also be available.
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Didn't mean to imply he would not have the info in the plane. Just meant a low time guy might get flustered trying to pull up the info on short notice when weather goes downhill, engine stumbles, he figures out his fuel burn is greater than planned, etc...
 
steingar said:
Simply untrue. Long trips involve issues of endurance and weather not found on their shorter brethren.

Also, don't let the Coloradians tell you the mountains of the Carolinas are no big deal. Colorado doesn't have any weather, Carolina does, especially in April. They are not surmounted easily VFR. It can be done, but I've had trouble in those hills every time I've flown over them.
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It is very true, each trip needs just as much care regardless of the distance.

Or have I been flying my short trips too seriously?
 
TMetzinger said:
give yourself time to spare, and enjoy the trip.
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Yup. My first flight as a private pilot was 700 miles.

Probably the most useful / important thing I did was to chat with ScottD beforehand to make sure I didn't fly into bad wx. Other than that, allow for a good amount of time and go for it.
 
A long cross country is no different than what you've been doing all along, you just keep going in the same direction longer.
 
RV10flyer said:
Yes, you guys have some big ones out there! I can't wait to fly out West.

Mt. Whitney- Elevation= 14,505'/Prominence= 10,080'. 9th most prominent in the U.S.

Mt. Mitchell- Elevation= 6,684'/Prominence= 6,092'. 50 something most prominent in the U.S.

Alaska has us all beat. At any rate they can all provide for some interesting flying when close to them. Once at about 70 hrs, I was landing on top of a very little hill in E. Ky. into a 20kt headwind in a 150 hp 172. I know now why you want to visualize airflow like water. I could not maintain altitude at full power for a few seconds on about a 1/2 mile final. The next time, I did not aim for the numbers and used a steeper approach. We all make mistakes and hopefully can learn to prevent many of them from others. Many things we run into as new pilots won't be a big deal 100-200 hours down the road. All of you POA guys and gals have helped in my flying. Thank you.
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True - although 12,000 foot peaks usually translates in to 8,000 to 10,000 foot passes, making transit very doable. The one "never again" thing I did once was to a direct flight over the Desolation Wilderness (general area in the Sierra Nevadas South of South Lake Tahoe). I needed to go to 13,500 feet to comfortably clear the peaks - no flying through passes there. 30 minutes of solid, vertical granite pinnacles. A forced landing there would not be survivable. (Yes I broke out the oxygen.)

comanchepilot said:
its not like its a problem to go around at the southern end - adding all of 15 to the ride. . . Florida is pretty far west all things considered
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True - although on a long trip like that altitude is your friend for no other reason than speed. Without consideration of winds aloft, I would fly that route at 8.5/9.5 anyway, which should offer plenty of clearance over the mountains on the direct path. I would have gone 11.5/12.5 in my Turbo Arrow.
 
steingar said:
Yeah, from Tallahassee it isn't that bad. Going into eastern Florida those rocks can be a pain.
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So - you fly to TLH and then simply fly a heading of about 130 - its not that far out of one's way from Ohio west . . .
 
I've been reading other folks trips - has it ever been clear in Western Pennsylvania?
 
JoeSelch said:
Not sure how much of a factor those 4 days would have been ... depends on how many billable hours and days the total trip took.
Say, coast-to-coast, 3 days for flying and 4 days waiting on wx = 7 days. 3-hr min per day * 7 days = 21 hours to cover daily minimums. How many billable flying hours did the trip take?
(IOW, the daily minimums can often be covered by the billable flying hours.)
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Good point. Total of about 16 hours of Hobbs time over 7 days to fly about 2200 nm. So only about 5 hrs extra in daily minimums. Would have been an extra $750 instead of $1800.

Now the OP's trip is more like 5 hrs. So if there was a 4 or 5 day weather delay mid trip, then, worst case, the charge would be 18 hrs (6 days...1 flying and 5 on the ground) minus 5 hrs of flying. So 13 hrs at $150/hr, or nearly $2000 for nothing. If it was only 4 days on the ground, then it would be about $1500 wasted.

Good weather planning should minimize the chances of a long weather delay on such a short trip, but not eliminate them. In my case the weather was forecast to be clear the whole way as we were following a snowstorm that came down from Canada through Montana and Nebraska, then turned east. For some reason there was an unforecast nearly stationary block of high pressure with low ceilings and subfreezing temperatures right over central Iowa. It was clear 200 miles away in every direction.

So I think my point is still reasonable. Think about minimum rental charges if you are forced to leave the plane on the ground, and make sure that you can and are willing to pay that extra money instead of taking extra risks to get moving again.
 
bkspero said:
...

So I think my point is still reasonable. Think about minimum rental charges if you are forced to leave the plane on the ground, and make sure that you can and are willing to pay that extra money instead of taking extra risks to get moving again.
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Yes - an excellent point. :)

And I just wanted to point out to a new-ish pilot that the daily minimums aren't added on top of actual usage - so, the cost of an unplanned layover may not necessarily be outrageous. (Especially if one has a pretty good idea about likely wx developments and keep such delays to a day or two.)
 
I don't have to worry about daily minimums so that's not an issue here. The only financial hit would be the extra hotels on my dime and possibly a rental car. Neither are deal breakers and well worth the experience I think. The flexibility on this trip is a big part of the reason I was considering it, since I won't be rushed into making a bad decision.
 
Just a reminder, for you young whipper snappers:
The solo cross country for PPL used to be hundreds of miles not 150 miles.
My first cross country solo, in 1964, was from Peekskill Seaplane Base, Verplank, NY 7N2, to Cleveland, OH (BKL if I remember correctly, or maybe it was Lakefront) and back in a PA-11 Cub on floats. My logbook is packed away in my childhood home in Peekskill, but I remember I left before dawn, it took me all day to get there (head wind, and flying to find fuel). I had to sleep in the plane, then came back the next day. I had used so much fuel getting out there, I didn't have enough money to get back home. I landed in Jamestown, NY with $3 and some change in my pocket, so they took up a collection for me and bought me fuel and lunch then sent me on my way. Yes I did fly farther than I had to, and my old man tanned my hide for doing it, but he didn't rat me out to my mother, who hated airplanes, and didn't know I was taking lessons.

Five hundred miles?
Go for it.
 
Shepherd said:
Just a reminder, for you young whipper snappers:
The solo cross country for PPL used to be hundreds of miles not 150 miles.
My first cross country solo, in 1964, was from Peekskill Seaplane Base, Verplank, NY 7N2, to Cleveland, OH (BKL if I remember correctly, or maybe it was Lakefront) and back in a PA-11 Cub on floats. My logbook is packed away in my childhood home in Peekskill, but I remember I left before dawn, it took me all day to get there (head wind, and flying to find fuel). I had to sleep in the plane, then came back the next day. I had used so much fuel getting out there, I didn't have enough money to get back home. I landed in Jamestown, NY with $3 and some change in my pocket, so they took up a collection for me and bought me fuel and lunch then sent me on my way. Yes I did fly farther than I had to, and my old man tanned my hide for doing it, but he didn't rat me out to my mother, who hated airplanes, and didn't know I was taking lessons.

Five hundred miles?
Go for it.
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Back then you could top off that Cub for $3 and have money left over for breakfast! :D
 
bkspero said:
Back then you could top off that Cub for $3 and have money left over for breakfast! :D
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Pretty close. I have a receipt for gas from 1964 and I paid 37 cents a gallon. I think it was for 115/145 octane, the receipt has "Widgeon" scrawled on the back. Those radials were persnickety about what you could run in them. Of course I was only making $8.00 on a good weekend working at the seaplane base in those days.
 
Sac Arrow said:
It's not all that much of a BFD. It's within nonstop range for most GA planes. 4+ hours in the seat is a bit rough though. I'd probably do with a stop if I wasn't in a super hurry.
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Unless you've got XM Wx or FIS-B onboard it may be worth a stop midway to re-check the weather. You can call Flight Watch (I assume they still exist but I haven't used that for several years) instead but pictures (weather maps) are worth a lot.
 
DrMack said:
My first XC after PPL was a 1.5 hour trip with my 21-yr old daughter as a passenger (at the time I was still widowed). Reflecting on it years later, now I realize that I was about as "tuned up" as I ever was going to be as a VFR-only pilot though I came dangerously close to making a decision to scud run. Fortunately I did not have to consider it as ceilings along the route lifted well above VFR minima.

I now routinely fly IFR in IMC for 2-3 hours without giving it much second thought but I still shudder when I think about how easy it would have been to make that stupid decision back then. So here's my advice:

1. Revel in your achievement and maximize the use of the privileges granted to you as a private pilot;
2. Be bold but not stupid. Fly it by the book. Do not, under ANY circumstances, challenge the weather. If it's not VFR at all points along your route and VFR is not unambiguously forecasted, wait it out!
3. Break the trip into 2-hour segments. Do this for two reasons: to minimize fatigue and to reassess the weather ahead from ON THE GROUND;
4. 180, 180, 180. If you suspect that you will encounter IMC ahead, land immediately or TURN AROUND! Reassess the situation on the ground;
5. Use flight following and flight watch;
6. Be flexible in your schedule. Even with an instrument rating I have spent the night in hotels on more occasions than I can count to wait out the weather and I don't mind flying in the slag down to minimums in most cases. So be afraid of the weather. It will kill you;
7. Take pictures and please share them here.

Congratulations rare and fellow pilot, and have fun!
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Good advice, except where I marked bold. My usual preference is to see 7+ miles of vis, but I'll fly down to 6miles. I've done 5 miles in training and it was crap. It's legal VFR.

I've also flown 10+ miles on OBSERVED, but when in the air, it was CRAP forward visibility (I could see air-ground slant 20+ miles). If I went VFR-IMC...that day was a possible recipe for it...and the NTSB report would have said "weather reported as VFR all along the route of flight".

I admire the OP for planning this trip. I admire him/her even more for executing it.
 
Fly-Fla,

If you would like to post back here and let us know a couple of days out, we'll "flight plan/wx check" with you. Even provide you with PIREPS from the ground along your route just prior to departure. Have fun.
 
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The FAA doesn't give people licenses unless they have proven themselves worthy of it. Remember that. But, never stop using your head and having a healthy respect for aviation because it can bite you and that's where people go wrong. You'll be fine and these long trips are the best ones you'll have.
 
Thanks again everyone for their comments. I will post again in a few weeks as I can start to see long range weather emerge.
 
comanchepilot said:
I've been reading other folks trips - has it ever been clear in Western Pennsylvania?
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This time of year? Hardly ever...

flyingcheesehead said:
Set yourself some personal wx minimums, especially for visibility - Being VFR in an unfamiliar area with 5 miles vis as a new pilot SUCKS. (Heck, it's not fun when you are in a familiar area.)
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What he said. BTDT, got the seat stains to prove it.

Sounds as if the OP has thought it through and has reasonable tools at hand. My favorite aspect of GA flying is those long XC trips. As others have said, be flexible, be cautious and have fun!
 
Great story. JOCC: What was the Xcountry requirement back then?

Shepherd said:
Just a reminder, for you young whipper snappers:
The solo cross country for PPL used to be hundreds of miles not 150 miles.
My first cross country solo, in 1964, was from Peekskill Seaplane Base, Verplank, NY 7N2, to Cleveland, OH (BKL if I remember correctly, or maybe it was Lakefront) and back in a PA-11 Cub on floats. My logbook is packed away in my childhood home in Peekskill, but I remember I left before dawn, it took me all day to get there (head wind, and flying to find fuel). I had to sleep in the plane, then came back the next day. I had used so much fuel getting out there, I didn't have enough money to get back home. I landed in Jamestown, NY with $3 and some change in my pocket, so they took up a collection for me and bought me fuel and lunch then sent me on my way. Yes I did fly farther than I had to, and my old man tanned my hide for doing it, but he didn't rat me out to my mother, who hated airplanes, and didn't know I was taking lessons.

Five hundred miles?
Go for it.
Click to expand...
 
Dave Krall CFII said:
Great story. JOCC: What was the Xcountry requirement back then?
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Honestly, I don't remember. the number 350 miles comes to mind, but I'm probably wrong. I do remember one leg had to be more than 100 miles. It's probably in my box of "pre-war" stuff at my Mom's house. I'll see if I can dig it out next time I go down to visit.
The trip to Cleveland and some of the other Great Lakes seaplane bases were a fab fan favorite, back in the day. Of course, back in the middle to late 1960's there were a lot more places still operational.
I also remember that there were BIG changes in the rules in 1966, that caused me some grief, but that's a story for another day.
 
Mine would have been 497nm according to SkyVector. It was probably about 10nm shorter than that because I did a flyby of KTVC instead of landing (Blue Angels TFR).

I had a very accommodating CFI back then. I wanted to do a grand tour of the LP and he signed me off for it. Okay, maybe "enabling" is a better word. :wink2:
 
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