Logging XC PIC time while IFR training?

Bonchie

Bonchie

Pattern Altitude
Joined
Mar 23, 2014
Messages
1,505
Display Name
Display name:
Bonchie
I want to make sure I'm reading the FAR correctly.

If I hold a PPL (i.e. rated for the plane I'm training in) I can count XC time while IFR training as PIC time as long as I'm at the controls, even under the hood, correct?
 
Bonchie said:
I want to make sure I'm reading the FAR correctly.

If I hold a PPL (i.e. rated for the plane I'm training in) I can count XC time while IFR training as PIC time as long as I'm at the controls, even under the hood, correct?
Click to expand...

Yup. If not, I'm in trouble.
 
Bonchie said:
I want to make sure I'm reading the FAR correctly.

If I hold a PPL (i.e. rated for the plane I'm training in) I can count XC time while IFR training as PIC time as long as I'm at the controls, even under the hood, correct?
Click to expand...

Like all things aviation, it depends, were you sole manipulator for the entire flight including takeoffs and landings?
 
EdFred said:
Like all things aviation, it depends, were you sole manipulator for the entire flight including takeoffs and landings?
Click to expand...

That does not matter.

He is rated in the airplane, he can log PIC any time he is sole manipulator. If he decides to give that last landing to his Instrument Instructor, he can log PIC for all except probably that last tenth of an hour. He can log PIc for all the time he is under the hood, plus.
 
BillTIZ said:
That does not matter.

He is rated in the airplane, he can log PIC any time he is sole manipulator. If he decides to give that last landing to his Instrument Instructor, he can log PIC for all except probably that last tenth of an hour. He can log PIc for all the time he is under the hood, plus.
Click to expand...

Ah, but look at the specific question, especially the "...I can count XC time..." part. The question wasn't solely about logging PIC. It was about logging cross country time as well. And to log the cross country time, he has to be, as EdFred said, "sole manipulator for the entire flight including takeoffs and landings"
 
midlifeflyer said:
Ah, but look at the specific question, especially the "...I can count XC time..." part. The question wasn't solely about logging PIC. It was about logging cross country time as well. And to log the cross country time, he has to be, as EdFred said, "sole manipulator for the entire flight including takeoffs and landings"
Click to expand...
I don't recall reading anything that said you have to be the sole manipulator for the entire flight to log XC but AFaIK the TO and landing are required by the definition of XC time.
 
gismo said:
I don't recall reading anything that said you have to be the sole manipulator for the entire flight to log XC but AFaIK the TO and landing are required by the definition of XC time.
Click to expand...
Has to be the entire flight including takeoff and landing to use it for Pvt/IR/CP XC PIC requirements. See the Glenn interpretation, page 4, first paragraph, second sentence.
 
Really? The "sole manipulator" makes no sense.

That would mean that if he's on a 5-hour flight, does the takeoff and landing, but at some point during the flight, hands the airplane over to his CFI for 30 seconds so that he can reach back and grab a bottle of water out of the back seat… he loses the ability to log XC?
 
Last edited:
DesertNomad said:
Really? The "sole manipulator" makes no sense.

That would mean that if he's on a 5-hour flight, does the takeoff and landing, but at some point during the flight, hands the airplane over to his CFI for 30 seconds so that he can reach back and grab a bottle of water out of the back seat… he loses the ability to log XC?
Click to expand...
Just a WAG but they are not talking about the "de minimis" control transfers. No need to use the "reductio ad absurdum" argument fallacy (sometimes the Latin phrases are still the best)

OTOH, the Chief Counsel really has said that if two pilots fly a long leg (say, 300 NM) and switch controls in the middle so that one does the takeoff and the other the landing, neither gets to log any cross country time.
 
gismo said:
I don't recall reading anything that said you have to be the sole manipulator for the entire flight to log XC but AFaIK the TO and landing are required by the definition of XC time.
Click to expand...
To be technical, there's nothing in the FAR definition that requires the pilot logging cross country time to perform the takeoff and landing, just that the flight include a landing at another airport. Requiring the pilot to do the whole flight is as much an interpretation as the takeoff and landing part.
 
Let's make this more practical.

I want to be able to log XC PIC time while doing IFR training to build towards the 50hr XC PIC requirement for the IFR ticket.

To do so I need to:

1) Takeoff/land
2) Be the sole manipulator on the flight, whether under the hood or not receiving instruction
3) Go land somewhere more then 50nm away

Correct?
 
Last edited:
Bonchie said:
Let's make this more practical.

I want to be able to log XC PIC time while doing IFR training to build towards the 50 XC PIC requirement for the IFR ticket.

To do so I need to:

1) Takeoff/land
2) Be the sole manipulator on the flight, whether under the hood or not receiving instruction
3) Go land somewhere more then than 50nm away

Correct?
Click to expand...

4) Be rated in category and class.
 
midlifeflyer said:
Ah, but look at the specific question, especially the "...I can count XC time..." part. The question wasn't solely about logging PIC. It was about logging cross country time as well. And to log the cross country time, he has to be, as EdFred said, "sole manipulator for the entire flight including takeoffs and landings"
Click to expand...

Ah ha..
 
midlifeflyer said:
Just a WAG but they are not talking about the "de minimis" control transfers. No need to use the "reductio ad absurdum" argument fallacy (sometimes the Latin phrases are still the best)

OTOH, the Chief Counsel really has said that if two pilots fly a long leg (say, 300 NM) and switch controls in the middle so that one does the takeoff and the other the landing, neither gets to log any cross country time.
Click to expand...

How do airline crews handle that when they switch entire crews?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top