Logging PIC

Half Fast said:
Maybe, maybe not.

See my post #33 above.
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No maybes about it. A student pilot may only log PIC when solo with the proper solo endorsements. A sport pilot who is working on the additional tasks for the private certificate is not a "student pilot." Basically, once you get any certificate above the student pilot certificate, you are never a student pilot again (unless for some reason your certificates are surrendered or revoked :eek::eek:). If the sport pilot is training in an aircraft the sport pilot has sport privileges for, say that Tecnam, basic "sole manipulator" box. If training in an aircraft, the sport pilot doesn't have sport privileges for, say a Cessna 172, only fits in the "sole occupant" box.
 
Half Fast said:
You do realize that if you were flying legally 12 years ago, you can go with Basic Med, right? No need to renew your Class 3 or provide any medical info to the FAA. Just an exam by any state-licensed physician and an online training course. Easy peasy.

You can fly LSAs if you want, of course, but even then getting Basic Med would open up options for you.
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They came up with the Basic Med during my time off, but from what I've been reading about it, I don't see it as any major change. Medical issues that the FAA believes could potentially affect safety will be reported. The only advantage I see is the extended the time between doctor visits.

Although a Basic Med would open up more options, it seems like it would be a double edge sword. For example, if found a better deal on a Luscombe 8E verses an 8A, when it came time to sell, an 8E would reduce the pool of potential buyers as it removes all the other sport pilots looking to buy.
 
RussR said:
Well, yes, technically, but a common enough, and small enough fiction in instructional flights that I for one am not concerned with.

I certainly don't start a stopwatch every time I take the controls to demonstrate something and then subtract that PIC time from the total flight time for their logbook. Very seldom would it ever total up to more than 0.1 though for a rated pilot. Maybe a tenth or two for a new airplane checkout, tailwheel endorsement, aerobatics training or something like that. I doubt many people subtract that time off the total for the PIC entry.

I never even thought about doing it. Does that make me an unintentional scofflaw?
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That's a damn good point. I've been on training flights during my aerobatic lessons for example when we switched back and forth many times between following her on the controls and vice-versa. No one had sole control during these times.
 
StikRudr said:
They came up with the Basic Med during my time off, but from what I've been reading about it, I don't see it as any major change. Medical issues that the FAA believes could potentially affect safety will be reported. The only advantage I see is the extended the time between doctor visits.

Although a Basic Med would open up more options, it seems like it would be a double edge sword. For example, if found a better deal on a Luscombe 8E verses an 8A, when it came time to sell, an 8E would reduce the pool of potential buyers as it removes all the other sport pilots looking to buy.
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You don't see an advantage to keeping FAA Medical Branch out of it (with a fairly small group of exceptions-cardiovascular, neurological, and mental health issues )?

What does sport pilot limitations have to do with it? With BasicMed you can fly any aircraft with maximum certificated takeoff weight of 6,000 pounds or less with up to 6 passenger seats. Neither Luscombe is an issue.

Perhaps the 18,000' and 250 KT limitations are bothering you? Or are you planning to fly for compensation or hire? Or to a country that doesn't accept it?
 
midlifeflyer said:
You don't see an advantage to keeping FAA Medical Branch out of it (with a fairly small group of exceptions-cardiovascular, neurological, and mental health issues )?...
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Maybe I'm missing something, but what's the difference between an AME and your primary physician when it comes to notifying the FAA about any issues affecting your ticket?
...What does sport pilot limitations have to do with it? With BasicMed you can fly any aircraft with maximum certificated takeoff weight of 6,000 pounds or less with up to 6 passenger seats. Neither Luscombe is an issue.

Perhaps the 18,000' and 250 KT limitations are bothering you? Or are you planning to fly for compensation or hire? Or to a country that doesn't accept it?
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One of the advantages of being a sport pilot in the first place is having the ability to fly with only a driver's license. Getting a Basic Med might not be a problem for me and some others, it certainty might be for many others. For many it's probably the primary reason they decide to learn or continue to fly.
 
StikRudr said:
Maybe I'm missing something, but what's the difference between an AME and your primary physician when it comes to notifying the FAA about any issues affecting your ticket?
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You're missing something. Something pretty big.

Your physician does not report anything whatsoever to the FAA. Only to you. And you don't report any medical info to the FAA, either. Your doc signs a form and you keep it in your logbook; it does not go to the FAA. The FAA medical folks are completely out of the picture.

If your physician refuses to sign due to some condition you have, the two of you can agree on a treatment plan that will get his signature, or you can go to another doctor (it doesn't have to be your primary care physician), or you can fly as a SP, or you can decide your doc is right and stay on the ground. But NONE of that goes to the FAA! You cannot get a denial out of a Basic Med exam like you can a class 3.

You could go get a Basic Med exam today, complete a free online class, and be medically legal to fly with zero risk of a denial, zero risk of losing Sport Pilot privileges.

That seems like a pretty big advantage to me.
 
Half Fast said:
You're missing something. Something pretty big.

Your physician does not report anything whatsoever to the FAA. Only to you. And you don't report any medical info to the FAA, either. Your doc signs a form and you keep it in your logbook; it does not go to the FAA. The FAA medical folks are completely out of the picture.

If your physician refuses to sign due to some condition you have, the two of you can agree on a treatment plan that will get his signature, or you can go to another doctor (it doesn't have to be your primary care physician), or you can fly as a SP, or you can decide your doc is right and stay on the ground. But NONE of that goes to the FAA! You cannot get a denial out of a Basic Med exam like you can a class 3.

You could go get a Basic Med exam today, complete a free online class, and be medically legal to fly with zero risk of a denial, zero risk of losing Sport Pilot privileges.

That seems like a pretty big advantage to me.
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I had thought the examiner was required to report the results to the FAA. Although a physical and a doctor's approval is still required, I can see the huge advantage of being able to shop for your physician. Add the additional two years before a reexamination and I can see that it's a big advantage for private pilots.
 
StikRudr said:
I had thought the examiner was required to report the results to the FAA. Although a physical and a doctor's approval is still required, I can see the huge advantage of being able to shop for your physician. Add the additional two years before a reexamination and I can see that it's a big advantage for private pilots.
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Nope, nothing goes to the FAA. So if you have a rare case of Roomis Igloomis that would require an SI and testing every 6 months to hold a class 3, instead you and your doc can just agree that you won't eat any more mushrooms, he signs the form, and you can go fly. Simple.

It keeps medical conditions and treatments between you and your physician, where it belongs, instead of in the hands of Oklahoma physician-bureaucrats who've never met you, much less examined you.
 
One thing that does go to the FAA is a report of passing the BasicMed medical education course every two years. That's how the FAA finds out that you're qualified under BasicMed. (It's forwarded to the FAA by either AOPA or the Mayo Clinic, whichever one you took the course with.)
 
Palmpilot said:
One thing that does go to the FAA is a report of passing the BasicMed medical education course every two years. That's how the FAA finds out that you're qualified under BasicMed. (It's forwarded to the FAA by either AOPA or the Mayo Clinic, whichever one you took the course with.)
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Quite true. But it has no medical info, and it’s record-keeping only. There’s no decision the FAA can make about it.
 
[QUOTE="RussR, post: 3288765, member: 8794"Now, the 2015 Murphy letter is interesting in that it doesn't actually prohibit logging both simultaneously. It almost says that but then throws in a weird last sentence. The regulations if read in isolation do pretty clearly allow you to log both at the same time (as Murphy asks), why someone would do that I have no idea, but it does allow it. The 2015 letter only says that you can't "double log" it in a way that would misrepresent your total time - that last sentence. But if you log 1.0 PIC, 1.0 SIC and 1.0 total, that's weird but doesn't necessarily misrepresent your time - you said right there that your total time was 1.0. I also think it's dumb, though, because then maybe you end up with 10,000 total hours, including 9000 PIC and 9000 SIC, which is just dumb.[/QUOTE]

I think the idea is to just not report it as 9000 plus 9000 and make it look like 18000 hours.
 
midlifeflyer said:
He was probably thinking "student pilot" when he said "pre-PVT." If you already have a Sport or Recreational Pilot certificate, you fit in the "sole manipulator" box if flying an aircraft you are rated or have sport pilot privileges for. You are not a "student pilot."
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Exactly. You are not a Student Pilot (as in holding a Student Pilot certificate), you are a rated pilot.
 
StikRudr said:
Maybe I'm missing something, but what's the difference between an AME and your primary physician when it comes to notifying the FAA about any issues affecting your ticket?
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"From what [you] have been reading about it" where did you find even one word even suggesting your personal physician has to notify the FAA of anything?
 
midlifeflyer said:
"From what [you] have been reading about it" where did you find even one word even suggesting your personal physician has to notify the FAA of anything?
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As I told Half Fast, I was mistaken and apparently there isn't a place where one word even suggests your personal physician has to notify the FAA of anything.
 
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