Logging glider time as a student PPL?

[azblackbird]

Once or twice a year I like to head out to our local glider port, or hit up the one in Durango, CO and get my aerobatic thrills for an hour or so. So far I've considered them as just rides and not any actual instruction. Which got me to thinking...

If the next glider ride I take and I'm still under the student PPL umbrella, can I go ahead and take the next ride as actual instruction and log that time towards a glider rating?

Here's one of the regs I'm referring too...

Holders of a valid FAA Power plane license with 40 hours as pilot-in-command need a minimum of 10 solo flights to qualify to take the glider flight test. No written exam is required to add a glider rating to a power license. In all cases, refer to the Federal Aviation Regulations for details on pilot licensing.

If I can legally log the hours as dual glider instruction towards the rating, do I log them in my regular PPL logbook and notate that these hours were for glider, or do I keep a separate logbook for glider only? Just curious...

 

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

Are you flying with an instructor or a commercial pilot? Just riding or flying?

Assuming that you are "learning" with and instructor, and he/she/it is willing to sign off on it - then yes, it could be logged. Yes that time would count towards a glider rating some day.

I would put it into one book - add "glider" and "glider dual instruction" columns, but that's me.

 

[MauleSkinner]

Absolutely loggable and usable with a CFI-G.

I always kept a separate glider log because the things you keep track of are a little different...tow height, type of tow, etc., but also put it in my primary log to keep track of all of my flying (it still counts as Total Time towards your Private and other certificates/ratings) in one place.

 

[azblackbird]

Are you flying with an instructor or a commercial pilot? Just riding or flying?

Assuming that you are "learning" with and instructor, and he/she/it is willing to sign off on it - then yes, it could be logged. Yes that time would count towards a glider rating some day.

I would put it into one book - add "glider" and "glider dual instruction" columns, but that's me.

At first they were just rides with some "hands-ons" on flying, but as the years progressed I'd let the instructor know what I did on my previous rides (wether here or in Durango) and he'd usually let me have control after the release and then just talk me through the maneuvers. On landings, they'd usually let me get down close to the flare and then take over from there with me just feeling what their doing. I guess now that I'm getting back into flying I might as well go ahead and take actual glider instruction and log it as such. As far as logging the time in one book, I think that answered my question... thanks for the response. In all honesty I never thought to ask about their ratings. I would presume they were commercial instructors as I specifically request an instructor/pilot with aerobatic experience when I make my reservations.

 

[azblackbird]

Absolutely loggable and usable with a CFI-G.

I always kept a separate glider log because the things you keep track of are a little different...tow height, type of tow, etc., but also put it in my primary log to keep track of all of my flying (it still counts as Total Time towards your Private and other certificates/ratings) in one place.

Okay... one vote for keeping a separate logbook, and one vote for logging the time in my regular logbook. Hopefully others will chime in. Personally I think I would rather keep separate logs for the reasons you stated. But then again some logbooks are large enough and have different columns to notate which type of aircraft you are flying and allow plenty of space for any notes. But that's another thread on who makes the best logbook.

 

[brcase]

As stated, if the pilot your flying with is an instructor you can log it.
However, only 3 hours total is the only "legal" time requirement to add a glider rating.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL

 

[SkyDog58]

amazing

 

[MauleSkinner]

As stated, if the pilot your flying with is an instructor you can log it.
However, only 3 hours total is the only "legal" time requirement to add a glider rating.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL

But quite a bit more can be applied toward the Private ASEL.

 

[azblackbird]

As stated, if the pilot your flying with is an instructor you can log it.
However, only 3 hours total is the only "legal" time requirement to add a glider rating.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL

Are you talking only 3 hours of dual? I understand I need 10 solo flights. About how many hours would that translate to if it's even applicable?

 

[MauleSkinner]

Are you talking only 3 hours of dual? I understand I need 10 solo flights. About how many hours would that translate to if it's even applicable?

With short pattern tows, 10 solo flights would be less than an hour.

With good lift, 10 solo flights could be upwards of 60-80 hours.

It'll probably be somewhere in between.

61.109 is the reg.

 

[azblackbird]

But quite a bit more can be applied toward the Private ASEL.

Are you saying I can apply glider hours towards my student PPL time? I'm a little confused.

 

[brcase]

Are you talking only 3 hours of dual? I understand I need 10 solo flights. About how many hours would that translate to if it's even applicable?

Nope, to requirement for Dual, other than enough to convince your instuctor to sign you off for solo.

I in fact had only 3 dual flights with an instructor and 2 flights with a commercial pilot when I soloed.
However the 2 commercial flights were a total of 4 hours of flight time(not logable).

My 1st solo I thermaled to about 6000AGL (cloud base) and realized I had 9 more solo flights to complete, otherwise I could have flown the rest of the afternoon.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL

 

[MauleSkinner]

Are you saying I can apply glider hours towards my student PPL time? I'm a little confused.

61.109 says 40 hours total for the Private ASEL. Certain amounts have to be in single-engine airplanes doing certain things, but those don't add up to 40. Your glider time (or multi or ASES or helicopter or whatever) can be used for the remainder.

 

[azblackbird]

61.109 says 40 hours total for the Private ASEL. Certain amounts have to be in single-engine airplanes doing certain things, but those don't add up to 40. Your glider time (or multi or ASES or helicopter or whatever) can be used for the remainder.

Very interesting... good to know. Thanks.

 

[brcase]

Are you saying I can apply glider hours towards my student PPL time? I'm a little confused.

Sorry, I missed that you were still a student pilot. The 3 hour requirement for glider applies only if you have 40 hours or more in other aircraft.

However you can apply your glider time to some of Power Private pilot requirement such as the 40hour requirement, essentially if the time requirement is for "aircraft" you can count the glider time, If it says "airplane" then the time must be completed in an airplane.

However in practice you will won't need the glider time to meet the airplane PPL requirements, but the glider time will make you a better airplane pilot

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL

 

[azblackbird]

My 1st solo I thermaled to about 6000AGL (cloud base) and realized I had 9 more solo flights to complete, otherwise I could have flown the rest of the afternoon.

I'm a loafer too, on some of my flights we could have spent a half a day or more as the elevators were that good, but the guys usually had other people on the waiting list so I didn't want to tick off those waiting by yelling more, more, more over the intercom.

 

[azblackbird]

Sorry, I missed that you were still a student pilot. The 3 hour requirement for glider applies only if you have 40 hours or more in other aircraft.

However you can apply your glider time to some of Power Private pilot requirement such as the 40hour requirement, essentially if the time requirement is for "aircraft" you can count the glider time, If it says "airplane" then the time must be completed in an airplane.

However in practice you will won't need the glider time to meet the airplane PPL requirements, but the glider time will make you a better airplane pilot

Got it... thanks. I love flying in gliders. Totally different experience especially when doing aerobatics. Everything is more serene.

 

[saddletramp]

Regarding logbooks, I keep separate ones. I agree with Mauleskinner.

Since becoming a CFI-G many years ago I've logged my glider time in actual glider logbooks. I keep that time in minutes due to many short glider flights.

I usually recommend that to my glider add-on students too. But they can log their time however they wish.

Learning to fly a glider is easy. Being a proficient glider pilot...very difficult.

 

[azblackbird]

Regarding logbooks, I keep separate ones. I agree with Mauleskinner.

Since becoming a CFI-G many years ago I've logged my glider time in actual glider logbooks. I keep that time in minutes due to many short glider flights.

I usually recommend that to my glider add-on students too. But they can log their time however they wish.

Learning to fly a glider is easy. Being a proficient glider pilot...very difficult.

Thanks for the info @saddletramp ... Just curious... do you do aerobatics in your glider, and if so do you wear a chute?

 

[saddletramp]

No aerobatics presently or planned. We are just getting our operation up & running.

In the past when I've done aerobatics in a glider we would often put a chute on.

 

[KyleT]

Off topic but what glider port in Durango? Then one north closer to Hermosa sold and closed didn't it?


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[azblackbird]

Off topic but what glider port in Durango? Then one north closer to Hermosa sold and closed didn't it?

The one north of town right off the million $$$ highway to Silverton. I just did a search and lo and behold they are closed. Looks like they closed in Dec of '15. We were up there in July of '15 and nobody mentioned a word. That sucks. Is there another glider port in the area? I've never bothered to look, just enjoyed going to that one because it was convenient to where we always stayed.

 

[Lindberg]

 

[BillTIZ]

Are you saying I can apply glider hours towards my student PPL time? I'm a little confused.

All in all, there are only about 5 glider hours that can be applied towards the airplane ppl.
Read the reg, pay attention to where it defines what can be accomplished in an aircraft, and what has to be in an airplane.

 

[BillTIZ]

The one north of town right off the million $$$ highway to Silverton. I just did a search and lo and behold they are closed. Looks like they closed in Dec of '15. We were up there in July of '15 and nobody mentioned a word. That sucks. Is there another glider port in the area? I've never bothered to look, just enjoyed going to that one because it was convenient to where we always stayed.

They got on in years, could not sell the business and closed.

 

[denverpilot]

Off topic but what glider port in Durango? Then one north closer to Hermosa sold and closed didn't it?

The one north of town right off the million $$$ highway to Silverton. I just did a search and lo and behold they are closed. Looks like they closed in Dec of '15. We were up there in July of '15 and nobody mentioned a word. That sucks. Is there another glider port in the area? I've never bothered to look, just enjoyed going to that one because it was convenient to where we always stayed.

They got on in years, could not sell the business and closed.

They also sold their towplane to the Boulder club, AFAIK.

 

[Acrodustertoo]

I "logged" a plate of tacos once because it caused me to have to jump up from my chair and fly to the bathroom.