Logging cross country with 2 pilots.

[Samuel Seidel]

So the circumstance is flying a 2 hour >50nm cross country where one pilot flies one leg and the other pilot flies the second leg.

Each pilot logs 1.0h of PIC and 2.0h of cross country. Is this correct?

 

[bflynn]

No, each pilot logs 1 hour of XC. You are not a required crew member and you didn’t fly it, right?

now, if you want to trade off PIC duties with the non flying pilot being PiC, you could log 2 hours of PIC and I think 2 hours of XC, assuming you are qualified to be pic.

 

[RussR]

Given your scenario, while one pilot is flying, the other is simply a passenger. Why do you think they should be able to log time?

 

[Samuel Seidel]

No, each pilot logs 1 hour of XC. You are not a required crew member and you didn’t fly it, right?

now, if you want to trade off PIC duties with the non flying pilot being PiC, you could log 2 hours of PIC and I think 2 hours of XC, assuming you are qualified to be pic.

Alright, my logbook has duration of flight and airplane SEL fields. I would put 2.0 for duration of flight and what should I put in Airplane SEL?

 

[AggieMike88]

Alright, my logbook has duration of flight and airplane SEL fields. I would put 2.0 for duration of flight and what should I put in Airplane SEL?

Well, unless you were flying anything other than an airplane that had a single engine and designed to only operate on land…..

To paraphrase quote Ed and Mark, “why do you folk need to make this so complicated?”

 

[RussR]

Alright, my logbook has duration of flight and airplane SEL fields. I would put 2.0 for duration of flight and what should I put in Airplane SEL?

Since you're not asking about the "safety pilot" scenario, there is no provision for you to log PIC time when you are not actually flying the plane. Read 61.51, it's pretty clear about when you can log PIC time in this scenario.

If you really did trade off equally, you log 1.0 PIC, 1.0 ASEL, 1.0 total, etc.

 

[Samuel Seidel]

Since you're not asking about the "safety pilot" scenario, there is no provision for you to log PIC time when you are not actually flying the plane. Read 61.51, it's pretty clear about when you can log PIC time in this scenario.

If you really did trade off equally, you log 1.0 PIC, 1.0 ASEL, 1.0 total, etc.

Your saying duration of flight should be 1?

 

[RussR]

Your saying duration of flight should be 1?

If I am understanding your scenario correctly, that you and another pilot fly an hour to another airport, then you swap who is actually flying and come back, then yes, of course the duration of YOUR flight is 1.0.

You're suggesting logging time for just sitting there and doing nothing? That's called being a passenger and there is no "loggable" time for being a passenger.

You log it the exact same way you'd log riding in seat 47F on the airlines - meaning, not at all.

 

[Samuel Seidel]

If I am understanding your scenario correctly, that you and another pilot fly an hour to another airport, then you swap who is actually flying and come back, then yes, of course the duration of YOUR flight is 1.0.

You're suggesting logging time for just sitting there and doing nothing? That's called being a passenger and there is no "loggable" time for being a passenger.

Well it says duration of flight not time flying. So I guess if I want to keep track of the actual flight I need to put that in the comments.

 

[eman1200]

If I am understanding your scenario correctly, that you and another pilot fly an hour to another airport, then you swap who is actually flying and come back, then yes, of course the duration of YOUR flight is 1.0.

You're suggesting logging time for just sitting there and doing nothing? That's called being a passenger and there is no "loggable" time for being a passenger.

You log it the exact same way you'd log riding in seat 47F on the airlines - meaning, not at all.

there is a local facebook group of mostly low time, very unknowledgeable local pilots and the sht they come up with to A) get other people to pay for their time and B) somehow log time even thinking about flying is unreal. "I had a dream I was flying under the hood, can I round up and log 2.5 hours even though my dream was only 1.7 hours? also, since I dreamt person X was in the plane, when can I expect them to pay for half the flight? finally, since we've been discussing this dream for .4 hours, should I add that to my simulated instrument time as well?"

 

[RussR]

Well it says duration of flight not time flying. So I guess if I want to keep track of the actual flight I need to put that in the comments.

"Total time" or "duration of flight" or whatever an individual logbook manufacturer decides to call it, is not a category found in 61.51. Remember that the format of a logbook is not in any way approved or blessed by the FAA. You could start making logbooks that have a column called "time sitting in the airplane with the engine stopped" but it wouldn't mean anything.

However, the concept of "total time" to mean "total piloting time" is extremely important for job applications, insurance paperwork, meeting experience requirements for certificates and ratings, etc. If you have it showing all kinds of unloggable time, you will have to keep track of it later to subtract it out, and that will look VERY suspicious to any DPE, hiring official, FAA, etc.

Why do you feel a need to keep track of the total time the airplane was in the air, anyway? The only thing that matters is how long YOU are flying. That said, if you want to put in the remarks "2 hour flight with Bob, we each flew half", there's absolutely no problem with that.

 

[Skip Miller]

Samuel, you can log 15 or 150 hours in that column if you want - it is your logbook and you can do as you please.

For your convenience you may want to log time that counts toward a rating or endorsement. Time in flight as a passenger doesn’t count for squat. Log it if you like, but there is no ASEL requirement for any time logged as a pax.

When your DPE reviews your logbook line by line before your checkride, all irrelevant log items may well make your DPE wonder what you are trying to hide by all the irrelevant lines in your log. Don’t do it. And ask your CFI to explain this in more detail.

-Skip

 

[Albany Tom]

Maybe if the other pilot is terrible, you could put in a column for "time scared" and put 1.0 in that. I'm sure many DPE's and CFI's could relate to it. I could probably put a few tenths in myself, with some flights where my other time was all logged as PIC.

 

[RobertGary1]

If you want to beef up your pic time for your book you can make the non flying pilot a required crew member by being safety pilot. The flying pilot wears the hood. The safety pilot serves as pic (now a multi crew operation) and holds the required credentials as pic.