Logbook

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Hey everyone, posting this here because frankly, I do not know where else to post it. I am still a fairly new pilot, 200 hours total time (mostly helicopter and tailwheel asel). My logbook has been in the hands of many instructors, and some of them insist that they themselves fill in the entry. Over the past couple of years my logbook (brief as it may be) has become rather messy and crowded, mostly due to instructors, but I have made mistakes as well. I have also flown many types of aircraft and the logbook was just too small to record it all.

My girlfriend just bought me a nice Jeppesen Professional Logbook and a nice leather cover because I do intend on making aviation my career. I would like to transfer my time from my previous logbook (cheap vinyl starter logbook) into my new logbook, but I have questions.

For starters, I understand that a logbook is to be treated as a legal document, and should never be messy in the first place, I have learned my lesson, and I no longer allow instructors to touch my logbook other than a signature. As I prepare for my instrument, commercial, and CFI, I would like to have a nice logbook to present to employers. Can I do this? I understand my original vinyl logbook has all of my official endorsements, but can I not just transfer them to the new log (minus signatures)?? It's not like I never received the training, I am simply making a well presented backup and I intend on storing my original logbook is a very safe place, as well as online. Could I contact my CFI's and get them to endorse the copies? I really do not know how this works.

I just don't know what I can/should do, vs. what an employer might think and I am very hesitant to copy and endorsement at this point. Any help is greatly appreciated.
 
Go digital. I am not going the career route but now I use a logbook app for all my hours and only use the paper log book for CFI signatures and endorsements. EVERYTHING is in the app program cleanly and only the required entries with sign offs are in the paper log book.

There are apps that you can do the signature digital, but found that many CFI are not game to try and figure that out.
 
My only concern with using an online program as my primary logbook, is in a face-to-face interview situation. I would imagine the interviewer would like to look at a hardcopy of your logbook, if nothing else but to judge record keeping and neatness. Perhaps this does not matter, but at my current job all of my logbook entries are scrutinized for cleanliness.

What online programs are everyone using? I am only aware of a couple.
 
I fly for a living and my logbook is a spiral notebook. I just reproduce the columns and keep on going.

One time I went in for a job and the director of operations wanted to look at my log book. I presented my bright red spiral notebook. He looked at it and told me that the FAA won't accept this as a log book. I told him I beg to differ. The FAA doesn't care if I keep a log book except for currency and to show times to advance a certificate or rating, and a person can use a paper poke for that. He told me he will have the FAA look at it and make a decision.

Later that day he called me in and said the FAA told him I had a great log book.

That incident and a couple others showed me that this company wasn't holding up to my expectations, so I declined the job and worked for their competition.

When I was a student everyone threw away their student log book because they wanted a "real" logbook. I dug them out of the trash and used them for years, until I ran out then started using the spiral notebook. I have thought about getting a "real" logbook, but spiral notebooks are less than a dollar at wallys world.

I would not worry about your first log book. After a couple years you won't be showing your first one anyway.
 
If you want to switch logbooks, just start making all your new flights in your new logbook and keep the old. It's that simple.
 
No one is going to care about a messy student pilot logbook, we've all been there. Copying flights over years later will raise more suspicion than anything else. Just start logging flights in your new logbook from where you left off.
 
Unregistered said:
My only concern with using an online program as my primary logbook, is in a face-to-face interview situation. I would imagine the interviewer would like to look at a hardcopy of your logbook, if nothing else but to judge record keeping and neatness. Perhaps this does not matter, but at my current job all of my logbook entries are scrutinized for cleanliness.

What online programs are everyone using? I am only aware of a couple.
Click to expand...

MyFlightBook rocks. And yes, you can print all your records to paper or PDF, and export them to excel.
 
Thanks for the ideas guys, I appreciate it. I think my questions have been answered.
 
jesse said:
If you want to switch logbooks, just start making all your new flights in your new logbook and keep the old. It's that simple.
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:yeahthat: It's not worth the effort. Just start fresh. Save the energy for getting those hours into a digital form as a backup, quick lookup tool, and easy time summary generation.
 
Nobody but you cares, so deal with it however. You can just start a different book and keep the old one stored, no need to move everything to the new book, just the column totals for the start.
 
Pedals2Paddles said:
MyFlightBook rocks. And yes, you can print all your records to paper or PDF, and export them to excel.
Click to expand...

+1 on the above. Easily totals everything and acts as my backup to the paper version.

As for your other quesiton, I'm in the school of just starting from where you are now in the new logbook and don't worry about copying everything else over...
 
LDJones said:
:yeahthat: It's not worth the effort. Just start fresh. Save the energy for getting those hours into a digital form as a backup, quick lookup tool, and easy time summary generation.
Click to expand...


Yup

Any employer knows the first log book is going to be messy, no worries.

Just carry your totals over to the new log.

As for digital, that's what I've been doing for years with a excel spreadsheet in google docs, it's great, backed up online and locally, secure, accessible anywhere, can't loose it, and I can even add pictures.

I add my flights from my phone or any other device that's online.

If I need to show it to someone for an interview I just print it up, sign on the little line on the bottom of each page, take it to the copy shop and have them bind it with a nice cover and all. The log can also be exported as a PDF in it's entirety, or a page range.

I still have my first logbook in a safe place, as well as scanned into one PDF of google docs too.

The digital logs have worked great for employers and check rides alike.


Again, just leave or old log book be, honestly you'll enjoy looking back at that mess after you have a few thousand hours.
 
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I suppose I will just finish out this vinyl logbook before I start with the new one. Should come pretty quickly, I'm hoping to knock out 200 hours next year, along with the commercial, instrument, and CFI in SEL.
 
Pedals2Paddles said:
MyFlightBook rocks. And yes, you can print all your records to paper or PDF, and export them to excel.
Click to expand...

I am backing this statement 1000%. I even donate to keep this guy going, even though it would kill me to spend money on the big name e-logbooks. The product speaks for itself, the guy behind the scenes is very quick to respond with any issues.
 
Unregistered said:
I suppose I will just finish out this vinyl logbook before I start with the new one. Should come pretty quickly, I'm hoping to knock out 200 hours next year, along with the commercial, instrument, and CFI in SEL.
Click to expand...

That is what pretty much everyone in the industry has done before you as well. Seriously, nobody cares about your log book, just the numbers on the last few pages. Unless you are being investigated, then having a chicken scratch logbook may be very beneficial:rofl:
 
And don't forget there is no real way anyone will ever check up on your logbook. Double up on everything.

;)
 
Well, unfortunately I am pursuing this the hard way. That's why it has taken so long and will continue to take time. Might have to start flying more just so I can move on to my new logbook, it looks so nice with the leather cover.

Another question if I may, does anyone care what kind of flight time you have when working towards an entry level gig?

I am about to start flying a couple of nice Aeronca Champ 7AC's this coming January, I already have a few hours logged. I'm also going to be piloting a nice Citabria 7GCBC, a handful of Cessna 172's, a Piper Cherokee 160, and a Piper Arrow. Possible a nice Piper Lance and Seneca II if I can ever get the funds together to get my multi.

I have previous experience in Hughes 269 helicopters, a couple hours in a Bell Jetranger, J3 Cub, Champ, Citabria, Kitfox, Cessna, Cherokee 180, ect. Time logged varies greatly, with most of my time being in helicopters, but I have really taken a love of tailwheel flight. Especially when you fly a tailwheel like a helicopter :)
 
Unregistered said:
Well, unfortunately I am pursuing this the hard way. That's why it has taken so long and will continue to take time, along with all my money. Might have to start flying more just so I can move on to my new logbook, it looks so nice with the leather cover.

Another question if I may? Does anyone care what kind of flight time you have when working towards an entry level gig?

I am about to start flying a couple of nice Aeronca Champ 7AC's this coming January, I already have a few hours logged. I'm also going to be piloting a nice Citabria 7GCBC, a handful of Cessna 172's, a Piper Cherokee 160, and a Piper Arrow. Possible a nice Piper Lance and Seneca II if I can ever get the funds together to get my multi.

I have previous experience in Hughes 269 helicopters, a couple hours in a Bell Jetranger, J3 Cub, Champ, Citabria, Kitfox, Cessna, Cherokee 180, ect. Time logged varies greatly, with most of my time being in helicopters, but I have really taken a love of tailwheel flight. Especially when you fly a tailwheel like a helicopter :)
Click to expand...

I am looking to become a full time CFI in the next couple years, and there is a nice glider school that stays very busy. They operate three nice Pawnee's that fly non stop Thursday - Sunday and I would like to work with them on the weekends. If neither of those options work out, does it matter what kind of flight time that's logged? I.e. any specific aircraft favored?
 
Depends on the entry level gig, some take multi time, some take tail wheel time, some want bush time, some don't care at all.
 
Unregistered said:
Hey everyone, posting this here because frankly, I do not know where else to post it. I am still a fairly new pilot, 200 hours total time (mostly helicopter and tailwheel asel). My logbook has been in the hands of many instructors, and some of them insist that they themselves fill in the entry. Over the past couple of years my logbook (brief as it may be) has become rather messy and crowded, mostly due to instructors, but I have made mistakes as well. I have also flown many types of aircraft and the logbook was just too small to record it all.
Click to expand...
Sounds a lot like my logbooks.
My girlfriend just bought me a nice Jeppesen Professional Logbook and a nice leather cover because I do intend on making aviation my career. I would like to transfer my time from my previous logbook (cheap vinyl starter logbook) into my new logbook, but I have questions.

For starters, I understand that a logbook is to be treated as a legal document, and should never be messy in the first place,
Click to expand...
I wouldn't say that, but I would say that any corrections should be made IAW accepted legal document standards, i.e., line-through the erroneous data leaving it legible and the correction made above with initials and date. No white-out, no eradication, no erasures, no blacking-out.

I have learned my lesson, and I no longer allow instructors to touch my logbook other than a signature.
Click to expand...
You'd have a problem with me as your instructor unless you're willing to take dictation and enter it exactly as I say before I sign it.

As I prepare for my instrument, commercial, and CFI, I would like to have a nice logbook to present to employers. Can I do this? I understand my original vinyl logbook has all of my official endorsements, but can I not just transfer them to the new log (minus signatures)??
Click to expand...
You can hand-copy anything you like into your new log, but it has no legal value without the original signatures. So, you'll need to have your original log available for FAA or other official requirements.

It's not like I never received the training, I am simply making a well presented backup and I intend on storing my original logbook is a very safe place, as well as online. Could I contact my CFI's and get them to endorse the copies?
Click to expand...
Sure, if you can find them and get your logbook to them to sign.

I just don't know what I can/should do, vs. what an employer might think and I am very hesitant to copy and endorsement at this point. Any help is greatly appreciated.
Click to expand...
Humans being what we are, if someone presented to me a perfectly neat logbook with all the entries in one handwriting/ink and no corrections of any kind, I'd be thinking it was probably a work of fiction.
 
Save the anal retentiveness for maneuvers and instrument approaches.

Take your old logbook and draw a diagonal line on every unused page, so you never reuse it and make a bigger mess.

Bring your totals forward, start the new logbook, store the old for its tailwheel endorsement and flight review, and be done. Make backup copies of endorsements and store separately.
 
Unregistered said:
Well, unfortunately I am pursuing this the hard way. That's why it has taken so long and will continue to take time. Might have to start flying more just so I can move on to my new logbook, it looks so nice with the leather cover.

Another question if I may, does anyone care what kind of flight time you have when working towards an entry level gig?

I am about to start flying a couple of nice Aeronca Champ 7AC's this coming January, I already have a few hours logged. I'm also going to be piloting a nice Citabria 7GCBC, a handful of Cessna 172's, a Piper Cherokee 160, and a Piper Arrow. Possible a nice Piper Lance and Seneca II if I can ever get the funds together to get my multi.

I have previous experience in Hughes 269 helicopters, a couple hours in a Bell Jetranger, J3 Cub, Champ, Citabria, Kitfox, Cessna, Cherokee 180, ect. Time logged varies greatly, with most of my time being in helicopters, but I have really taken a love of tailwheel flight. Especially when you fly a tailwheel like a helicopter :)
Click to expand...

The insurance company is the one who hires you.
Big deals.
Tailwheel time
Multi time
Turbine time
Float time
Time in type (bigger stuff)
Cross country time
Night time
IMC time

Id say 172 or arrow time ranks at the very bottom, beneath glider time but above balloon time.

Id wager if you have time in all those tailwheel planes and you have time in the jetranger you know this.
 
James331 said:
The insurance company is the one who hires you.
Big deals.
Tailwheel time
Multi time
Turbine time
Float time
Time in type (bigger stuff)
Cross country time
Night time
IMC time

Id say 172 or arrow time ranks at the very bottom, beneath glider time but above balloon time.

Id wager if you have time in all those tailwheel planes and you have time in the jetranger you know this.
Click to expand...


Yea, I'm not a big fan of the 172, or the Piper 180 for that matter. I love flying the Champ and the Citabria. I also really enjoyed an hour in a Pitts S2C, very fine flying aircraft. So fast.
 
When my dad was interviewing with the airlines he had some red and and green writing in his logbook and got scolded by one of the interviewers.
 
I have some green, purple and pink pen in my first logbook. I don't think anyone has ever asked to see it on an interview, though.
 
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