Logbook question

Ron Levy said:
Where is it written that it is? OTOH, we know for sure that ink is OK because it has been accepted that way repeatedly by the FAA. While it's possible that some person in the FAA may accept pencil, we have no way of knowing for sure that all FAA offices and personnel will do so. Further, legal documents in an erasable form such as pencil are generally unacceptable to courts and other agencies as official records due to their frangibility and ease of alteration.

Like I said, put it in ink "...if you want to be sure the FAA will accept it." [emphasis added]
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You're really reaching this time Ron. :frown2:
 
Rotor&Wing said:
You're really reaching this time Ron. :frown2:
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Y'all have one Inspector from one FSDO in one Region who seems to be saying pencil is OK with him (but hasn't even exactly said that). OTOH, we know pen-and-ink is acceptable to any and every FAA office and official. Choose wisely.
 
Ron Levy said:
Y'all have one Inspector from one FSDO in one Region who seems to be saying pencil is OK with him (but hasn't even exactly said that). OTOH, we know pen-and-ink is acceptable to any and every FAA office and official. Choose wisely.
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You're making assumptions with no basis in fact to try to prove yet another inane posting.:rolleyes2:
 
I've seen plenty of pilots use pencil and I've never head of it being a problem. I wouldn't hesitate to write mine in pencil - I just never have them. Sometimes I wish it would have been pencil becaues it'd be way easier to fix a mistake late.r
 
I do my total lines in pencil, so if (make that when) I discover math errors I erase the totals and recalculate. What I usually hand the FSDO or DPE is a printout of the logbook (which has page references to the original page numbers to make them easier to find), and bring the logbook with as supporting evidence. The original line entries are in pen, however, because I'm pretty certain that's accepted!
 
Rotor&Wing said:
You're making assumptions with no basis in fact to try to prove yet another inane posting.:rolleyes2:
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OK, then why not just come out and say unequivocally that logging in pencil is "a manner acceptable to the Administrator" and put your name and badge number under it?
 
Ron Levy said:
OK, then why not just come out and say unequivocally that logging in pencil is "a manner acceptable to the Administrator" and put your name and badge number under it?
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First of all, Inspectors never sign documents using a "badge number".

Second of all, there is no need for any Inspector to make such a document since there is no prohibition in Guidance for the practice. :dunno:

You're reaching.:rolleyes2:
 
Rotor&Wing said:
First of all, Inspectors never sign documents using a "badge number".

Second of all, there is no need for any Inspector to make such a document since there is no prohibition in Guidance for the practice. :dunno:

You're reaching.:rolleyes2:
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Not to worry -- I think we all get the idea.
 
My logbook is my personal property.. not a legal document. I can write in it using whatever I want. I can keep my endorsements on whatever I want, but its convenient to keep them in the logbook. I could use a looseleaf binder for a logbook if I so chose. I can log back seat passenger time in it if I wanted. (not that it counts for future ratings). I choose to use ink for the entries, and pencil for the totals.

When I fill out a form for the FAA and sign it, thats a legal document.
 
Doggtyred said:
My logbook is my personal property.. not a legal document.
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Actually, it is a legal document required by Federal law (14 CFR 61.51). While you can put extraneous junk in it if you feel like it, the legally-required data must be entered "in a manner acceptable to the Administrator."
 
Ron Levy said:
Actually, it is a legal document required by Federal law (14 CFR 61.51). While you can put extraneous junk in it if you feel like it, the legally-required data must be entered "in a manner acceptable to the Administrator."
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..and it's a very good idea to mark the "extraneous junk" as "extraneous junk."

The "legal" nature of the documents comes into play in a bad way when the FAA has a reason to look at it and the "extraneous junk" was entered in such as way that it looks like it was meant to be counted as a real entry. Then 61.59 comes into play. IMO you're far better off with a logbook that you don't need to explain with, "oh yeah, but I wasn't going to count that one...."
 
midlifeflyer said:
..and it's a very good idea to mark the "extraneous junk" as "extraneous junk."

The "legal" nature of the documents comes into play in a bad way when the FAA has a reason to look at it and the "extraneous junk" was entered in such as way that it looks like it was meant to be counted as a real entry. Then 61.59 comes into play. IMO you're far better off with a logbook that you don't need to explain with, "oh yeah, but I wasn't going to count that one...."
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For my "extraneous junk" I just put stuff in the comments section and leave the hour columns zero. That makes it pretty obvious that it's not to be counted!
 
I suppose it's not the best solution, but I keep a looseleaf log in my airplane, that I fill out after every flight. When a sheet is full, I bring it home and enter it all into an Excel spreadsheet, so that come tax time or insurance renewal time, all I have to do is call up that year's spreadsheet and run the totals. So, my nice little black leatherette Official Pilot's gold-embossed Logbook has, for the last bunch of years now, only been used for endorsements and BFR and IPC signoffs. I so hope nobody's going to tell me I must copy it all over in another Official Pilot's Logbook... in black ink, yet.
 
If the FAA (or one of their designers, like a DPE) ever wants to see your "logbook," you may have to print out and sign what you've got in your computer. Other than that, it's up to you.
 
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