Logbook question, and first flight as a certified pilot!

jasc15

jasc15

Pre-takeoff checklist
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Joe
Two questions, actually:

1. Now that I have my PP cert, do I enter all time as solo??

2. Mainly trivial, but what do I enter in the comments line? Sightseeing?

I had my first flight since my checkride and brought along my mother and girlfriend. I had already taken the rest of my family during my training, but mom was the last holdout. She mentioned that she saw "Visions of Long Island" on PBS a few days earlier (which, for those that don't know is an aerial sightseeing tour of various locations), so I did my own version.

During pre-flight I felt almost as nervous as I did during pre-flight of my checkride. I suppose the reality had set in of having other lives in my hands without an instructor to save the day. It was also fairly windy (something like 32015G20KT), but nothing I hadn't flown in before.

I had no destination, since I only decided about a half hour before that we would go, so I just flew along the south shore at 1500'. I turned back, then crossed the island to the north shore and tooled around the LI Sound a bit before heading in. The wind hadn't let up since i departed, but fortunately there was no crosswind, only a 17-ish KT headwind which made for a nice slow touchdown. Perfect to impress my first passengers with such a smooth landing.

Now I need to round up the rest of my friends who agreed months ago to come up with me :D
 
Congratulations!

I log time as "solo" when I'm the only person in the airplane.

CFR 61.51

(d) Logging of solo flight time. Except for a student pilot performing the duties of pilot in command of an airship requiring more than one pilot flight crewmember, a pilot may log as solo flight time only that flight time when the pilot is the sole occupant of the aircraft.
 
Congratulations! Solo time is only that quiet time when only you and the airplane are together without passengers.

Comments can be anything that is significant to you such as "Took Mom and Honey around Long Island just like the PBS show." I have such things as "Landed with 30* 12 kt crosswind." "Had lunch at oceanside restaurant." "Lost alternator, landed NORDO at ___."
 
jasc15 said:
1. Now that I have my PP cert, do I enter all time as solo??
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As Dan said, you only log time in the "solo" column when you are the sole, living, human occupant of the aircraft. You still log solo when flying with a dog or a corpse, but not with a post-natal baby. The big difference now is that you can log all the time you are flying a single-engine airplane as PIC time even when flying with an instructor.
2. Mainly trivial, but what do I enter in the comments line? Sightseeing?
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Pretty much anything you want, as well as any information necessary for FAA purposes, such as the name of the safety pilot when flying under the hood, or all the airports at which you landed on a cross-country flight.
 
dmccormack said:
Congratulations!

I log time as "solo" when I'm the only person in the airplane.

CFR 61.51

(d) Logging of solo flight time. Except for a student pilot performing the duties of pilot in command of an airship requiring more than one pilot flight crewmember, a pilot may log as solo flight time only that flight time when the pilot is the sole occupant of the aircraft.
Click to expand...

Help,.. what do I do??

Flights after my PP I logged PIC time each flight until recently when training for the tailwheel, which has been just Dual Received.

If I was with an instructor, I logged the Dual time received and PIC, since I was still PIC for the flight. (Checkouts, additional training/refreshers, etc) But without a CFI on board, even if I had a passenger, I had entered in the "Solo" column and PIC columns.

So what is the right way to correct the log-book? Can I cross it out with a single line and initial the change, siting this section, and retotal my column? :mad2:
 
dmccormack said:
Congratulations!

I log time as "solo" when I'm the only person in the airplane.

CFR 61.51

(d) Logging of solo flight time. Except for a student pilot performing the duties of pilot in command of an airship requiring more than one pilot flight crewmember, a pilot may log as solo flight time only that flight time when the pilot is the sole occupant of the aircraft.
Click to expand...


Whoah..awesome thread. Ive been logging my solo time, incorrectly.

*blink*

Not at all sure, how I missed that, but its gonna get corrected.
 
Rob Schaffer said:
If I was with an instructor, I logged the Dual time received and PIC, since I was still PIC for the flight. (Checkouts, additional training/refreshers, etc) But without a CFI on board, even if I had a passenger, I had entered in the "Solo" column and PIC columns.

So what is the right way to correct the log-book? Can I cross it out with a single line and initial the change, siting this section, and retotal my column? :mad2:
Click to expand...

Don't worry -- you're not the only one to log "solo time" as "the only pilot on board."

Quite frankly I think that's a more realistic definition, since you are It -- nobody else can help you.

Nevertheless, I would just make an adjustment to your total, and then mark the change on the next total page.

Still, there is no need to go back and white-out every single flight. In fact, your memory may have faded -- are you sure there was someone on board? :rolleyes:
 
And the concept of "solo time" is really only an issue when you are booking the time towards the commercial. For the most part, as I've been told by far too many CFIs/ATPs/FAA folks, it's irrelevant.
 
murphey said:
And the concept of "solo time" is really only an issue when you are booking the time towards the commercial. For the most part, as I've been told by far too many CFIs/ATPs/FAA folks, it's irrelevant.
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True, but you know how persnickety the FAA can get after a badness happens... :frown3:
 
Ron Levy said:
As Dan said, you only log time in the "solo" column when you are the sole, living, human occupant of the aircraft. You still log solo when flying with a dog or a corpse, but not with a post-natal baby. The big difference now is that you can log all the time you are flying a single-engine airplane as PIC time even when flying with an instructor.
Pretty much anything you want, as well as any information necessary for FAA purposes, such as the name of the safety pilot when flying under the hood, or all the airports at which you landed on a cross-country flight.
Click to expand...

Try to avoid entries like "Had prop strike and go around after forgetting to extend gear. Met nice FAA inspector who'd been watching from the restaurant. And GEE, he said he'd introduce me to some more nice FAA folks and let me show them how I fly the plane!"
 
TMetzinger said:
Try to avoid entries like "Had prop strike and go around after forgetting to extend gear. Met nice FAA inspector who'd been watching from the restaurant. And GEE, he said he'd introduce me to some more nice FAA folks and let me show them how I fly the plane!"
Click to expand...

Great! Now I gotta go get some white-out - sheese.... :nono:
 
dmccormack said:
Quite frankly I think that's a more realistic definition, since you are It -- nobody else can help you.
Click to expand...
Good cockpit resource management includes effective use of even nonpilots in the right seat. Typical nonpilot tasks include spotting other aircraft, helping with maps and charts, reaching for things you need in the back, etc. Thus, flying with nonpilots really can be easier than flying solo.
Still, there is no need to go back and white-out every single flight.
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Using white-out in your logbook is, as with any other legal document, inappropriate. Line through the incorrect entry (leaving the original entry legible), write the new data above it, and initial/date the change.
 
dmccormack said:
True, but you know how persnickety the FAA can get after a badness happens... :frown3:
Click to expand...
It's more an issue at certificate application time. Having time in the solo column but notes in the Remarks column indicating the presence of others is a good way for a commercial practical test to end before it starts.
 
Ron Levy said:
Good cockpit resource management includes effective use of even nonpilots in the right seat. Typical nonpilot tasks include spotting other aircraft, helping with maps and charts, reaching for things you need in the back, etc. Thus, flying with nonpilots really can be easier than flying solo.
Click to expand...

Yeah, we know -- but you're still the only pilot on board, and in some cases pax can make a flight more difficult than "solo."
 
my logbook has one slot titled SOLO/PIC ..... uhhh ohhh
 
Rob Schaffer said:
Help,.. what do I do??

Flights after my PP I logged PIC time each flight until recently when training for the tailwheel, which has been just Dual Received.
Click to expand...

Why are you only logging dual received in a tailwheel? Is it a multiengine, and you are only single engine rated or what? Just curious as to why you aren't logging PIC time.
 
KSCessnaDriver said:
Why are you only logging dual received in a tailwheel? Is it a multiengine, and you are only single engine rated or what? Just curious as to why you aren't logging PIC time.
Click to expand...

I brought this up with the instructor the other day, and i had a thread here on it too. While it is ASEL, and it seems I should be able to from the FAR definition of PIC, the local FSDO said otherwise to him.

I showed him EdFred's PIC chart and we read the FAR's, and he just fell back on that's what the FSDO stated. Seems like I am 'sole manipulator' for a majority of some flights now, have a current medical, and am ASEL-PP Rated, so I thought I could get at least a portion of the total dual time as PIC time.

But, if I wanted to be a safety pilot in a tailwheel plane right now, the FAR specifically states that you have to have the endorsement to ACT as PIC. I think this is where the FSDO is holding the training PIC time hostage. Circles back to the LOG PIC and ACT PIC.

So, for now, Its his signature in my book on each line, so what he was told goes. I'm only a lesson or two away from the endorsement anyway, then I'll be able to log PIC for spin training :yesnod:

---- sorry to hijack thread,,... back to topic--------

I understand the "don't use white out" reason, that's why I suggested single cross and initial. that's what we have to do for our engineering calcs so I'm used to it. I went through my log, looks like about 3 lines per page or so since I had my PP, so I'll go back and edit and recalc the page, noting the change on each sheet.
 
Ron Levy said:
Typical nonpilot tasks include spotting other aircraft, helping with maps and charts, reaching for things you need in the back, etc. Thus, flying with nonpilots really can be easier than flying solo.
Click to expand...
True story. I had my gf fold my chart to the panel i wanted, since i was having a hard time doing it with one hand. I should teach her to work the radios next time.:yesnod: Good discussion here; I figured it was a simple open and shut case.
 
Rob Schaffer said:
I brought this up with the instructor the other day, and i had a thread here on it too. While it is ASEL, and it seems I should be able to from the FAR definition of PIC, the local FSDO said otherwise to him.

I showed him EdFred's PIC chart and we read the FAR's, and he just fell back on that's what the FSDO stated. Seems like I am 'sole manipulator' for a majority of some flights now, have a current medical, and am ASEL-PP Rated, so I thought I could get at least a portion of the total dual time as PIC time.

But, if I wanted to be a safety pilot in a tailwheel plane right now, the FAR specifically states that you have to have the endorsement to ACT as PIC. I think this is where the FSDO is holding the training PIC time hostage. Circles back to the LOG PIC and ACT PIC.

So, for now, Its his signature in my book on each line, so what he was told goes. I'm only a lesson or two away from the endorsement anyway, then I'll be able to log PIC for spin training :yesnod:

---- sorry to hijack thread,,... back to topic--------

I understand the "don't use white out" reason, that's why I suggested single cross and initial. that's what we have to do for our engineering calcs so I'm used to it. I went through my log, looks like about 3 lines per page or so since I had my PP, so I'll go back and edit and recalc the page, noting the change on each sheet.
Click to expand...

Well it's your logbook. What I'd do is not total up the PIC column yet, and once you're done, go back and log the PIC time. Your FSDO is flat wrong on that.
 
TMetzinger said:
Well it's your logbook. What I'd do is not total up the PIC column yet, and once you're done, go back and log the PIC time. Your FSDO is flat wrong on that.
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Heck, I make a point to not total up the columns in ink anyway, specifically for this sort of reason (or because I may realize later that some of the entries were miscategorized.) I do make the original entries in pen, and initial any deletions or modifications to an instructor's line.
 
Rob Schaffer said:
I brought this up with the instructor the other day, and i had a thread here on it too. While it is ASEL, and it seems I should be able to from the FAR definition of PIC, the local FSDO said otherwise to him.
Click to expand...
Local FSDO's don't have the authority to overrule the interpretations of the FAA Chief Counsel. Suggest to them (very politely) that they check with HQ before giving out such incorrect interpretations. And for your edification, know that your analysis is 100% in line with the Chief Counsel's.

So, for now, Its his signature in my book on each line, so what he was told goes.
Click to expand...
Bullhockey. It's your log, and your responsibility if it isn't right. All your instructor is signing for is the training s/he gave you; everything else goes over your signature and is your responsibility.
 
SkyHog said:
I don't log Solo time. Much easier.
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Until you decide to go for that Commercial rating just for the heck of it. Then you find yourself having to go back and categorize all that old post-solo flight time. :mad2:
 
gprellwitz said:
Until you decide to go for that Commercial rating just for the heck of it. Then you find yourself having to go back and categorize all that old post-solo flight time. :mad2:
Click to expand...

At this point, I have pretty much everything I need logged for any rating (except ATP) I want to get.

Flying lots of solo cross countries right after getting my cert was a good idea :D
 
Superpilot61 said:
my logbook has one slot titled SOLO/PIC ..... uhhh ohhh
Click to expand...
So does mine, sort of: it says "PIC (incl solo)", and there's no separate columns for "solo" or "PIC". It was explained to me years ago that this would be OK, even if I were to try to get some kind of flying work with this logbook, despite the apparent confusion between entries for pre-checkride solo, acting PIC with pax, acting PIC alone, and rated non-acting PIC as "sole manipulator".

It wouldn't be that difficult to determine which is which, as I always note any pax in the remarks column, and I can easily spot the "sole manipulator" entries by the aircraft type. As for the pre-check ride solo stuff, those are also pretty obvious.

It might seem more confusing at first glance, but with only the one column for "everything except dual", there's no room for any "dubious" entries (in terms of solo or PIC status).
 
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Superpilot61 said:
my logbook has one slot titled SOLO/PIC ..... uhhh ohhh
Click to expand...

rottydaddy said:
So does mine, sort of: it says "PIC (incl solo)", and there's no separate columns for "solo" or "PIC".
Click to expand...

We must have the same Jepp logbook.

But, like others, I do put pax names in the comments. I guess I could go through and either circle or asterisk the log entries that were specifically solo. That's what I do with night takeoffs and landings, since I don't have a separate log column for those, either. Makes it easier to go back later and find them.
 
Another point on this discussion is to keep two logs of flying time...
One is the official log and the other is your 'day book'... You will find that many CFI do just that...

My official log is as sanitized as humanly possible... Because I am no longer renting, or looking for new endorsements, my official log is filled in quarterly increments...
One single line of the log shows the totals for that quarter, SOLO PIC (always in my case), day, night, single, multi, number of TOL, and total time...

The day book contains the daily log with each flight, and the time, and whether I added oil to the left engine etc., comments about who was with me, the photos we took, where we ate... The wife has strict instructions that if anything ever happens ONLY the official log is turned over to the authorities...

denny-o
Paranoid? Who me? ( R.A. Hoover)
 
" Mainly trivial, but what do I enter in the comments line? Sightseeing?"

Joe,
Remember that the lines are just there to keep the writing from getting messy - you can actually write on several lines for one flight if there is a lot you want to say about it. When you are old and sitting on the porch rocking and remembeingr the good ol' days you can go back and say "yep, looky, here, that day it was storming to beat the band, and we had to go over to ****, met a nice bunch of folks and stayed in this interesting little motel w/ that pretty little gal up at the desk...I eventually married her" :D
My husband is an old fart pilot and I've read his log books - good memories there.
My log book has some places where I've written on several lines for various reasons.
It's your log book - you can do what you want - even use different colored ink for different types of flight or whatever. Like they said earlier, just keep the legal currency stuff clear.
Have fun!
 
"And the way one can fly a plane without manipulating the controls is...?"

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
while running on an elliptical listening to music and imagining loops and rolls and spins :D
Oh, oops, that's for the aerobatic forum and it can't be logged-
Nevermind.......:crazy:
 
dmccormack said:
George flies.

Pilot's arms are folded while looking out the window.
Click to expand...
Well, if you want to quibble, the FAA already addressed that one in a legal interpretation -- flying by autopilot is considered flying the plane for logging purposes, and I never heard anyone say they were "flying the plane" when they weren't doing even that.
 
Ah, but what if the person that activated the autopilot then jumped out of the plane with a parachute and leaves me at the controls? Who is flying the plane then? I never did anything.
 
EdFred said:
Ah, but what if the person that activated the autopilot then jumped out of the plane with a parachute and leaves me at the controls?
Click to expand...
After the discussion with you about obeying ATC instructions, I can understand why someone would do that with you in the plane. Especially if you started singing like Ethel Merman.:D
 
Ron Levy said:
Well, if you want to quibble, the FAA already addressed that one in a legal interpretation -- flying by autopilot is considered flying the plane for logging purposes, and I never heard anyone say they were "flying the plane" when they weren't doing even that.
Click to expand...

Yeah, i know -- but you asked how one could "fly" without "manipulating."
 
dmccormack said:
Yeah, i know -- but you asked how one could "fly" without "manipulating."
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Unless your definition of "flying the airplane" does not involve the manipulation of the controls via either the stick/yoke or the autopilot, I don't see how you can, but since that term isn't FAA-defined, I suppose one can come up with their own definition of the term, although I'd like to hear one that doesn't involve control manipulation by some means.
 
Ron Levy said:
Unless your definition of "flying the airplane" does not involve the manipulation of the controls via either the stick/yoke or the autopilot, I don't see how you can, but since that term isn't FAA-defined, I suppose one can come up with their own definition of the term, although I'd like to hear one that doesn't involve control manipulation by some means.
Click to expand...

My head hurts -- so I guess you just won the award for the most convoluted sentence posted today anywhere on the World Wide Web.

Congratulations! :smile:
 
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