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Don't know what she will do since Charles is dead now. Seems like she needed someone to lead her back in '69.
 
Practical question: What will she live on? It's not like 73 year old felons are super hireable. And she can't collect social security because she didn't work enough to pay into the system and qualify.
 
Zeldman said:
Don't know what she will do since Charles is dead now. Seems like she needed someone to lead her back in '69.
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now I don't condone murder because, well, murder is bad and all, but how crazy would it be if she turns around and stabs some poor soul and writes some crazy #$%^ in blood on the wall just to stick it to society and the man......who'da saw that one coming?
 
If she does something outrageous I totally would not be surprised. Some of these people really just should have been publicly executed to save the taxpayers money. There is no value in letting someone like this free at her age after her history.

Oh by the way, did I mention that I don't believe in moral rehabilitation?
 
ArrowFlyer86 said:
If she does something outrageous I totally would not be surprised. Some of these people really just should have been publicly executed to save the taxpayers money. There is no value in letting someone like this free at her age after her history.

Oh by the way, did I mention that I don't believe in moral rehabilitation?
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The death penalty costs a lot more (10x more is the commonly cited number) than life in prison because of the cost of trying to get it right (and the US fails to get it right somewhere between 5-10% of the time.

As for moral rehabilitation. Dang. That's a dark world view. Of course tons of people can be rehabilitated. And of course tons of people have mental illness as a primary driver for their crime(s). In the latter case, simply getting them the correct medication can cure their supposed moral failing.
 
Yeah the economics don't support death penalty, but that's only because of a completely out of whack legal system. I think our prosecution/investigative quality is much better than it was in the olden days, but I agree that sending the wrong person to the electric chair is a pretty severe case of Type 1 error. I'm not worried about that error with her.
As for moral rehabilitation, there's limits IMHO based on your crime. Given what she's guilty of, mental illness or not, KCN would be the only medicine I think she should get.
 
172andyou said:
The death penalty costs a lot more (10x more is the commonly cited number) than life in prison because of the cost of trying to get it right (and the US fails to get it right somewhere between 5-10% of the time.
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Maybe it's callous, but I really don't understand why the death penalty has to be so expensive. A well-placed bullet would be extremely effective and quick. And even a really, really good bullet is less than $10.
 
There's already enshrined in a folder in Washington DC of a study in black and white of my fingerprints.

Amusingly, when I was running academic computing for Rutgers University, I came back from lunch one day to my secretary in a tizzy. The Berkeley Heights police had called and wanted to talk to me very badly.

Police: Did you purchase some wire from the BerkTek wire and cable company?
Me: I probably did. I am responsible for all the wiring on the seven campuses.
Police: And what do you do with the spools when you are done with them?
Me: Well, we usually leave them on the loading dock and the students take them and use them for dorm furniture. Why?
Police: Son, we found a spool with your name on it in the middle of our town.

at this point I've got this on the speaker phone in my office and the other people listening are rolling on the floor. I was sorely inclined to respond:

Me: I can not tell a lie, officer Obie. I drove over to your town to put that spool there.
But I was afraid he'd put me in a cell and take away my wallet (so I wouldn't have any money to spend in the cell) and my belt (so there wouldn't be a hangin') or the toilet seat (so I couldn't hit myself over the head and drown) or the toilet paper (so I couldn't roll the toilet paper out the window, slide down the roll and have an escape).
 
SkyChaser said:
Maybe it's callous, but I really don't understand why the death penalty has to be so expensive. A well-placed bullet would be extremely effective and quick. And even a really, really good bullet is less than $10.
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Being logical is often confused for being calloused :)
If our country had a collective conscience we could mop many of these egregious cases up for less than a dollar each. It doesn't have to be complicated and drawn out. Iran hangs people, Saudis behead them. They may be backwards countries in many ways, but when it comes to this they're not worried about making it neat or painless. KSA has a homicide rate about 1/7 of ours, and Iran less than 1/3.
Us? Instead we spend over a million dollars defending them for decades, and then glamorize them with docu-dramas to document their heinous actions, which then become #1 shows on netflix. Or our online internet culture encourages people to livestream their shootings for clicks.
All is not well in America.
 
SkyChaser said:
Maybe it's callous, but I really don't understand why the death penalty has to be so expensive. A well-placed bullet would be extremely effective and quick. And even a really, really good bullet is less than $10.
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the actual execution isn't particularly expensive... it's making sure that the person convicted is actually guilty.

We can debate how many innocent people are falsely convicted. I don't think there is any question that the number is not zero.
 
SkyChaser said:
Maybe it's callous, but I really don't understand why the death penalty has to be so expensive. A well-placed bullet would be extremely effective and quick. And even a really, really good bullet is less than $10.
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I don't understand why they swab the arm with alcohol before giving the lethal injection.
 
172andyou said:
Practical question: What will she live on? It's not like 73 year old felons are super hireable. And she can't collect social security because she didn't work enough to pay into the system and qualify.
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Write a book?
 
SkyChaser said:
Maybe it's callous, but I really don't understand why the death penalty has to be so expensive. A well-placed bullet would be extremely effective and quick. And even a really, really good bullet is less than $10.
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yeah, I'd agree it's probably callous to think, "and if we get it wrong, so what?"

It's attempting to avoid the need to say "so what" that makes it expensive. If you don't care about that, it's cheap. No evidence, no proof, no trial, no nothing. Just a $10 bullet.
 
midlifeflyer said:
yeah, I'd agree it's probably callous to think, "and if we get it wrong, so what?"

It's attempting to avoid the need to say "so what" that makes it expensive. If you don't care about that, it's cheap. No evidence, no proof, no trial, no nothing. Just a $10 bullet.
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Like with almost everything else, I think the real answer falls between those two extremes. There is a whole lot of territory between a bullet and a lifetime of incarceration and legal expenses. I have no idea how much in total we spend on implementing, or avoiding the death penalty, but like people say with so many other things, like space exploration, couldn't we spend that money on something more productive and that will save even more lives?
 
ArrowFlyer86 said:
Being logical is often confused for being calloused
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Nah. Logic and being calloused are different things. It's logical not to spend 10x as much on death penalty cases, where the government gets things wrong 5-10% of the time. It's calloused, and illogical, to not care about the fact that innocent people are put to death by the government. I've never understood that. Tens of millions of people demand that the 2nd amendment be viewed as an individual right because they don't trust the government *and* many of those same people trust the government to fairly and accurately administer the death penalty. Makes no logical sense at all.

ArrowFlyer86 said:
Iran hangs people, Saudis behead them. They may be backwards countries in many ways, but when it comes to this they're not worried about making it neat or painless. KSA has a homicide rate about 1/7 of ours, and Iran less than 1/3.
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The UK doesn't have the death penalty and has a homicide rate 1/4 of the US. Poland doesn't have the death penalty and has a homicide rate 15% of the US. Norway doesn't have the death penalty and has a homicide rate one tenth of the US. Germany doesn't have the death penalty and has a homicide rate a quarter the US. The death penalty has nothing to do with deterring crime, it has to do with vengeance. Some people support it on that basis. I don't. But let's at least be logical and admit that the data shows that deterrence isn't happening and that the real motivation is vengeance.
 
people, people.........HELTER SKELTER. take the gun talk somewhere else please.
 
ArrowFlyer86 said:
Yeah the economics don't support death penalty, but that's only because of a completely out of whack legal system. I think our prosecution/investigative quality is much better than it was in the olden days, but I agree that sending the wrong person to the electric chair is a pretty severe case of Type 1 error. I'm not worried about that error with her.
As for moral rehabilitation, there's limits IMHO based on your crime. Given what she's guilty of, mental illness or not, KCN would be the only medicine I think she should get.
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Ultimately, if a jury is not comfortable giving someone the death penalty, then that defendant should be set free.
 
Kenny Phillips said:
Ultimately, if a jury is not comfortable giving someone the death penalty, then that defendant should be set free.
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I vehemently disagree with this. Why the hell would you let someone free once convicted, but spared the death penalty? I would hope that a jury is (almost) never comfortable with giving the death penalty.
 
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