Local tower procedures

upstateny

upstateny

Line Up and Wait
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Apr 8, 2011
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Now in SW Florida
Background: Trained at a non-towered airport where we self-announced all around the pattern.

Question: Are there "local" procedures at towered airports?

Situation: Flying at a new (to me) towered airport. Previously at other towered fields, if I was doing touch and goes, the tower expected me to fly the pattern (left or right) and called me during the downwind to give me clearance to land (or option). Today, they were pi**ed that I didn't call mid-field downwind. Is there a standard or are we left to discover the way the locals would like us to do?
 
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No standard, unless they have something published in the chart supplement (very doubtful).

If they didn't tell you to report midfield downwind, they were wrong for being ticked off. I've had pilots report any of the legs of a pattern before and sometimes had them not report anything. Cleared aircraft to land from all points in and out of the pattern as well...even when not in sight. :eek:
 
Welll back when I was, oh never mind, Velocity answered you. :(
 
Local procedures are sort of a non-issue at a towered airport, as current ATIS and tower instructions will dictate how you enter the pattern.
 
Sac Arrow said:
Local procedures are sort of a non-issue at a towered airport, as current ATIS and tower instructions will dictate how you enter the pattern.
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Not ENTERING the pattern - IN the pattern. Is there a standard procedure for reporting your position at a towered airport?
 
upstateny said:
Not ENTERING the pattern - IN the pattern. Is there a standard procedure for reporting your position at a towered airport?
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I had 'em call base, military and civilian, if I needed them to.
 
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upstateny said:
OK If "told" to report, how do we know a tower "expects" you to report?
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If a controller told you to report base, they expect you to call base. If the controller told you to report downwind, you'd call somewhere on downwind.
 
mscard88 said:
If a controller told you to report base, they expect you to call base. If the controller told you to report downwind, you'd call somewhere on downwind.
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To restate - I was not told to report anything. They got pi**ed with me when I didn't report mid-field downwind after I told them I was doing some touch-and-goes. I flew the pattern they told me to.
 
upstateny said:
OK If "told" to report, how do we know a tower "expects" you to report?
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Because they told you to report a specific leg in the pattern.

It's common with closed traffic approval. "Cessna 345, left closed traffic approved, report all downwinds."
So, you report downwind each time. No Instruction to report, then you don't report anything.
 
upstateny said:
To restate - I was not told to report anything. They got pi**ed with me when I didn't report mid-field downwind after I told them I was doing some touch-and-goes. I flew the pattern they told me to.
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Then you did nothing wrong. The tower had no reason to get p***ed off.

Don't make it anymore difficult than it should be. If the tower tells you to report at specific point then do so, if not, than just fly your pattern and expect a clearance (to land or for the option). The tower will tell you what to do if they need it.
 
upstateny said:
To restate - I was not told to report anything. They got pi**ed with me when I didn't report mid-field downwind after I told them I was doing some touch-and-goes. I flew the pattern they told me to.
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Well, maybe they didn't get laid the previous night or someone peed in their Wheaties. Controller should tell you where to report. If they don't, ask if they want you to call base, but that's not your responsibility, it's on the controller to tell you. Think the controller was just being a prick. It happens, they have bad days too.
 
Sorry, typo.
If NOT told to report, how do we know a tower expects you to report.
 
upstateny said:
Question: Are there "local" procedures at towered airports?
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There shouldn't be any local procedures (unless spelled out on the ATIS or applicable publications) but sometimes they do develop.

If a controller wants you to report something then they have to tell you to report it. If I controller wants a mid-field report each time around he should give an instruction such as, "make left closed traffic, report midfield downwind each pass." If they forget, it's their problem, not yours. If, at any time, you are unsure of who to follow or what is expected of you ask for clarification.

Call the facility. They'll review the tape and discuss any errors made by either you or the controller with you.
 
upstateny said:
OK, that makes sense.
(But it was very crowded with bug smashers and Allegiant added to the mix.)
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Yeah that happens when it's busy, hard to get a word in sometimes. Often the tower will just clear you for whatever too, so in that case you don't need to call. Example say you're on downwind and tower says "cleared for T&G", you acknowledge it and then do your T&G without any further calls..
 
upstateny said:
Sorry, typo.
If NOT told to report, how do we know a tower expects you to report.
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Really? You can't read their minds. If they don't tell you to report then don't. They will get back with you, typically on downwind or base without you having to say anything.
 
upstateny said:
Sorry, typo.
If NOT told to report, how do we know a tower expects you to report.
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Lol! You don't know what tower expects you to report, because they haven't told you to report anything...so don't report anything.

Having you report, is like a crutch. You do it so you don't lose track of your traffic. Generally downwind is a good spot because it allows the controller to direct attention back to you so you don't cut someone off on final.

Brings up another misconception I've read on POA before. No requirement to get a clearance on downwind prior to base or any requirement to have permission to turn base.
 
Velocity173 said:
Lol! You don't know what tower expects you to report, because they haven't told you to report anything...so don't report anything.

Having you report, is like a crutch. You do it so you don't lose track of your traffic. Generally downwind is a good spot because it allows the controller to direct attention back to you so you don't cut someone off on final.

Brings up another misconception I've read on POA before. No requirement to get a clearance on downwind prior to base or any requirement to have permission to turn base.
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So... getting back to original question, there are "quirks" at each towered airport we need to learn.
 
upstateny said:
So... getting back to original question, there are "quirks" at each towered airport we need to learn.
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Not really, they all operate by the same rule book. It would be rather impossible to learn the "quirks" at every towered field we plan to visit beforehand.
 
Larry in TN said:
There shouldn't be any local procedures (unless spelled out on the ATIS or applicable publications) but sometimes they do develop.

Call the facility. They'll review the tape and discuss any errors made by either you or the controller with you.
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Or pull the recording from liveatc.com's archives and listen to the exchange yourself. Maybe you'll hear the "report midfield" statement from the controller. If it was the second or third touch and go, maybe they told it to you the first time and expected you to remember for subsequent touch and goes.
 
Justin M said:
Or pull the recording from liveatc.com's archives and listen to the exchange yourself. Maybe you'll hear the "report midfield" statement from the controller. If it was the second or third touch and go, maybe they told it to you the first time and expected you to remember for subsequent touch and goes.
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Did that before I started this thread. No joy.
Let's put this to bed. Thanks for the input.
 
Oh no! Pull the tapes. Sounds like a pilot deviation now. :D
 
upstateny said:
Did that before I started this thread. No joy.
Let's put this to bed. Thanks for the input.
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What they do at the class D I fly out of is, they call me on downwind to either give me my landing/option clearance or other instructions(extend, etc). My instructor told me that if they don't call me by mid-field on downwind then call them to report downwind(remind them you're here and need clearance to land). I have rarely had to do that, usually i'll get ready to push transmit and before I can push the button I get, 'cleared for the option' or whatever(extend downwind we'll call your base).

Where were you when they got upset? How far towards landing would you go without a 'cleared to land'? Base? Final? Sounds like they just got behind?
 
The only time you're required to report downwind or base or anything else is if you're asked to do so. Contrary to popular belief it is perfectly acceptable to turn base and final in the absence of a landing clearance, as the clearance has nothing to do with the base or final turn authorization.

I'll make the final turn before I ask for a landing clearance.
 
Funny thing happened at my home airport during my insurance checkout. The CFI I was with doesn't normally fly the pattern at my airport, so both the controller and I were confused when he kept calling midfield downwind. The controller will typically issue landing clearance while downwind, but nobody self announces at my airport.

If they don't issue that instruction, you can't be in the wrong for not following it. We can't be held responsible for every local custom... otherwise we'd be getting fanged constantly.
 
upstateny said:
That's the question. How do we know when we're expected to report?
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The automatic reporting of downwind has become so routine at so many towered controlled airports that many controllers have come to believe that it is a mandatory report. It is not. Best advice I could give you is, until you've learned what the "tribal knowledge" is at an airport, is go ahead and report it. You may get snarled at, at some of the busier airports where frequency congestion is an issue. Good judgment dictates that you should get their attention before turning base if you haven't been given a sequence and/or landing clearance yet.
 
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File a NASA report.

You didn't violate anything, but the reporting system is designed to collect data to enhance safety. The get-out-of-jail-free benefit is merely there to motivate people to use it.
 
The controller probably got busy, thought (s)he gave an instruction to report, and then didn't actually do it.

It happens. I'd assume that before thinking it was some mystery local procedure.

If I was bored and wanted to know what really happened, I'd just give them a ring on the cell phone once on the ground. They don't bite.

Well there's probably a few kinky ones, but the majority don't. :)

I also stopped worrying too much about them sounding "angry". Half the time they're not angry at you, they're just angry at whatever's going on.

In this particular case, I'd probably just say, "Roger. We never heard any request to report midfield. Cessna 345." And leave it at that. It's enough of a hint without accusing -- you didn't HEAR it, doesn't mean they didn't TRANSMIT it, even if you know they didn't, and it's over with right there. If they're grumpy because they forgot, it's still gives them something to hang their grumpy hat on... must have been blocked... did I get an acknowledgement from that guy on the request to report...? Etc.

A flat non-emotional statement and continuing on like nothing happened usually works the best with a controller goof up, IMHO.
 
Denverpilot to me makes the most sense to resolve it.
Give them a call and just ask what the situation is at that airport and hear what they have to say about it?
 
upstateny said:
To restate - I was not told to report anything. They got pi**ed with me when I didn't report mid-field downwind after I told them I was doing some touch-and-goes. I flew the pattern they told me to.
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I think you're reading too much into this.

Tower is staffed by humans and they F up every once in a while.

You'll catch more errors as time goes on.

Just two weeks ago, Oakland Ground told me to give way to a 172 that was behind me and in the middle of a run up.
 
upstateny said:
Not ENTERING the pattern - IN the pattern. Is there a standard procedure for reporting your position at a towered airport?
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Not particularly. The controllers may have standard local reporting points, but if they want you to use them they will tell you. The only time I will give an unsolicited report is if I think they may have lost track of me as the result of traffic and some wonky routing. That doesn't happen often but it happens.

A funny thing happened to me on a flight in to KSAC. I arrived from the east, and the runway in use was 20. The tower detected some NORDO traffic inbound from the north, and assumed it was an aircraft inbound for 20 so they had me head to the UC Davis med center instead of having me set up for a left hand traffic pattern. UC Davis med center happens to line up with 20, just inside the delta. Finally I realized what was going on just before I reached the med center, and the NORDO traffic was in fact a medevac helicopter landing at the med center. I saw it far enough in advance that I didn't have to do any dramatic deviation to avoid it, but I let the tower know where I was and what was going on, informed them that I was turning final, and I think they then realized that they screwed up by routing me there in the first place.

I think in their mind, the NORDO traffic should have been well clear of the med center by the time I got there, but they didn't count on it being a landing helicopter.
 
I've experienced non-published "local procedures" at towered airports. The controllers seem aware of them and realize that not every pilot is familiar. In my experience, most of them involve taxiways or intersections - when 95% of the local pilots want a full length departure, the controllers generally issue taxi instructions for that departure without being prompted. A non-local pilot might or might not be expecting that. Or the controllers generally recognize the training aircraft N#s and will issue taxi instructions to the proper parking areas without being asked. A non-local pilot might end up being routed to a different area than expected because the controller might have forgot to ask and the pilot may not have requested quickly enough.

All the controllers I've worked with will revert to the "standard" procedures very quickly once they realize they aren't dealing with a local.

As for your comment about being scolded for not calling midfield downwind: I've always been asked to "report downwind", or "report 2 mile final", or something like that so they can work me in. That's generally done when you first get to the airport. During pattern work, just a quick "Cessna xxx left/right downwind Rxx" alerts the tower that you are ready for landing clearance (as long as they know you are doing pattern work, otherwise they might ask your intentions or similar). Some controllers, on a lazy day, may not have anything else going on so they are watching you and don't need that prompt. Other times, they have their attention on something else and need to hear that. But don't land unless you hear "Cleared".
 
Agreed that you can always call and talk to the supervisor.
If this is an ongoing "issue" with that particular controller, the supervisor might want to know and retrain them (and possibly tell them to start behaving like a professional).

We all are human, we all have some bad days. But there is no need to act like an a-hat just because. I've heard many over the years and never worried much. Again, we're all human.
 
It's just a conversation

Tell them what you want to do, they'll ask you to do/report XYZ, report or do XYZ, ask questions, or ask for changes as needed.

Don't over think it, and when in doubt ask, don't worry about not sounding official or any of that nonsense.
 
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