Living paycheck to paycheck on $150,000

One advantage to using the credit card is at the end of the year I can get my yearly statement, and see what I spent it on. I suppose I could do that with cash too by keeping every single receipt, but it's just easier to look at the end of the year statement and quickly see that I spent X on gas, Y on my house, Z for food, etc...

I give myself a $100 cash "allowance" for the month for lunches, snacks from the gas station etc...When that's gone, it's time to go home for lunch and make a sandwich or mac-n-cheese or something.
 
EdFred said:
One advantage to using the credit card is at the end of the year I can get my yearly statement, and see what I spent it on. I suppose I could do that with cash too by keeping every single receipt, but it's just easier to look at the end of the year statement and quickly see that I spent X on gas, Y on my house, Z for food, etc...

I give myself a $100 cash "allowance" for the month for lunches, snacks from the gas station etc...When that's gone, it's time to go home for lunch and make a sandwich or mac-n-cheese or something.
Click to expand...

I agree - I use the card for most purchases over $20, but there's a difference using a credit card and using "credit".
 
My father gave me sound advice when I struck out on my own. "Never use credit to buy an item that decreases in value over time." In other words, use credit to buy your house and that's about it.

It works for my family. YMMV.
 
bstratt said:
It bugs me when I see people charging their Starbuck's coffee, or a pizza slice (I kid you not!).
Click to expand...
I guess you've been in line after me. ;)

If the establishment takes credit cards I use one...
 
bstratt said:
As far as paying off debt - pay off the highest, non tax deductible, debt you have.
Click to expand...
Pay off the credit with highest INTEREST RATE first. Even if it is the smallest amount.

In fact, closing out a debt gives such a satisfying feeling, you can concentrate on closing out the smallest debts next after getting rid of the highest interest ones. And congratulate yourself every time you eliminate a debt.

Your home, car, and airplane are all acceptable mortgage items.
 
AuntPeggy said:
Pay off the credit with highest INTEREST RATE first. Even if it is the smallest amount.

In fact, closing out a debt gives such a satisfying feeling, you can concentrate on closing out the smallest debts next after getting rid of the highest interest ones. And congratulate yourself every time you eliminate a debt.

Your home, car, and airplane are all acceptable mortgage items.
Click to expand...

I stand corrected. That's what I meant to say (seniors moment). Probably need to say "EFFECTIVE interest rate" to compensate for tax deductibility.
 
Interesting.

I don't keep track of my money near as much as I should. But as of right now I am virtually debt free. I have a pretty small amount on a credit card but I basically pay that off every month and bring it back up to try to get some credit built up.

One of the things I've been *trying* to do is get some type of actual plan in place. Just haven't had the time lately.
 
Unless I missed it, I'm surprised no one mentioned living well below your means. I have not "upgraded" my lifestyle since I bought my airplane, even though my income is now at least 40% higher. The plane will probably be the last lifestyle upgrade I will make. I'm living in the same kind of house (not the same house, as I changed states and jobs, but what I mean is a house that I could have bought with my previous income), have the same paid-off vehicles. I have taken loans for my vehicles but paid them off early. I never run balances on my credit cards.

What am I doing with all that extra income? Pouring it into my retirement accounts! I have never felt the need to buy a flashier car, faster airplane, or fancier house just because I'm earning 40% more. What I'd really like to do is be able to fly the airplane and live in the house after retirement.

I think a lot of people needlessly expand their lifestyles to meet their incomes, which is silly beyond a certain point IMNTBHO. But then again, I don't measure my self worth by my toys and house.

Judy
 
tdager said:
Even with my minimum bills and good pay it would take me 5 years to save 50-60K for a plane. All the while spending money on rentals.
Click to expand...

And then you have 100% of the expenses for the plane to pay - hangar, insurance, annuals, etc. Alternative, buy a share in a partnership. I bought a 25% share, and the expenses of ownership are just 25% too. Much cheaper than renting if you fly more than about two hours a month, and if you buy right the investment goes up in value instead of being a dead loss. With 4 of us the plane is still available almost any time, and if two want to fly on a nice day we can go together. Longer trips take a little coordination with the others, but none of us needs it for business so it can be gone for a while when necessary.
 
judypilot said:
Unless I missed it, I'm surprised no one mentioned living well below your means. I have not "upgraded" my lifestyle since I bought my airplane, even though my income is now at least 40% higher. The plane will probably be the last lifestyle upgrade I will make. I'm living in the same kind of house (not the same house, as I changed states and jobs, but what I mean is a house that I could have bought with my previous income), have the same paid-off vehicles. I have taken loans for my vehicles but paid them off early. I never run balances on my credit cards.

What am I doing with all that extra income? Pouring it into my retirement accounts! I have never felt the need to buy a flashier car, faster airplane, or fancier house just because I'm earning 40% more. What I'd really like to do is be able to fly the airplane and live in the house after retirement.

I think a lot of people needlessly expand their lifestyles to meet their incomes, which is silly beyond a certain point IMNTBHO. But then again, I don't measure my self worth by my toys and house.

Judy
Click to expand...

My father gave me some sound advice when I graduated and that was this:

"When you get your paycheck, after you pay your bills but before anything else, pay yourself."

He went on to explain that doesn't mean getting a new car or any mess like that, because you're paying other people. What he means is putting money away that will grow and pay me later on in life. I would love a plane now, but putting money away might mean the difference between an used plane and a new R44 :D
 
judypilot said:
Unless I missed it, I'm surprised no one mentioned living well below your means.
Click to expand...

That is one of my secrets. I do not own a yuppie castle with 4000 square feet when I only need 1800 square feet. I drive a 12 year old car with 155,000 miles on it and when I buy a new car it will be with cash. I am saving for it now and have about half the cost saved up. I buy what I need and what makes me happy but I pay cash for it. Or put it on my card that I pay off each month, even my Starbucks ;)
 
wbarnhill said:
My father gave me some sound advice when I graduated and that was this:

"When you get your paycheck, after you pay your bills but before anything else, pay yourself."
Click to expand...

I would change that to say "Pay yourself first" before anything else. Then dont spend more than what is left.

The only exception I would make to that is if you are one that tithes, that would come first.
 
Skip Miller said:
Greg, I don't have a definitive reference for you, but I believe you are right.

In the early days of debit cards, the liability to the user was significantly different. Due to consumer protest, the banks had to change the agreements to protect the user in the case of fraud. Every one in the banking business that I have asked recently confirms your viewpoint.

-Skip
Click to expand...
Skip/Greg,
It's certainly possible it has changed. My reference was my debit card agreement from quite a few years ago. I don't remember it having changed, but I accept Skip's statement that he's checked. Good to hear!
 
gprellwitz said:
Skip/Greg,
It's certainly possible it has changed. My reference was my debit card agreement from quite a few years ago. I don't remember it having changed, but I accept Skip's statement that he's checked. Good to hear!
Click to expand...

Debit cards are zero liability, just like credit cards. The only down side is trying to get them to put the money back into your account as opposed to just not paying the credit card off until things get straightened out. So, to counter that we move all money into our savings account and just keep what we're going to need in the next couple of weeks in our checking account. If the debit were to get hit it wouldn't clean out all of our money, just the money that we had in there.

The ONLY time that I use a credit card (yes, I do have one) is to buy stuff online. My card company has a feature that I can generate one time use numbers...so I use those when I'm not confident in the security practices of the vendor.


AuntPeggy said:
Pay off the credit with highest INTEREST RATE first. Even if it is the smallest amount.

In fact, closing out a debt gives such a satisfying feeling, you can concentrate on closing out the smallest debts next after getting rid of the highest interest ones. And congratulate yourself every time you eliminate a debt.

Your home, car, and airplane are all acceptable mortgage items.
Click to expand...

Dave Ramsey says to pay off the smallest debts first, regardless of interest rate. You pay it off more quickly and are motivated by that success. Then you move on to the next thing in the list. Plus you can take the money that you were paying toward the first item and put it towards paying off the second...building momentum as you go.
 
Dwight B. Van Zanen said:
And then you have 100% of the expenses for the plane to pay - hangar, insurance, annuals, etc. Alternative, buy a share in a partnership. I bought a 25% share, and the expenses of ownership are just 25% too. Much cheaper than renting if you fly more than about two hours a month, and if you buy right the investment goes up in value instead of being a dead loss. With 4 of us the plane is still available almost any time, and if two want to fly on a nice day we can go together. Longer trips take a little coordination with the others, but none of us needs it for business so it can be gone for a while when necessary.
Click to expand...

A valid alternative, and one I would consider should the right opportunity present itself. However until it does I am fine with have 100% of the expenses
since I will also have 100% of the aircraft! :D It is a trade-off but one I am willing to make for now.

We too live well below our means. Our house is nice but nothing too extravagant (and we shall soon drop that annoying and worthless PMI) and one car is paid off and the other will be in about a year and a half. No major CC debt and one small student loan and the house.

We would rather DO things with our money that just buy "things". Get a plane, go travel, learn to scuba dive, go to Costa Rica, etc. Much more fun that cleaning a bug house we do not ned.
 
gprellwitz said:
Skip/Greg,
It's certainly possible it has changed. My reference was my debit card agreement from quite a few years ago. I don't remember it having changed, but I accept Skip's statement that he's checked. Good to hear!
Click to expand...
Well, I checked again and the issue is not clear. Here is an excerpt from the Public Interest Research Group on point:

unlike a credit card, under the law, your debit card liability could be as much as $500, if you notify the bank more than 48 hours after you learn of the problem or even up to all the money in your checking account plus your maximum overdraft line of credit if you fail to notify the bank within 60 days (See Fed excerpt below). Under pressure from the state PIRGs, banks claim to have voluntarily limited debit card liability to $50. PIRG has received complaints from consumers whose banks have not honored the well-publicized alleged voluntary $50 limit. Let us know (uspirg@pirg.org) if you have lost more than $50 in a debit card dispute with a bank, savings and loan or credit union.

Even the Federal Reserve recognizes the difference in liability rules. The following is excerpted from the Fed's website-- the Fed calls debit cards EFT or (Electronic Fund Transfer) cards:

What about Loss or Theft? It’s important to be aware of the potential risk in using an EFT card, which differs from the risk on a credit card.

On lost or stolen credit cards, your loss is limited to $50 per card (see Lost or Stolen Credit Cards). On an EFT card, your liability for an unauthorized withdrawal can vary: Your loss is limited to $50 if you notify the financial institution within two business days after learning of loss or theft of your card or code.

But you could lose as much as $500 if you do not tell the card issuer within two business days after learning of loss or theft.

If you do not report an unauthorized transfer that appears on your statement within 60 days after the statement is mailed to you, you risk unlimited loss on transfers made after the 60-day period. That means you could lose all the money in your account plus your maximum overdraft line of credit, if any. (end of Fed excerpt.)

Note that this web page was not dated (that is a gripe I have with many many web pages....:mad:)
So there still appears to be a lot of liability on the consumer to notify the bank and actively fight for the money back.

For the full text google "debit card liability".

-Skip
 
On credit cards: There is nothing wrong with credit cards as long as you pay off every month and don't get cash advances. Basically, as long as you don't anything that generates finance charges or interest, you get an interest-free loan every time you use it. Not a bad deal, when you get right down to it. Now whether you actually gain anything is another issue and depends on the timing of the payments and whether you collect interest on your checking account. In my case, if I really wanted to play the game, I could move what I know will be the payment into my savings account (which generates interest) before the end of the month, then withdraw it again to make the payment, which is due toward the end of each month. But that's kind of a PITA and I figure my time is worth more than the small amount of extra interest I would earn. OTOH, paying with a cc saves time, too, so I figure I make it up that way, making the interest-free loan concept worth something.

What I haven't been able to do is stop getting huge tax refunds, meaning I am giving an interest-free loan to the government! But every time I've tried to use their little calculator, I get the same answer about withholding. The one time I tried to push it the other way, I underpaid, and got hit with a penalty (although it wasn't very big--really quite a low-interest loan to me, when you get right down to it). I think their calculator is screwy, but can't figure out how to get the withholding just right. ****es me off.

Judy
 
judypilot said:
On credit cards: There is nothing wrong with credit cards as long as you pay off every month and don't get cash advances. Basically, as long as you don't anything that generates finance charges or interest, you get an interest-free loan every time you use it. Not a bad deal, when you get right down to it. Now whether you actually gain anything is another issue and depends on the timing of the payments and whether you collect interest on your checking account. In my case, if I really wanted to play the game, I could move what I know will be the payment into my savings account (which generates interest) before the end of the month, then withdraw it again to make the payment, which is due toward the end of each month. But that's kind of a PITA and I figure my time is worth more than the small amount of extra interest I would earn. OTOH, paying with a cc saves time, too, so I figure I make it up that way, making the interest-free loan concept worth something.
Click to expand...


I agree with you for the most part. However, there is one point that I'm surprised that nobody has covered. That is the fact that people tend to spend more when they pay with credit cards than they do when they pay with cash.

"Studies show that people who use credit cards to buy gifts spend an average of 30 percent more than people who use cash," notes the Consumer Credit Counseling Service, a nonprofit outfit.


In other words, leave your cards at home and you'll likely spend less.
Click to expand...
 
... snip...9. Marry the right person the first time. Divorce can really destroy a great financial plan, and a bad marriage can be even worse. If you have the same dreams and aspirations you can help each other achieve them. With different dreams and aspirations, you are in competition for who gets what, every time you have a decision to make. ...snip...
Click to expand...
Good luck with that. Depending on the state, the other party gets all the money and you get all the debt. Shared credit cards or shared bank accounts; all get raided by the other party. You cancel the cards to prevent further erosion and find you get all the debt even though they racked them up.
Blows your financial plans all to heck.
 
FlyNE said:
I agree with you for the most part. However, there is one point that I'm surprised that nobody has covered. That is the fact that people tend to spend more when they pay with credit cards than they do when they pay with cash.
Click to expand...

I covered it, indirectly. The only advantage of a debit card (or cash or check) is psychological, in that since you are paying for it NOW you tend to reconsider whether you need it (therefore, buy less). If you have a little willpower, and consider every purchase as money spent, you can overcome that. Again, I would just remind you of the CC rewards programs that PAY YOU to use their money for a month. As long as you pay it off every month the reward % is effectively a price reduction on everything you buy. You can't get that with a debit card that I am aware of.
 
Last edited:
gprellwitz said:
Skip/Greg,
It's certainly possible it has changed. My reference was my debit card agreement from quite a few years ago. I don't remember it having changed, but I accept Skip's statement that he's checked. Good to hear!
Click to expand...

FlyNE said:
Debit cards are zero liability, just like credit cards.
Click to expand...

Did you guy read message #74? I posted that there is not zero liability nor the same protections as credit cards and gave the reference.

Skip Miller said:
Well, I checked again and the issue is not clear. Here is an excerpt from the Public Interest Research Group on point:

unlike a credit card, under the law, your debit card liability could be as much as $500, if you notify the bank more than 48 hours after you learn of the problem or even up to all the money in your checking account plus your maximum overdraft line of credit if you fail to notify the bank within 60 days (See Fed excerpt below). Under pressure from the state PIRGs, banks claim to have voluntarily limited debit card liability to $50. PIRG has received complaints from consumers whose banks have not honored the well-publicized alleged voluntary $50 limit. Let us know (uspirg@pirg.org) if you have lost more than $50 in a debit card dispute with a bank, savings and loan or credit union.

Even the Federal Reserve recognizes the difference in liability rules. The following is excerpted from the Fed's website-- the Fed calls debit cards EFT or (Electronic Fund Transfer) cards:

What about Loss or Theft? It’s important to be aware of the potential risk in using an EFT card, which differs from the risk on a credit card.

On lost or stolen credit cards, your loss is limited to $50 per card (see Lost or Stolen Credit Cards). On an EFT card, your liability for an unauthorized withdrawal can vary: Your loss is limited to $50 if you notify the financial institution within two business days after learning of loss or theft of your card or code.

But you could lose as much as $500 if you do not tell the card issuer within two business days after learning of loss or theft.

If you do not report an unauthorized transfer that appears on your statement within 60 days after the statement is mailed to you, you risk unlimited loss on transfers made after the 60-day period. That means you could lose all the money in your account plus your maximum overdraft line of credit, if any. (end of Fed excerpt.)

Note that this web page was not dated (that is a gripe I have with many many web pages....:mad:)
So there still appears to be a lot of liability on the consumer to notify the bank and actively fight for the money back.

For the full text google "debit card liability".

-Skip
Click to expand...

Thanks Skip for finding the same stuff I found when I went looking. Since we both came up with the same info that is a good sign it is valid.

I could not find anything to say that the above is no longer true. In the absence of data to contrary I think we must agree that there are difference in liability between credit cards and bank debate cards. Perhaps some banks have taken the initiative to protect their customers but there is not any blanket protection I have found.
 
When I became able to pay off my residential 30-year mortgage nine years ahead of term I was advised, Oh, don't do that; you'll need the interest expenses for tax purposes. I countered that I was aware of the benefits but that I'd paid the bank enough during 21 years. I then calculated the future per annum interest costs for the next nine years; about $30,000(total for nine years). I paid off the mortgage amid the pleading of the bank to not do so.

Knowing precisely what each future year's "tax benefit" would have been I make certain that allowable charitable deductions for each year shall be in a like amount(and more) per year. I'm much happier knowing that the Humane Society, public library, church, and other "allowables" can get immediate use of funds, rather than the bank having me locked in to their future earnings.
Cars, truck, motorcycle, plane = fuel & oil, plus cost of maintenance. Credit cards to be used sensibly. But it was a long time coming.

HR
 
smigaldi said:
Did you guy read message #74? I posted that there is not zero liability nor the same protections as credit cards and gave the reference.



Thanks Skip for finding the same stuff I found when I went looking. Since we both came up with the same info that is a good sign it is valid.

I could not find anything to say that the above is no longer true. In the absence of data to contrary I think we must agree that there are difference in liability between credit cards and bank debate cards. Perhaps some banks have taken the initiative to protect their customers but there is not any blanket protection I have found.
Click to expand...

What about this...

http://www.mastercard.com/us/personal/en/aboutourcards/debit/standard_card.html said:
Debit MasterCard offers the flexibility, convenience and many of the great benefits of a MasterCard credit card.
Cardholders Enjoy:
  • <SNIP>
  • Zero Liability
    Pay only for purchases which you have authorized on your MasterCard card. So long as your account is in good standing, you have exercised reasonable care in safeguarding your card, and you have not reported two or more unauthorized events in the past twelve months, unauthorized purchases are not your responsibility.
Click to expand...

And this...
http://usa.visa.com/personal/security/visa_security_program/zero_liability.html?it=l2|/personal/security/vbv/index.html|Zero%20Liability said:
The Zero Liability policy covers all Visa credit and debit card transactions processed over the Visa network—online or off. The only transactions not covered under the Zero Liability policy are commercial card, ATM, and non-Visa-branded PIN transactions.
Click to expand...

The difference between what you are talking about (EFT) and what I am posting here has to do with whether you use your card as a credit card (mastercard/visa) or if you type in your PIN number (EFT). If it's used as a credit card you are covered by the card issuers policies. CC is by far the most likely fraudulant activity because they can don't need your PIN and they can enjoy the anonymity that online shopping provides.
 
So the debit Mastercard offers the same great benefits as the credit Mastercard? Great. Why not just use a credit Mastercard then? I still don't see any benefit to using a debit card as opposed to a credit card. It could be that people with bad credit can ONLY get a debit card, but that has got to be rare. My kids get credit card offers all the time, with minimal income reported.
 
people do find ways to spend whatever they bring in. i thank mom and dad for not raising me that way. and i found it very easy to stop spending and start saving when i hit a certain comfortable lifestyle. after that, getting out of debt, paying off the house, the car, saving for retirement was quite easy. while my work buddies live in 1mm+ homes, pay 30k for property tax and 20k for homeowners insurance and compete with who spent the most on the new bmw, porsche or mercedes i opted for early retirement, at the ripe old age of 47. my bmw is a 5yr audi and my million dollar mansion is a cherokee and i couldn't be happier! i have learned one thing through my life. those who constantly compare what they have with everybody around them are the most miserable people in the world. :yes: tc
 
Just because I have to scrape to fly a Skyhawk and Rush can fly is G-IV any time he wants to doesn't mean I'm miserable!!!! Goodgriefgollygeewhiz!

I'm just overly inconvenienced. :D
 
Dwight B. Van Zanen said:
So the debit Mastercard offers the same great benefits as the credit Mastercard? Great. Why not just use a credit Mastercard then? I still don't see any benefit to using a debit card as opposed to a credit card. It could be that people with bad credit can ONLY get a debit card, but that has got to be rare. My kids get credit card offers all the time, with minimal income reported.
Click to expand...

Because theoretically if you have insufficient funds in your account, you cannot use the debit card. The advantage of a debit is that you have a built in spending limit.

This crowd, for the most part, is a responsible bunch. But there are a BUNCH of people out there who cannot control their spending and accumulate incredible amounts of credit card debt.
 
Greg Bockelman said:
Because theoretically if you have insufficient funds in your account, you cannot use the debit card. The advantage of a debit is that you have a built in spending limit.

This crowd, for the most part, is a responsible bunch. But there are a BUNCH of people out there who cannot control their spending and accumulate incredible amounts of credit card debt.
Click to expand...

Except, that does not work - at least not with the debit cards that have a VISA or Mastercard logo and are therefore usable most places. As I noted above, I looked into this for my kids and with insufficient funds it shows up just like a bounced check with charges of about $27/overdraft. Much better to use a credit card and pay it off each month = NO BANK CHARGE. And they still give you a reward % which works like a discount on everything. If it worked as you said, no money means no purchase, I could see it being useful for some situations - like when you are unwilling or unable to keep track of your checking account balance. As it is, a debit card has no benefits in any situation I have ever had to deal with.
 
Dwight B. Van Zanen said:
Except, that does not work -

Works that way on mine. I tried it once. Not on purpose, mind you. But no funds no charge, no purchase.

Much better to use a credit card and pay it off each month = NO BANK CHARGE.
Click to expand...

This is true, but there are a LOT of people who don't have that discipline.

As it is, a debit card has no benefits in any situation I have ever had to deal with.
Click to expand...

To each his own. I have no problems with them.
Click to expand...
 
Dwight B. Van Zanen said:
Except, that does not work - at least not with the debit cards that have a VISA or Mastercard logo and are therefore usable most places.
Click to expand...
That logo is the problem. If you whine a lot your bank will issue a plain ATM card, no MC/Visa logo. You are restricted to ATMs and the associated ATM fees but you can't withdraw what isn't there.

-Skip
 
Lawreston said:
When I became able to pay off my residential 30-year mortgage nine years ahead of term I was advised, Oh, don't do that; you'll need the interest expenses for tax purposes.
Click to expand...
It is amazing to me how many people fall for that.

Pay $1 in interest. Reduce your taxes by $0.30. You are better off, right? :no: :mad:

-Skip
 
Skip Miller said:
It is amazing to me how many people fall for that.

Pay $1 in interest. Reduce your taxes by $0.30. You are better off, right? :no: :mad:

-Skip
Click to expand...


Why pay off a 6% note with a 30% discount? Many other investments have a higher return.

I like Dave Ramsey, but I find him way too conservative. IOW, if you have the discipline to follow his advice, you don't need his advice.

OPM, OPM, OPM.


James Dean
 
James_Dean said:
Why pay off a 6% note with a 30% discount? Many other investments have a higher return.

really? what investments these days reliably pay over 6%? i wasn't able to write-off my mtg interest expense so i paid it off. even if i could have written it off i'd have done the same. nothing nicer than no mtg payments! it leaves me a lot more money to fly! :yes: tc
Click to expand...
 
I've never bought the idea that having a mortgage payment is somehow compensated by having a tax deduction.

If you have a 1000/mo mortgage (12k/yr) and you pay 10k in interest, and you're in a 30% bracket, then you just paid 12,000 to avoid paying 3,000...

I'd rather pay the 3 and have the extra 9.

Mind you - the tax break on the interest *IS* a nice thing to have, but its *not* a reason to have a mortgage. Buying a house is...
 
tom clark said:
Why pay off a 6% note with a 30% discount? Many other investments have a higher return.

really? what investments these days reliably pay over 6%? i wasn't able to write-off my mtg interest expense so i paid it off. even if i could have written it off i'd have done the same. nothing nicer than no mtg payments! it leaves me a lot more money to fly! :yes: tc
Click to expand...


You're trying to beat 4% not 6%. If you can't beat 4% then you need to put your money under a matress, cuz' you don't know what you're doing.

I can get a 90 day CD at my local bank that's paying 4.72%. You could also go buy stock in Pfizer, Ameren, ConEd, WaMu, Verizon, Bristol - all have a dividend yield above 4%.

Don't get me wrong, I'd like no mortgage payment too. However, the best use of my surplus money is not to pay off a low interest loan that I get a government rebate on as well. You know how I finance my airplane and flying? HELOC, tax deductable as well and I keep the surplus funds working for me in the market.

OPM, OPM, OPM.


James Dean
 
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