Living On What Flying Will Pay

Warrior

Line Up and Wait
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Warrior
In another thread I posted that a teacher had advised going into a profession/job that you like and learning to live on what that pays. Someone responded that I described flying.

How has it worked out for those who have gone into aviation because you enjoyed it? Are you happy? Did my teacher give good advice?
 
Yeah I think you're referring to that popular video where the professor is telling his students to choose their passion and not money. It's inspirational and all but how many of us are lucky enough to being doing what we always wanted to do? We always hear that you can accomplish your dreams and do whatever you put your mind to. I That's great, but you better have a plan B if your dream job doesn't come through.

I went after my passion and I am fortunate enough to get paid to fly, but if it didn't work out, it wouldn't have been the end of the world. Life goes on and you do whatever is necessary to pay the bills.
 
The idea of finding a way to make money doing something you love (or at least like) isn't bad advice.

I fly for a living. I can't imagine dragging myself to a cubicle that I hated 40 hours a week to make money to live. With that said, I can't imagine talking someone into the flying profession the way it currently is. $100K in loans to land a $17K job??? The numbers just don't work.
 
I started out at 19 doing exactly that. It was fine for a few years when I was young and single and owned nothing. I shared a cockpit with lots of 60 year old guys who were also single and owned nothing. After a few years I decided i wanted to have a family and own some extravagent things, like my own home. So I went back to school and got a real job.
 
Aviation can be a financially rewarding career, but not necessarily for pilots.

The problem faced by many aspiring pilots is the same as those who think they want to pursue other professions, in that they can't see the inside of professional flying until they're doing it. That means they have committed a big chunk of time and money prior to getting a seat.

Once in the seat, they may discover that the things they enjoy most relative to "slipping the surly bonds" and all that good stuff isn't part of the deal. Instead, it quickly becomes a job that doesn't pay well and doesn't the life-style (in either comp or QOL) that was a part of the dream.

Some pilots can't imagine doing anything else, others would jump at the chance. In that respect it's no different than any other job.
 
There are a lot of full-time pilots of major airlines who are so hemmed in by all the regs, company rules, and bone crushing boring repetitive flights, that

They fly small GA aircraft during their free time so they can do what they love.

It may be that you'll enjoy flying more if you don't do it as a full time job.
 
There are opportunities to make a pretty good living in aviation starting out. I got one of them, courtesy of Jesse.
 
I honestly can't see how operators make money. I see turbine stuff sit for weeks to months for parts and even years for structural repairs. The current hot part is the trailing link on Cessna 560XL's. These aircraft must be indoors and positioned in the back of the hangar on jacks, hogging precious real estate, waiting.

 
There are opportunities to make a pretty good living in aviation starting out. I got one of them, courtesy of Jesse.


Forgive me if I'm guessing wrong, but you are going to be the rod man for a surveyor when you are not flying the plane from location to location?
 
Forgive me if I'm guessing wrong, but you are going to be the rod man for a surveyor when you are not flying the plane from location to location?

Correct. They're actually teaching me so I can fly out to locations and do it independently. That's what they would like to do.
 
You can't be too picky with jobs. I enjoy surveying, and I love flying. I found a good job that pays pretty well so I took it. I like my boss and the guy I survey with, so I'm happy.
 
Yeah I think you're referring to that popular video where the professor is telling his students to choose their passion and not money. It's inspirational and all but how many of us are lucky enough to being doing what we always wanted to do? We always hear that you can accomplish your dreams and do whatever you put your mind to. I That's great, but you better have a plan B if your dream job doesn't come through.

I went after my passion and I am fortunate enough to get paid to fly, but if it didn't work out, it wouldn't have been the end of the world. Life goes on and you do whatever is necessary to pay the bills.

There was a gentleman named Larry Burkett who died a few years ago. He is the one who encouraged you to find a job you liked. He wrote some books on Financial Matters.

My kids don't know a lot about budgeting but my parents, who went through the depression sure could stretch a dollar!
 
I did well. I was able to put my wife through school, pay for my family's needs and garner a comfortable retirement. Admittedly my wife will make 10X what I earned over her career compared to mine, but I got immense satisfaction out of my flying career and got to do and see things most can't imagine. I met and flew with some of the most gifted and inspiring folks on the planet and helped a good number of folks along the way. I do not think flying for the majors would have fit me well, but I lucked into my niche, with some hard work I admit, and wouldn't change a thing. I don't think a lot of folks in cubicles can say that.
 
Just left my cubicle job!!!to go back to school. The more i dream about working as a pilot the less i make sense of the numbers. For my situation and career perspective it makes more sense to fly on the side, or for business in the future, even maybe as charity, but not as a pro pilot. although id i would have known about flying in high school that would be another story.
 
I got a job that paid the bills and took care of my family. It also had a flexible enough schedule to allow me to pursue a part-time flying job. I get to fly without any of the drudgery, with different people and flights every time, and still be certain to make enough money to take care of the home life.
 
I've worked all my life flying and have had no trouble supporting myself, but I am single with no kids. I could have supported a family on only my income over the years but it would have been harder. Plenty of people do. If I had been married with a working spouse we could have been extravagant!
 
I've worked all my life flying and have had no trouble supporting myself, but I am single with no kids. I could have supported a family on only my income over the years but it would have been harder. Plenty of people do. If I had been married with a working spouse we could have been extravagant!

The stick figure family on your car would then be man, woman, and two bags of money! :)
 
Cubicles should be viewed as a starting point rather than a destination. If you're still there after a few years, it might be time for some introspection. Most of the buildings with cubicles have corner offices too.


[CQUOTE=Threefingeredjack;1143540]I did well. I was able to put my wife through school, pay for my family's needs and garner a comfortable retirement. Admittedly my wife will make 10X what I earned over her career compared to mine, but I got immense satisfaction out of my flying career and got to do and see things most can't imagine. I met and flew with some of the most gifted and inspiring folks on the planet and helped a good number of folks along the way. I do not think flying for the majors would have fit me well, but I lucked into my niche, with some hard work I admit, and wouldn't change a thing. I don't think a lot of folks in cubicles can say that.[/QUOTE]
 
I'm happy being a professional pilot. It has it's ups and downs like every other job. The biggest thing is to go in with your eyes wide open. The Internet makes it easier, but remember that ****ed off people post. Happy people not so much.
 
In another thread I posted that a teacher had advised going into a profession/job that you like and learning to live on what that pays. Someone responded that I described flying.

How has it worked out for those who have gone into aviation because you enjoyed it? Are you happy? Did my teacher give good advice?

It's worked out pretty good for me so far.

I used to do the cubicle thing. If the flying gig stops working for me in the future, I'll probably resort to ditch digging before I go back to the cubicle.
 
The stick figure family on your car would then be man, woman, and two bags of money! :)

last i checked they weren't selling these in the XKCD store. Too bad.

family_decals.png
 
Correct. They're actually teaching me so I can fly out to locations and do it independently. That's what they would like to do.

Seems like a good compromise. I really enjoy flying, but I would think that it would get old flying for the majors and all they have to deal with.

Having a second career (like surveying) is a good idea, any of us could loose our medical for a variety of reasons.

I feel fortunate that I can fly for business reasons and get to write off the expense. Makes it easier to justify avionics upgrades, buy planes, etc. The down side is that it took me till my mid forties to be in this position.

My biggest suggestion is to make yourself so valuable and versatile that being able to fly someone around is a bonus and not the only reason to hire you.

Jim
 
I think that is good advice. Find something you enjoy. Pay may have slipped over the last decade but there are still jobs that pay well out there. I put in my time at the commuters making very little while I could have been using my degree to earn more but I got lucky and ended up at one of the better majors and have had a good career. I still enjoy what I do which is the best part.
 
$100K in loans to land a $17K job???



I can remember the day I quit my insurance adjustor job..to go after this career with nothing more than some money saved to knock out my ratings full time ..felt like jumping off a cliff but that is par for the course in going after something that will make you happy
Believe it or not things can work out well with hard work ,luck and some fiscal discipline
.

.my first year at a regional I did 25k ..almost.exactly what I spent on my training..that year flew by and 1/3 of it was training ..I'm in year 2.5 with a class date for upgrade to CA next month ... movement is picking up at many places ..not always the doom and gloom that gets put out there alot ...
 
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I paid $22K for all my ratings. As a CFI I made $30K in a SwissAir contract. Good money for the effort and the effort was minimal. M-F with top notch students. They were all already hired and all they could do was lose their job. Talk about motivated students!

After that I did my regional airline thing. Upgraded within a year in a CRJ. Times were good. Topped out at around $65K and things began to slip backward. Displaced to FO. Furloughed.

New job at the worst airline ever flight freight...Amerijet. Told some stories here that ended up getting the thread locked. The stories were true though.

Now I fly corporate. 15 years into this 'aviation' thing and I'm making more money than ever. I'm clearing around $108K per year for a week on / week off sched. So I get $108K for 6 months work minus vacation.

Maybe I've made it. This is the goal...

But, my company scares me every payday. I don't know if I'm getting paid or not. I text my bank every payday morning at around 2am to see if Im going to get up and fly or not.

For the past few years my family has refused to pull the trigger on big purchases like cars due to the uncertainty. So both our cars are fully paid but mine has 125K on it and my wife has 150K. We are going to have to do something soon...but I know not what.

We are going to England this summer. My wife was born there and all her family is there. She hasn't been to England since 2003. I don't like spending the money to go now but find it hard to deny my wife from going home at least once a decade.

So, there's a glimpse into how a pilot who has maybe 'made it' is doing. I do not look at myself as have making it. I know there are tons of guys that have and I don't count myself among them.
 
Cubicles should be viewed as a starting point rather than a destination. If you're still there after a few years, it might be time for some introspection. Most of the buildings with cubicles have corner offices too.

What if I have a corner cubicle? :dunno:

last i checked they weren't selling these in the XKCD store. Too bad.

family_decals.png

I would've bought some a couple of years ago. Different now.
 
That's purt' near as good as us Okies with a king-size mattress on the porch.

What if I have a corner cubicle? :dunno:



I would've bought some a couple of years ago. Different now.
 
That's purt' near as good as us Okies with a king-size mattress on the porch.

Well dang, I must be living the dream! :)

I get others eyeing my prime real estate cubicle. Here the offices are in the center, no windows. Go figure.
 
Your post is reflective of the situation in which a high percentage of pilots find themselves at some point during their careers. When I started flying big airplanes for other people I was a bit older than most in the field, had accumulated a stash that eliminated any money worries for our lifetimes and had a long background in financial planning and related issues (taxes, strategies, techniques, yada yada.)

As a result of these circumstances, the word got around and I found myself somewhat besieged for advice by the guys who had reached (or were approaching) the same age level and uncomfortably contemplating what they needed to do about their as-yet-unfunded retirement. Frankly, many of them are in a world of hurt. On a side note, has anybody noticed how many former GA pilots take jobs with the FAA late in their careers? Anybody ever wondered why? Does anybody really think it's because they want to work there?

And as recently as last Friday I was involved in a round of discussions with pilots and MX personnel whose professional and highly-respected flight department is being eliminated due to a buyout. Ten pilot jobs and almost as many other flight department jobs are out the window, only a few of which are held by young guys who can easily cut back or start over. Why? Flight departments don't survive hostile takeovers.

Then over the weekend and yesterday I was involved in several conversations with career pilots in their 40's during which all of the frustrations, uncertainties and financial issues were aired. These issues haven't changed for the 25 years I've been involved in the staffing side of the industry and never will. The reason is simple. In spite of all the bluster and bullshlt "when I'm flying this jet, I'm the boss" pilots simply have no leverage.

A good friend is a former 121 pilot who bailed out after reading the tea leaves and now runs a financial planning organization with a number of pilot, FA and other aviation-related clients. Many of the stories are heart-wrenching, especially the lost retirements.

For kids like David who are flying and thinking they have good jobs, my question is whether they will be able to buy their 17 y/o kid a $100k Mooney. I've been playing and watching this game for 52 years since my first opportunity (that I declined) to fly for TWA, and have yet to meet a pilot who has become wealthy from sitting on sheepskin seats. If it's such a great career, where are those guys?

I did well. I was able to put my wife through school, pay for my family's needs and garner a comfortable retirement. Admittedly my wife will make 10X what I earned over her career compared to mine, but I got immense satisfaction out of my flying career and got to do and see things most can't imagine. I met and flew with some of the most gifted and inspiring folks on the planet and helped a good number of folks along the way. I do not think flying for the majors would have fit me well, but I lucked into my niche, with some hard work I admit, and wouldn't change a thing. I don't think a lot of folks in cubicles can say that.

I paid $22K for all my ratings. As a CFI I made $30K in a SwissAir contract. Good money for the effort and the effort was minimal. M-F with top notch students. They were all already hired and all they could do was lose their job. Talk about motivated students!

After that I did my regional airline thing. Upgraded within a year in a CRJ. Times were good. Topped out at around $65K and things began to slip backward. Displaced to FO. Furloughed.

New job at the worst airline ever flight freight...Amerijet. Told some stories here that ended up getting the thread locked. The stories were true though.

Now I fly corporate. 15 years into this 'aviation' thing and I'm making more money than ever. I'm clearing around $108K per year for a week on / week off sched. So I get $108K for 6 months work minus vacation.

Maybe I've made it. This is the goal...

But, my company scares me every payday. I don't know if I'm getting paid or not. I text my bank every payday morning at around 2am to see if Im going to get up and fly or not.

For the past few years my family has refused to pull the trigger on big purchases like cars due to the uncertainty. So both our cars are fully paid but mine has 125K on it and my wife has 150K. We are going to have to do something soon...but I know not what.

We are going to England this summer. My wife was born there and all her family is there. She hasn't been to England since 2003. I don't like spending the money to go now but find it hard to deny my wife from going home at least once a decade.

So, there's a glimpse into how a pilot who has maybe 'made it' is doing. I do not look at myself as have making it. I know there are tons of guys that have and I don't count myself among them.
 
In my case, I spent a bit over a year flying to supposedly earn a living between my previous engineering job and this one. It was a great deal of fun when you removed some of the facts, but the pay cut of more than 50% was less than desirable, especially once you factor in the lack of benefits. At the time, it did work out for us especially given my wife's work schedule, and it allowed us to spend a lot of time together when she was off. But with our new life situation, I am happy to be sitting in a cubicle with a good job with good benefits, savings, and reason to believe that we can provide for our son. I miss the flying I used to do, but I don't miss some of the compromises.

In my case, the 4 year degree has paid for itslef, even though it wasn't a cheap degree.
 
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