LightSpeed's "Why fewer new GA pilots" poll results...

There aren't a lot of commuter flights between areas of northern NH/Maine and the Boston/NY area hospitals. So, no, volunteer drivers and a commuter plane ticket (but not just one, usually two tickets) cannot possibly win *every* time.
 
jesse said:
Does that $350 include the cost of your girlfriend? When comparing GA to airlines it generally equals out if you have several people.

Some flights I look at would cost about $1500. If you owned and had a family of four it would basically make more sense to fly GA. 4 * $4-$500 for a ticket adds up fast.

For one person GA makes a lot of sense if it is a few hour flight. The price gets "sort of" close to the airlines.
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Excellent point - no, it did not include her ticket. And the GA cost didn't include her half of the rental either, so it appears GA actually wins the price battle there....

Woot.
 
Bob Noel said:
It's interesting to see claims that GA isn't practical for transportation. That must be something Angel Flight have somehow overlooked. I haven't done any flights,
but have pickedup/dropped off a number of Angel Flight patients. Sometimes
the airplane is a sweet twin (with de-ice), but most of the time the airplane used
was a 172/182 or cherokee.
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Angel flight doesn't pay a dime for it either.... Practicality has a $$$ component attached.
 
SkyHog said:
I just flew to Las Vegas, NV. Took me between 3 and 4 hours, one way, that's approximately $500, and only so much because I rented an airplane. Had I driven, it would have taken approximately 11 hours at a cost around $200 for gas, and thats with a car I own. Had I rented it would have been a lot more.

Had I flown commercially, it would have taken me about 3 hours with the security lines and checking baggage and whatnot and cost me approximately $350 dollars.

That's a pretty impressive comparison. Its faster to fly GA than to drive and possibly only about 30 minutes slower than flying commercially.

It costs about double to fly than to drive, but only about 1/3 more than flying commercial.

Whether I'd flown commercially or flown GA, I was still out a ride in Las Vegas either way, so driving wins that convenience. But by flying instead of driving, I essentially got 2 extra days in Vegas.

I think this is a no brainer.
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But the "no brainer" decision would have been to jump on the smoker from the time/cost aspect.:rolleyes:
 
Henning said:
But the "no brainer" decision would have been to jump on the smoker from the time/cost aspect.:rolleyes:
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I guess it depends on whether you're capable of seeing the value in not being packed next to a smelly dude, and being able to land and stretch your feet when you need.

And Jesse's point that actually makes it cheaper.....
 
Bob Noel said:
There aren't a lot of commuter flights between areas of northern NH/Maine and the Boston/NY area hospitals. So, no, volunteer drivers and a commuter plane ticket (but not just one, usually two tickets) cannot possibly win *every* time.
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5-6 hour drive. Send a car. If we had free 100% safe and reliable teleportation pilots would still be trying to justify GA. GA as practical transportation doesn't pass the sniff test. GA would be better served by pilots making the claim, that they fly because they want to, and not making false claims of practicality.
 
I think the practicality of small airplanes vs. airlines depends quite a bit on where you live. If you live somewhere with poor airline service it tilts the scale towards GA. If you live somewhere with poor weather it tilts it towards airlines. If you live somewhere with poor airline service, poor weather, not that far to go, and not much money it tilts it toward driving. Also, as Jesse pointed out, putting more people in the airplane decreases the cost per person, although a car works that way too. I knew someone who bought a Comanche a number of years ago with the intention of visiting his family in Southern California every month or two. He was always canceling or getting stuck because of weather, especially in the winter, and would often wind up buying an airline ticket anyway. Granted, Denver has a lot of airline service and Denver to California crosses a lot of terrain but that was an instance where a small airplane was definitely not practical and he ended up selling it.
 
ClimbnSink said:
5-6 hour drive. Send a car. If we had free 100% safe and reliable teleportation pilots would still be trying to justify GA. GA as practical transportation doesn't pass the sniff test. GA would be better served by pilots making the claim, that they fly because they want to, and not making false claims of practicality.
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I think GA only becomes practical if you are equipped and willing to fly hard IFR and have TKS, in cockpit weather, etc. Dr. Bruce and his Seneca come to mind and then the Pilatus, Meridian, turbine crowd. But, that is well beyond the average GA pilot. I type this as I sit, stranded in a Holiday Inn Express waiting out thunderstorms to proceed on my way. :frown3: Yeah, I'll get out today and get back but it cost me a hotel stay and wasted time to the point that driving would have been more feasible.
 
Anthony said:
I think GA only becomes practical if you are equipped and willing to fly hard IFR and have TKS, in cockpit weather, etc. Dr. Bruce and his Seneca come to mind and then the Pilatus, Meridian, turbine crowd. But, that is well beyond the average GA pilot. I type this as I sit, stranded in a Holiday Inn Express waiting out thunderstorms to proceed on my way. :frown3: Yeah, I'll get out today and get back but it cost me a hotel stay and wasted time to the point that driving would have been more feasible.
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Yep - unless you've got all that good stuff, it's "Time to spare, travel by air"...:frown3:


Trapper John
 
>5-6 hour drive. Send a car.

I don't believe you understand the purpose of Angel Flight.
 
Angelflight Mission Statement: To increase the self-importance of pilots and alleviate guilt that pilot's shouldn't have in the first place. Not the stated purpose but probably a more accurate one.
 
Tell that to the patients.
 
Bob Noel said:
Tell that to the patients.
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I think the thing is that if you look only at the cost it usually would be cheaper to travel another way even though it might be harder on them. The fact that the airplane and pilot services are donated, which is a wonderful, generous thing, makes it possible for the patient to travel this way. If they had to pay for a charter or air ambulance flight themselves it wouldn't be so practical or maybe not even possible unless insurance was paying.
 
The claim was that the commuter flight with volunteer drivers would "always" win. While there are scenarios where that would be true, I recognize that there are situations where commuter flights are not available that would result in less travel time. And driving those distances isn't a good option for some patients.

When I flew home (commercial) following surgery in Ceder Rapids, the worst parts of the trip were the 20 minute car rides to/from the airport - I felt every stinking pothole, and I was on some good pain meds. As a result I gained some apprecriation for how riding in a car can be quite uncomfortable.
 
Anthony said:
I think GA only becomes practical if you are equipped and willing to fly hard IFR and have TKS, in cockpit weather, etc. Dr. Bruce and his Seneca come to mind and then the Pilatus, Meridian, turbine crowd. But, that is well beyond the average GA pilot. I type this as I sit, stranded in a Holiday Inn Express waiting out thunderstorms to proceed on my way. :frown3: Yeah, I'll get out today and get back but it cost me a hotel stay and wasted time to the point that driving would have been more feasible.
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It depends on the kind of travel you do. Most of the traveling I do isn't really time sensitive. I would much rather fly -- and if that means waiting a day or until the next weekend -- that is fine with me.

Don't confuse business travel with personal travel.
 
Anthony said:
I think GA only becomes practical if you are equipped and willing to fly hard IFR and have TKS, in cockpit weather, etc.
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Depends on your definition of "hard IFR" but I tend to agree with that one. You need to be instrument rated, and comfortable flying approaches to minimums in actual.

However, I don't think de-ice is a requirement. :no: I have flown in actual every month of the year, in Wisconsin, without picking up ice. Ice is like thunderstorms: Sometimes the clouds have it, sometimes they don't. Sure, de-ice adds to the utility of an airplane, but a non-FIKI airplane still will be able to go 95% of the time.

I think that "in cockpit weather" can be handled by a 496. Are you gonna pick your way through a line of TSRA with it? No, but it'll allow you to know where the storms are and allow you to either plan a way around them, or help you pick a spot to stop for lunch while they pass by.

Even the airlines don't have 100% reliability. In comparison, GA is really quite close, provided you're instrument rated and proficient.

IMHO, GA is fun *and* practical, except for from a cost standpoint (unless you're doing something with multiple people and/or a mission that simply cannot be done via driving or airlines). And I use it that way. It's not 100% reliable, but then no mode of transportation is. It's "close enough" though. :yes:
 
Kent. I pretty much agree with that except it seems where I fly ice is pretty much a regular occurence in the winter, although I think the analogy to TS's is a good one. If you need to get there in the winter by GA, FIKI, etc does help alot.

Yes, Jesse, I would rather fly too and am doing it right now (non-business) instead of droning along on the highway. Much cooler. :smile:
 
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