LightSpeed's "Why fewer new GA pilots" poll results...

Sounds like "follow the money." Over 90% of the responses have money as at least a significant part of the root cause. Not earth-shattering, of course. The problem is, that the respondents are already pilots and are guessing. More meaningful would be to ask the general population!
 
Keep in mind that the likely participants in this poll are pilots. Given that I think some of the excuses are skewed a little. I think that 0% for the SIM response is low. I know a lot of guy who are more than happy to play simulator and have built some really cool things to play with. The flight sim world is at least as social as the real pilot world.

The other part of the poll that is interesting is that most of the respondents are worried about costs. Thinking that this is a response on a website where people are looking at buying a new piece of gear they may be over sensitive to spending money. While I am not saying cost is not a factor the driving cost issue, fuel, is not the problem it was a year ago, yet it seems that GA flights are down. I would think that is more a factor of a lack of confidence in one's employment than cost. People are just simply cautious to spend money on anything.
 
Pilots have complained about the cost of flying since there have been airplanes!

I think you're right about people being reluctant to spend money now.


Trapper John
 
i dunno for less than the cost of a new boat or harley you can be a pilot. based on the number of people i know who boat and ride i have a hard time believing that its really "too expensive".
 
I think money is a large factor however there are many people who will spend the money it costs to get a private at the drop of a hat for, say, a new vehicle they don't need. My two cents is that many people perceive it as too much work and too many rules for a hobby.
 
tonycondon said:
i dunno for less than the cost of a new boat or harley you can be a pilot. based on the number of people i know who boat and ride i have a hard time believing that its really "too expensive".
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You might be able to get the ticket, but you won't afford to use it or keep current. Have you seen the rental fleet lately? Either buy a plane, get in a partnership (buy a plane) or get into a flying club (buy a plane) or STOP FLYING.


That's were the expense lies, not the ticket.
 
Add in that pilots and private aircraft are now so rare that most people can go their whole lives without meeting the former or flying in the latter. Before I became a pilot I had only ever met one other who had an aircraft. One doesn't tend to think about doing things unless those around one do it as well.
 
Anthony said:
You might be able to get the ticket, but you won't afford to use it or keep current. Have you seen the rental fleet lately? Either buy a plane, get in a partnership (buy a plane) or get into a flying club (buy a plane) or STOP FLYING.


That's were the expense lies, not the ticket.
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That's true too. I think many people just focus on the cost and effort to get the initial ticket. They don't think about what they are going to do afterwards. There's the "what now?" syndrome.
 
While spending money on a Harley or a fancy car is still happening a bit I see that sales are down. Most certainly cost of ownership of those two are far less than airplanes. Now boats, that is a whole nuther ball of wax. Cost of ownership can be high, fuel in high as well. A friend who owns a major boat dealership where I live is really, REALLY hurting. No one is buying boats. You think the airplane market has gone south, well I gotta tell you it is way better than boating.
 
you can pick up a nice 150 for about the same or less than a new harley.
 
tonycondon said:
i dunno for less than the cost of a new boat or harley you can be a pilot. based on the number of people i know who boat and ride i have a hard time believing that its really "too expensive".
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I agree here Tony, when I had my C-172 I had several friends ask how I could afford an airplane. I then compared the price of my airplane to the cost of the Harley they had in the garage. The C-172 was cheaper and I could use it year round compared to the 5 months they rode their Harley. The boating season here is from May to September and the majority of the boats here on TBL cost twice what the C-172 did.
 
Dean said:
If you figure in the price difference, they just about equal out.
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I don't believe it. I've maintained 30 and 40 year old aircraft. Replacing cylinders, old wiring, avionics, etc. Its way more than a Harley. You can buy a new Harley or other better bike that will not cost you anything in real maintenance for years. Plus, you can work on it yourself if you want. Not so on a certified aircraft.
 
The few folks I've been encouraging to learn to fly have all complained about cost to learn and the time required. The future rental costs isn't what is stopping them.
 
Bob Noel said:
The few folks I've been encouraging to learn to fly have all complained about cost to learn and the time required. The future rental costs isn't what is stopping them.
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That's because there are few decent crosss country airplanes to rent when you actually want to use your ticket. If they are out there,they are already schedueled when most people have the time to fly.

$10K to learn to fly is merely the application fee to flying.
 
Dean said:
If you figure in the price difference, they just about equal out.
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I don't see that. You can buy a new big Harley for $20,000-$25,000. What kind of 172 can you get for that price? One that is 30 years old? Plus you can put the Harley in your garage for no extra cost and go out and ride it whenever you want, not worrying about if both you and it are current.
 
$10K to learn to fly? thats well above average in my experience. Maintenance costs on simple airplanes like 150s and 172s can be greatly reduced with a working relationship with your local A&P. You in fact can do a lot of the work on your own under their direction and supervision.

Airplane will hold its value better than the harley too.
 
Everskyward said:
I don't see that. You can buy a new big Harley for $20,000-$25,000. What kind of 172 can you get for that price? One that is 30 years old? Plus you can put the Harley in your garage for no extra cost and go out and ride it whenever you want, not worrying about if both you and it are current.
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I agree the cost of acquiring a Harley is far less than that of a 172. I think the cost of ownership might be higher when you factor in all the cute little leatherman outfits that a Harley owner has to buy to try and look cool. :D:D
 
smigaldi said:
I agree the cost of acquiring a Harley is far less than that of a 172. I think the cost of ownership might be higher when you factor in all the cute little leatherman outfits that a Harley owner has to buy to try and look cool. :D:D
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:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Here's a disclaimer. I had some of those outfits and spent quite a bit of time on the back of a Harley in my younger years....
 
Everskyward said:
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Here's a disclaimer. I had some of those outfits and spent quite a bit of time on the back of a Harley in my younger years....
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Yeah, but Scott was talking about GUYS in leather chaps. Sans pants perhaps?


:rofl::D
 
Anthony said:
You might be able to get the ticket, but you won't afford to use it or keep current. Have you seen the rental fleet lately? Either buy a plane, get in a partnership (buy a plane) or get into a flying club (buy a plane) or STOP FLYING.


That's were the expense lies, not the ticket.
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We have a winner. I just got my ticket. As a Sport Pilot, I'm faced with the cost of a decent LSA being north of $60K for the most part, unless I want to get one that has little useful load, no electrical system and needs hand propping (I don't). I spent about $6.5K on the ticket, but now I don't know if I'll actually get to fly much at all, at least for several years until I can save enough for a good plane (I don't do debt).
 
steingar said:
You don't hand prop Ercoupes, and they don't run anywhere near 60K.
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Getting the PP Cert and buying a plane are merely application fees to the avocation. Again, its the maintenance, repair, fuel, hangar, restorations, avionics, insurance ,etc that is the real cost and often UNKNOWN
gotchas prevail even with a Scarecoupe, 150, LSA or any other thing that flies and has systems.
 
Everskyward said:
I think money is a large factor however there are many people who will spend the money it costs to get a private at the drop of a hat for, say, a new vehicle they don't need. My two cents is that many people perceive it as too much work and too many rules for a hobby.
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Bingo! Time and Money!
 
Dean said:
That is with anything mechanical, not just aircraft. I wish my 10 year old car was as reliable as my 40 year old airplane was.
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I wish my 30 year old airplane cost what my 6 year old car costs to own, repair, maintain and operate.
 
Everskyward said:
I think money is a large factor however there are many people who will spend the money it costs to get a private at the drop of a hat for, say, a new vehicle they don't need. My two cents is that many people perceive it as too much work and too many rules for a hobby.
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This is the answer. If we want GA to succeed, we need to get the FAA to either relax the private pilot certificate rules, or make the Sport Pilot Certificate more useful, including night flight and faster speeds/higher loads.

Or eliminate useless tests for the private. Eliminate everything but the absolute basic safety items:

a) Can you land?
b) Can you navigate?
c) Can you recover from a stall/spin?
d) Can you find yourself when you're lost?

Remove s-turns, turns around a point, steep turns, etc. from Private, and add them to the Commercial certificate.

Then watch the number of pilots come around. More accidents? Probably, but that's because there will be more pilots.

We need to take the "exclusivity" out of airplanes, and make it feasible for the common man.

Eliminating the TSA and removing the FAA's authority over us would help too.
 
SkyHog said:
This is the answer. If we want GA to succeed, we need to get the FAA to either relax the private pilot certificate rules, or make the Sport Pilot Certificate more useful, including night flight and faster speeds/higher loads.

Or eliminate useless tests for the private. Eliminate everything but the absolute basic safety items:

a) Can you land?
b) Can you navigate?
c) Can you recover from a stall/spin?
d) Can you find yourself when you're lost?

Remove s-turns, turns around a point, steep turns, etc. from Private, and add them to the Commercial certificate.

Then watch the number of pilots come around. More accidents? Probably, but that's because there will be more pilots.

We need to take the "exclusivity" out of airplanes, and make it feasible for the common man.

Eliminating the TSA and removing the FAA's authority over us would help too.
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1974_eating_popcorn.gif
 
steingar said:
You don't hand prop Ercoupes, and they don't run anywhere near 60K.
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Ercoupes are definitely on my short list. I don't like having a gas tank in my lap, but that's about the only thing I really don't like about them, if I can find one with rudder pedals.
 
SkyHog said:
This is the answer. If we want GA to succeed, we need to get the FAA to either relax the private pilot certificate rules, or make the Sport Pilot Certificate more useful, including night flight and faster speeds/higher loads.
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You're my new personal hero. :smilewinkgrin:
 
SkyHog said:
This is the answer. If we want GA to succeed, we need to get the FAA to either relax the private pilot certificate rules, or make the Sport Pilot Certificate more useful, including night flight and faster speeds/higher loads.
Click to expand...


Won't happen. No bureaucrat nor politician will ever risk their careers on "relaxed standards" for anything. The first accident will be blamed on the relaxed standards and then the finger pointing and witch hunts will commence.

Sport Pilot is a joke. Its to pacify us into being OK with just flying around the patch and not using GA for transportation. They want the airlines to have a monopoly on air travel.
 
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