Light Sport Update ... kinda, sorta, maybe, perhaps -

Discussion in 'Home Builders and Sport Pilots' started by Daleandee, Sep 18, 2020.

  1. Daleandee

    Daleandee Pre-takeoff checklist

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    No one knows where the FAA is headed with Light Sport Aircraft but here are some of the proposed rules changes (until they change them again):

     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2020
  2. Utah-Jay

    Utah-Jay Pre-takeoff checklist

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    2023.... such a long wait
     
  3. samiamPA

    samiamPA Pre-Flight

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    50 minute video... is there a summary / highlights article anywhere?
     
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  4. Utah-Jay

    Utah-Jay Pre-takeoff checklist

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    weight going up... 3000 a decent guess

    cruise speed going up... 140mph a good guess

    single lever operation a near certainty
     
  5. Piperonca

    Piperonca Pre-takeoff checklist PoA Supporter

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  6. Salty

    Salty Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    What the heck does that mean?
     
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  7. Challenged

    Challenged Pattern Altitude

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    Article says: Single Lever Control (in-flight adjustable prop)


    What LAMA/USUA originally requested:
    • Special-LSA (fully built, not kit) Gyroplanes
    • Aerial Work/Commercial Use of LSAs
    • Electric Propulsion
    • Single Lever Control (in-flight adjustable prop)
    Other changes under consideration by the FAA:
    • Increased weight (likely based on a formula)
    • Four seats
    • Retractable gear
    • Increased airspeed
    • Electric/Hybrid propulsion
    • A maximum stall speed and a horsepower cap
     
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  8. Salty

    Salty Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    I guess that means constant speed props that are controlled like the cirrus with the throttle control, but not where throttle and prop are two separate controls?
     
  9. tspear

    tspear Pattern Altitude PoA Supporter

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    Actually goes further. From what I have previously seen, FAA is considering constant speed prop as a part of a true single level control only.

    Currently most LSA are two levers, throttle and mixture. To get the constant speed prop, FAA is looking at requirements which only allow a single lever. Historically this meant FADEC.

    Tim

    Sent from my HD1907 using Tapatalk
     
  10. Salty

    Salty Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    OIC

    I get your interpretation now.
     
  11. Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe

    Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Variable pitch - the FADAC picks the pitch/throttle/rpm combination according to the demand from the "throttle" lever. Not really "constant speed" - more like an automatic transmission that will downshift when you thump the pedal and put you in overdrive when cruising.
     
  12. FastEddieB

    FastEddieB Final Approach

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    Since most LSA’s are ROTAX-powered, most are lacking a mixture control.

    That said, I would love a flight-adjustable prop on my Sky Arrow, constant speed or otherwise.
     
  13. Sonoran

    Sonoran Filing Flight Plan

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    Given that guiding principles are safe, simple and easy to fly, I’m surprised they’re considering retracts. The vid explains this as a natural extension of the “repositional” gear found on LSA float planes. Adding variable pitch props makes sense because they’re offloading that responsibility to a computer. But with retracts they’re adding what’s arguably the most problematic element of a complex aircraft.
     
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  14. Crashnburn

    Crashnburn Line Up and Wait

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    I'd like them to leave LSA alone, just because it seems all of the kinks in that category have been ironed out.
    Then, add Light Personal Aircraft. Somewhere between LSA and these: 3000 lb. gross weight, 140 knots, 4 seaters, maximum stall speed, etc., but no horsepower cap. I'm with Sonoran, retractable is problematic.
     
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  15. Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe

    Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    It makes sense that one would need a medical to be able to manipulate a gear lever.
     
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  16. steingar

    steingar Taxi to Parking

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    I'd like to see them increase the weight to allow Sport Pilots to fly Skyhawks and Cherokees. They're simple aircraft and there's no reason to omit them.
     
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  17. Samuel Seidel

    Samuel Seidel Filing Flight Plan

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    It's frustrating not being legal to fly a 150/152 as a sport pilot. Hopefully that changes in the near future.
     
  18. TCABM

    TCABM Pattern Altitude

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    I’m a simple guy. Align the future of LSA to the equipment and capability allowed under BasicMed today. Six place, day/night, IFR outside of Class A airspace.
     
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  19. WDD

    WDD Line Up and Wait

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    That would be an elegant, simple solution.

    Add to that
    • Eliminate the requirement of a medical prior to getting basic med.
    • Any requirement needing a 3rd class now satisfied by basic med
    • Common certification of Avionics. That is, any avionics shown to be airworthy in experimental planes are acceptable for any plane that a person with Basic Med can fly in.
    I'll wake up from this nice dream and face reality now......
     
  20. Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe

    Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    That would require an act of congress. Literally.
     
  21. Utah-Jay

    Utah-Jay Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I’d be happy with an increase in GW to 2000 lbs and a CS prop
     
  22. WDD

    WDD Line Up and Wait

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    Yep - you’re right.
     
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  23. hindsight2020

    hindsight2020 En-Route

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    I hear ya 100%. Thing is, based on what the LAMA folks were intimating in their article, that's not their priority. They're more hung up on the allowance to revenue-operate the stupid things as-is. As such, this MOSAIC is already smelling like a nothingburger for the majority of the captive audience in fac-built land or compromised medical land. Key takeaways in that article that require a bit of reading between the lines, include the emphasis on manufacturers and design kabuki going forward. That's dogwhistle for non-retroactive line items. There goes your cost savings proposition (aka the retroactive inclusion of old fac builts). This is part 23 re-write all over again. I've pretty much resigned myself to keep the Arrow and not put a nickle in upgrades until I'm able to downshift to an RV, or SF260 if I decide to do the unusual attitude clinic shtick a side hustle in mil retirement.
     
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  24. jbarrass

    jbarrass Line Up and Wait PoA Supporter

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    Not really. Private Pilot could still exist unchanged for people that want to fly internationally.

    SP for everyone else.

    (Anyways, LSA is for the plane, SP is for the pilots, it would just make SP more useful.)
     
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  25. MendLeft

    MendLeft Filing Flight Plan

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    First post. Considering sport pilot. Not in a hurry. Sorry if this is a naive question.

    If rules did change, does the above mean to imply that all existing aircraft that fit into any new rules (4 seat, <XXXX lbs GW, etc, whatever they are) would not be eligible to be flown with a sport pilot license. How exactly would that work? It would only apply to new planes that were certified to meet the new requirement?
     
  26. hindsight2020

    hindsight2020 En-Route

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    Welcome to POA.

    No of course they could. That wasn't my point. The point of my prior statement is that I infer based on my read, that such an initiative is in fact not a lobbying priority in the laundry list of things we re all getting excited about. Hence my reference about the practical outcomes of the part 23 rewrite Kabuki earlier last decade. Milquetoast incrementalism that doesn't hit the pressure point. The middle class is hollowed out, the production numbers are too inconsequential. We'll never address access with new production alone, LSA in present circumstances or not.

    It's good you're not in a hurry, because they're not even touching this in any kind of legislative manner until 2023. Do yourself a favor and go EAB as soon as you can. I was childless when I first started wasting my time musing to the AP back then about 337s and field approvals for modifications to the 4 seater spam can that's all I could afford. I'm now up to my waist with a second grader, in the time I've been waiting for Godot. I've certainly moved on, though I'm rooting for y'all. Cheers!
     
  27. Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe

    Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    The way it works now is that any aircraft that meets the requirements for speed / seats/ weight /etc.can be flown with a sport pilot certificate. How the airplane is/was originally certificated is totally irrelevant - that's why you can fly Cubs, Champs, E-AB, etc. with your sport ticket.
     
  28. MendLeft

    MendLeft Filing Flight Plan

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    Thank you both. Appreciate the clarifications.

    One other question is that I have read that weight would be based on a ratio or formula. This would be a power to weight ratio? Are different ratio's easier/safer to fly? In my mind I can think of reasons why a higher power to weight ratio could be both safer or more dangerous....but then I again I don't really know anything. Feel free to direct me to a link or tell me what to look up if this is common knowledge. Thanks.
     
  29. Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe

    Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    No way will it be as simple as power to weight. We're talking FAA here.
    And, it's to limit performance because us light and sporty guys just can't handle hot rods like the big kids.
    Don't expect it to make sense.
     
  30. frfly172

    frfly172 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    It’s all just guessing at this point, many people are making assumptions without remembering your working with the FAA. Change will come in time.
     
  31. GeorgeC

    GeorgeC Administrator Management Council Member PoA Supporter

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  32. Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe

    Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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  33. MendLeft

    MendLeft Filing Flight Plan

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    Thanks. The link really helped. Yes, looks like the power index as defined here is just a ratio of wing area square footage and horsepower.

    Not super excited about the A in EAB. What advantage would this have over ELSA if I only had a sport pilot license?...its till has to meet LSA requirements, correct?
     
  34. hindsight2020

    hindsight2020 En-Route

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    I forgot you were speaking from the purview of someone who isn't interested or can't qualify for basicmed or a class III. I was speaking more generally. Disregard my last in that case. Good luck to ya.
     
  35. MendLeft

    MendLeft Filing Flight Plan

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    Made a quick table with common single engine aircraft and if they stick with something like the criteria and equation that were mentioned, it looks unlikely that this metric (power index) would be limiting in many cases. Seems like total horsepower, air speed, stall speed or some other criteria would likely become the limiting factor before power index would.
     
  36. RyanShort1

    RyanShort1 En-Route

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    Here's hoping that if I can give flight instruction in an SLSA, I can also take pictures from it legally!!!
     
  37. FastEddieB

    FastEddieB Final Approach

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    Off topic, but I have to think drones - and Google Earth - have taken a huge bite out of the aerial photography business.
     
  38. Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe

    Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Looks like the power index equation has something wrong (or they are not using horsepower / square feet) with it as printed on that web page. A 182 comes out at 0.34, a DC-3 is 0.81... One heck of an LSA.

    But it is the FAA after all.
     
  39. MendLeft

    MendLeft Filing Flight Plan

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    I believe it’s the cubed root of P/S. A bit confusing read as inline text. I think the 182 came out right around the supposed cut off but can’t recall right now. To give you an idea, a bonanza was below the cutoff.
     
  40. MendLeft

    MendLeft Filing Flight Plan

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    A DA40 or 172 would meet the criteria currently thrown out there I believe. (Stall, max HP, power index)