Letter of Agreement on airspace

[eman1200]

Airspace background:

JQF is a Class D, ceiling 3200', that sits below Charlotte's Class B which starts at 3600'.

So yesterday I'm flying up from the south, called up JQF tower and request a transition over the field at 3000', as I have done dozens of times in the past.
Tower tells me if I haven't already called up CLT approach, that he'd handle the request, but that CLT now controls the airspace down to 3000', as per a letter of agreement they have.

I was a little confused with this, mainly hoping that I hadn't missed something in the 1800wxbrief.com briefing I got before the flight. He stated it was just informational for me and that I hadn't done anything
wrong.

So of course when I got home I did another briefing to look for this specifically, couldn't find anything. Ended up calling CLT approach on the phone, spoke with a very helpful person who agreed on all points, that CLT controls it and I should call them up, and that I hadn't done anything wrong. I also checked every current sectional I could find, and the posted airspace is still up to 3200'.

Just figured I'd share in case someone else runs across this situation.

I am also going to contact the FAA to make it perfectly clear that any 'letters of agreement' that could impact airspace eman1200 is in, should be sent to eman1200 for review. Can't believe they didn't clear this with me in the first place!

 

[Gucci Pilot]

CLT will handle the airspace request but like both said, if you want to pass through at 3400 and not talk to anyone you don't have to contact them if you don't want to. CLT just wants to be in the loop on people down to 3000.

 

[eman1200]

CLT will handle the airspace request but like both said, if you want to pass through at 3400 and not talk to anyone you don't have to contact them if you don't want to. CLT just wants to be in the loop on people down to 3000.

I totally understand. my concern is HOW would someone know this if it's not published somewhere. and who knows maybe it is published and I just don't know where.

 

[airdale]

I totally understand. my concern is HOW would someone know this if it's not published somewhere. and who knows maybe it is published and I just don't know where.

People find out about noncritical stuff like this just the way you did. No harm, no foul.

Do call the TRACON though. You will learn stuff. If you really want to learn, ask if you can visit and plug in with a controller for a couple of hours.

 

[midlifeflyer]

I totally understand. my concern is HOW would someone know this if it's not published somewhere. and who knows maybe it is published and I just don't know where.

You don't, unless you just happened to learn it form an instructor or experience, as you just did. What happened to you happened to a student of mine on a dual flight with me (although in the Denver Class B area).

It's nothing to be concerned about. No-harm-no-foul. You called an appropriate facility with no official way to know there is a LOA. Just switch to the frequency you are given and call.

Not your situation but the flip-side is probably exactly why the ATC Handbook places the responsibility for handling transitions through Class D surface areas on the TRACON controller providing Flight Following services and not on the pilot.

A TRACON controller providing FF services is require to:

Coordinate with the appropriate control tower for transit authorization when you are providing radar traffic advisory service to an aircraft that will enter another facility's airspace.

NOTE-
The pilot is not expected to obtain his/her own authorization through each area when in contact with a radar facility.​

[FAA Order 7110.65V, paragraph 2-1-16 (emphasis in the original)]

 

[Seanaldinho]

LOAs are a tricky business. They exist between ATC facilities and are generally for the controllers but yes sometimes it is nice for pilots to know as well. Probably the easiest way to find out about LOAs is to call the facility and describe yourself, VFR pilot who uses the airspace often, what can I do to help you guys out, etc etc. Or take a tower tour or approach tour and ask about LOAs.

 

[Brad Z]

LOAs are a tricky business. They exist between ATC facilities and are generally for the controllers but yes sometimes it is nice for pilots to know as well. Probably the easiest way to find out about LOAs is to call the facility and describe yourself, VFR pilot who uses the airspace often, what can I do to help you guys out, etc etc. Or take a tower tour or approach tour and ask about LOAs.

...or just not worry about it and call the anticipated ATC facility. In some cases, rather than telling you to call approach, as was the case with the OP, the tower controller may just coordinate your passage with the radar controller who has control of the airspace by agreement.

Coordination works both ways. I was once doing a practice instrument approach with a touch-and-go on an IFR cross country flight. Rather than switching me to Lynchburg Tower, the Roanoke approach controller kept me on his frequency the whole time and relayed my TnG clearance from the tower controller. I suspect the only reason he could do that was 1) there was no other traffic at the time, and 2) Roanoke Approach comm antennas were located at LYH and had comms all the way to the ground.

 

[BillTIZ]

Tower confused the issue with telling you about it. He should have just handled it, and he may have given you a squawk code from approach. No way for VFR or IFR traffic to know about LOAs between ATC facilities.

If ATC wants you to know how to work certain procedures with them, they will publish a Letter to Airman with the information. Something to the effect of, please contact CLT approach when transition to or through Class D airspace below the Class B airspace.

 

[eman1200]

Tower confused the issue with telling you about it. He should have just handled it, and he may have given you a squawk code from approach. No way for VFR or IFR traffic to know about LOAs between ATC facilities.

If ATC wants you to know how to work certain procedures with them, they will publish a Letter to Airman with the information. Something to the effect of, please contact CLT approach when transition to or through Class D airspace below the Class B airspace.

excellent, thanks. further confused by having transitioned in the same manner several times in the past but never hearing about the LOA. it's good to hear from multiple people that what happened is a non-issue.

 

[roncachamp]

Airspace background:

JQF is a Class D, ceiling 3200', that sits below Charlotte's Class B which starts at 3600'.

So yesterday I'm flying up from the south, called up JQF tower and request a transition over the field at 3000', as I have done dozens of times in the past.
Tower tells me if I haven't already called up CLT approach, that he'd handle the request, but that CLT now controls the airspace down to 3000', as per a letter of agreement they have.

I was a little confused with this, mainly hoping that I hadn't missed something in the 1800wxbrief.com briefing I got before the flight. He stated it was just informational for me and that I hadn't done anything
wrong.

So of course when I got home I did another briefing to look for this specifically, couldn't find anything. Ended up calling CLT approach on the phone, spoke with a very helpful person who agreed on all points, that CLT controls it and I should call them up, and that I hadn't done anything wrong. I also checked every current sectional I could find, and the posted airspace is still up to 3200'.

Just figured I'd share in case someone else runs across this situation.

I am also going to contact the FAA to make it perfectly clear that any 'letters of agreement' that could impact airspace eman1200 is in, should be sent to eman1200 for review. Can't believe they didn't clear this with me in the first place!

The Letter of Agreement probably just states that CLT can run aircraft through the Class D airspace down to 3000' without coordinating with the tower. These things are internal matters and needn't be published as they are done behind the scenes and have no effect on pilots. There was no need for the tower controller to mention CLT approach to you.

 

[Anymouse]

When I worked at NAS Mayport, we had Class D to 2500', however Jax Approach owned the airspace 2000' and up. When folks called for transition at 2k, we'd have to tell them to call Jax approach. This was never published anywhere I've ever looked, other than the LOA and the Mayport Ops Manual.