Less than one in five thousand

Jim Logajan

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A minority of a minority yields a mighty small number - in this case, women pilots in the U.S.
Excluding student certificates, less than 28,000 out of 150,000,000 women have earned a pilot certificate. Less than 1 in 5000.

Statistically speaking, of the two dozen some pilots I've personally met, there was only about a 1 - 0.9998^24 chance (~0.5%) that one would be a woman. Strange indeed then that two were women. Wonder if that luck would work for me if I bought lottery tickets?
 
Outside of "pilot" social groups / forums, I have NEVER met a female pilot in person. I've seen female student pilots at my flight school but not any fully cert'd pilots. I have definitely met male pilots even outside of aviation (my dad doesn't talk about it but he was one).
 
Oops. Used the wrong population. Five percent of pilots are women so the probability of meeting one in a group of 24 pilots is 1 - .95^24, which is about 71%. Now I remember why I avoid betting on games of chance. :redface:
 
Oops. Used the wrong population. Five percent of pilots are women so the probability of meeting one in a group of 24 pilots is 1 - .95^24, which is about 71%. Now I remember why I avoid betting on games of chance. :redface:
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

I knew the 1 in 5,000 wasn't right. Five percent is about what I would expect based on observation.
 
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

I knew the 1 in 5,000 wasn't right. Five percent is about what I would expect based on observation.

Actually the 1 in 5000 claim is right (it is closer to 1 in 5,464 but I rounded). How I figured the basic numbers (excluding student pilots, and using FAA figures for 2010):

508,469 pilots registered in the U.S. out of ~300,000,000 people.
27,451 female pilots registered in the U.S. out of ~150,000,000 females.

508,469/300,000,000 = 0.17% of people are pilots (1 in 590 people.)
27,451/508,469 = 5.4% of pilots are female (1 in 19 pilots.)
27,451/150,000,000 = 0.018% of females are pilots (1 in 5,464 women.)

Your acquaintances generally aren't really chosen at random, so probability numbers wont describe what you actually encounter.
 
I have been noticing lately that the connection (commuters) carriers ratio of female pilots seems to have jumped a significant amount in the last five years.

One out of every five flights have had a female pilot and on one occasion it was an all female crew.

I wonder if these commuter carriers have been purposely hiring more female pilots?

On the mainline end of the operation the ratio seems more like one out of every one hundred flights.

DISCLAIMER: There has been no scientific tracking of the actual numbers, I'm merely going by the amount of times that my head has been turned.
 
Actually the 1 in 5000 claim is right (it is closer to 1 in 5,464 but I rounded). How I figured the basic numbers (excluding student pilots, and using FAA figures for 2010):

508,469 pilots registered in the U.S. out of ~300,000,000 people.
27,451 female pilots registered in the U.S. out of ~150,000,000 females.

508,469/300,000,000 = 0.17% of people are pilots (1 in 590 people.)
27,451/508,469 = 5.4% of pilots are female (1 in 19 pilots.)
27,451/150,000,000 = 0.018% of females are pilots (1 in 5,464 women.)

Your acquaintances generally aren't really chosen at random, so probability numbers wont describe what you actually encounter.

I was talking about the ratio of female pilots to male pilots not female pilots to the entire population of the country.
 
*puts on sociologist hat* Well, yeah, it is a male dominated environment, nothing new there. The reasons why females are not as interested in pursuing vocations such as this may offend or baffle the girls scouts, feminists, equal opportunity groups et al, but it is rather simple: These vocations do not fall inside the traditional female gender role. Since women have largely gained access to labor market participation in full by now, the lack of female participation in professional aviation (and recreational aviation by pure proxy) has nothing to do with being held down by the man, and everything to do with making the conscious choice to forego vocations that get in the way of the desirable surburban mommy gender role.Engineering is another case study in which these dynamics are present, only less so in that the engineers' work schedule is more sedentary and allows a more feasible opportunity to fulfill this female archetype.

My point of observation? Female military pilots. Every year I hear of peers completely separating or otherwise hanging up the flight suit cold turkey mid career (they're all married to other military pilots too, this is not an immaterial distinction btw) to pursue motherhood. I always take a step back and recognize I'd never in a million years decide to just hang it up cold turkey, after all the hard work and sacrifice, yet these women do so at what seems to me the flip of a switch. They're as good as pilots as the men are, but they are adamant about making baby their priority as they enter their 30s. In that respect they still compare themselves to the nursing student they had for a girlfriend in college. And they want what she wants. And they envy her. And it shows.

The reason is simple. Child bearing and the homesteading that is required to be an involved traditional maternal figure is valued more in open society than having a 'neato' job that keeps you from living that archetype. Those women who are above-and-beyond aviation nuts usually end up not having children anyways and revert to more of a "part of the boys" crowd, which is great, but it doesn't fall in tune with the female line of thinking that being a desirable well-to-do suburbanite soccer mother of two with a professional white collar husband, that other women envy specifically, is the end goal. Again, I've seen this dynamic play out both in aviation and engineering. Female engineers and pilots alike recognize their lower desirability to the men their female peers (the teachers, nurses, cosmetologists, physicians, hell even military cookie cutter sunday dress wearing SAHWs) consider the target men. We are after all a gregarious species, so to the median, valuations of the pack actually carry weight. Amelia Earhart was never the archetype from which the median woman sought her self-actualization from, it has always been much much much more domesticated of an archetype.

Not saying this applies to the thread but when people talk about low female participation in aviation, based on my experience with female military pilots, I usually retort in my mind with "why fret over fixing something that isn't broken in he first place". The same thought I had when I was in engineering school and administrations and the girls scouts were scratching their nugget as to why women weren't sticking to math and science, in spite of competitive academic achievement measures that would opt them to be just as successful (bolded for emphasis for the feminists in the crowd) in the field. Ah the irony of feminism. You gave them the keys to the male front office just to find out all they wanted to ever do was be well-to-do and have her girlfriends envy the man that pays for the "privilege" of your company. Ain't irony great..

Please don't take this as a push for encouraging lack of access in the workplace. I'm all about women doing whatever they want to do; many of these female pilots were and are great sticks, my PPL flight instructor was a woman, all is good and great. Im just highlighting what should be obvious to everybody except Oprah watchers, that is, that you can't have it all in life, and the labor market makeup shows that women are indeed voting with their feet, to the great distaste of feminist. If you are a woman in these male dominated environments and you feel socially marginalized, don't go screaming at men, go talk to the female peers that make you the odd duck. Again, there's nothing wrong with being a female "insert here whatever you want to be". But there are opportunity costs in life, just as there are for men,which need to be acknowledged. To each their own. :)

Just some social commentary to spice up the fretting over useless trivia and statistical methods *yawn*
 
I had a little old man pilot walk up to me and my pilot wife and proclaim that women are like parking spaces: The good ones are taken and the rest are handicapped.
 
I'm quite sure I met a lot more than 5%, which is only 1 in 20 after all. Mari and Blanche are Coloradians, but even so we have a bunch of locals. Michelle Boyko, who flew for team #49 in 2011 ARC, has a leaseback Comanche in our FBO. The subject of my go-around video is Miss C., a beginner student at the same. Then there's Bonnie Mauldin, the first SP instructor in the state. At every fly-in there's a number of women who unfortunately I cannot remember, like one nice lady who put me in touch with my tailwheel instructor.
 
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I have been noticing lately that the connection (commuters) carriers ratio of female pilots seems to have jumped a significant amount in the last five years.

One out of every five flights have had a female pilot and on one occasion it was an all female crew.

I wonder if these commuter carriers have been purposely hiring more female pilots?

On the mainline end of the operation the ratio seems more like one out of every one hundred flights.

DISCLAIMER: There has been no scientific tracking of the actual numbers, I'm merely going by the amount of times that my head has been turned.

The regionals will hire anyone with a heartbeat that has 1000 TT that will work for the less than poverty level wages that they pay regardless of whether they are male or female.
 
The regionals will hire anyone with a heartbeat that has 1000 TT that will work for the less than poverty level wages that they pay regardless of whether they are male or female.
About that heartbeat -- a few months ago I flew at Skywest with a FA who was hit hard with a debilitating disease: a cancer perhaps, or a thyroid failure. The contrast with a robust young woman at her badge picture was most pitiful. She did her job well too, and measured every movement to conserve the energy.
 
Hindsight they are coming after you... Cue the Larry Summers witchhunt.:lol:
OT I'm always amazed at the Doctors that drop out to raise kids- all that school just to raise babies. Want to cure the doctor shortage? Start by not having med school classes that are 50% female.:stirpot:
Of course women probably make better GP's then men.:yikes:
 
The reasons why females are not as interested in pursuing vocations such as this may offend or baffle the girls scouts
Years ago I approached the Girl Scout Council about creating a Aviation Event Day.
The purpose of the event was to introduce the girls (my daughter included) to the world of aviation.
This was going to include visiting the air traffic control tower at KMCO, ARTCC, the on-field fire department,
a major airline flight operations center, FBO, fuelers and a close up walk around some B757's/B767's/B737's/MD-88's then a young eagles flight to Lakeland.

A lot of preplanning, permission seeking and butt kissing and calling in favors went on before I
approached the council with my idea and they took only two seconds to give me their response: This is the girlscouts not the boyscouts!

I took my daughter out of the girlscouts and introduced her to flying myself with the assistance of local flight school friends
and we took a group of her girl friends for a flight from KORL to KLAL for her birthday.
Many of the girls to this day tell me it was the best birthday party they ever went to.

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*puts on sociologist hat* Well, yeah, it is a male dominated environment, nothing new there. The reasons why females are not as interested in pursuing vocations such as this may offend or baffle the girls scouts, feminists, equal opportunity groups et al, but it is rather simple: These vocations do not fall inside the traditional female gender role. Since women have largely gained access to labor market participation in full by now, the lack of female participation in professional aviation (and recreational aviation by pure proxy) has nothing to do with being held down by the man, and everything to do with making the conscious choice to forego vocations that get in the way of the desirable surburban mommy gender role.Engineering is another case study in which these dynamics are present, only less so in that the engineers' work schedule is more sedentary and allows a more feasible opportunity to fulfill this female archetype.

My point of observation? Female military pilots. Every year I hear of peers completely separating or otherwise hanging up the flight suit cold turkey mid career (they're all married to other military pilots too, this is not an immaterial distinction btw) to pursue motherhood. I always take a step back and recognize I'd never in a million years decide to just hang it up cold turkey, after all the hard work and sacrifice, yet these women do so at what seems to me the flip of a switch. They're as good as pilots as the men are, but they are adamant about making baby their priority as they enter their 30s. In that respect they still compare themselves to the nursing student they had for a girlfriend in college. And they want what she wants. And they envy her. And it shows.

The reason is simple. Child bearing and the homesteading that is required to be an involved traditional maternal figure is valued more in open society than having a 'neato' job that keeps you from living that archetype. Those women who are above-and-beyond aviation nuts usually end up not having children anyways and revert to more of a "part of the boys" crowd, which is great, but it doesn't fall in tune with the female line of thinking that being a desirable well-to-do suburbanite soccer mother of two with a professional white collar husband, that other women envy specifically, is the end goal. Again, I've seen this dynamic play out both in aviation and engineering. Female engineers and pilots alike recognize their lower desirability to the men their female peers (the teachers, nurses, cosmetologists, physicians, hell even military cookie cutter sunday dress wearing SAHWs) consider the target men. We are after all a gregarious species, so to the median, valuations of the pack actually carry weight. Amelia Earhart was never the archetype from which the median woman sought her self-actualization from, it has always been much much much more domesticated of an archetype.

Not saying this applies to the thread but when people talk about low female participation in aviation, based on my experience with female military pilots, I usually retort in my mind with "why fret over fixing something that isn't broken in he first place". The same thought I had when I was in engineering school and administrations and the girls scouts were scratching their nugget as to why women weren't sticking to math and science, in spite of competitive academic achievement measures that would opt them to be just as successful (bolded for emphasis for the feminists in the crowd) in the field. Ah the irony of feminism. You gave them the keys to the male front office just to find out all they wanted to ever do was be well-to-do and have her girlfriends envy the man that pays for the "privilege" of your company. Ain't irony great..

Please don't take this as a push for encouraging lack of access in the workplace. I'm all about women doing whatever they want to do; many of these female pilots were and are great sticks, my PPL flight instructor was a woman, all is good and great. Im just highlighting what should be obvious to everybody except Oprah watchers, that is, that you can't have it all in life, and the labor market makeup shows that women are indeed voting with their feet, to the great distaste of feminist. If you are a woman in these male dominated environments and you feel socially marginalized, don't go screaming at men, go talk to the female peers that make you the odd duck. Again, there's nothing wrong with being a female "insert here whatever you want to be". But there are opportunity costs in life, just as there are for men,which need to be acknowledged. To each their own. :)

Just some social commentary to spice up the fretting over useless trivia and statistical methods *yawn*

Agreed. I went to a dinner party for the 99s. One room (the kitchen) filled with women. The other room (a dark room with a fireplace) filled only with men drinking bourbon. I chose the dark room and my boyfriend and I sat in pretty much silence while they talked about pilot stuff. Each time I'd enter the kitchen to help the women do the dishes, or get a tour of the house from the female host, or other "girlie" stuff, the topic was not aviation. So I went back to the dark room. Now I'm sure many of the women were at some point talking about flying but I did not personally hear it.
 
A lot of preplanning, permission seeking and butt kissing and calling in favors went on before I
approached the council with my idea and they took only two seconds to give me their response: This is the girlscouts not the boyscouts!
One of the reasons I didn't spend much time in the Girl Scouts.
 
A lot of preplanning, permission seeking and butt kissing and calling in favors went on before I
approached the council with my idea and they took only two seconds to give me their response: This is the girlscouts not the boyscouts!

Wow - after a bit of research on the Girl Scouts, it looks like you ran into a lousy retro-bunch. Juliette Gordon Low, the founder of the Girl Scouts, had created an aviation badge in the 1916 GS handbook!

Looks like the Ninety-Nines have had some positive influences on GS aviation activities:
http://www.ninety-nines.org/index.cfm/aeroed_girl_scouts.htm
 
The last 99s meeting I attended was this summer's Girl Scout event. There were probably at least 50 girls.
 
Women in Aviation day is perhaps the third largest event at the Air and Space/Udvar-Hazy center (behind Air and Scare and Become a Pilot Day). Lots of Girl Scout participation in this area. I don't work that one though but I'm on the hook for cooking for the Education department the night before.
 
*puts on sociologist hat* Well, yeah, it is a male dominated environment, nothing new there. The reasons why females are not as interested in pursuing vocations such as this may offend or baffle the girls scouts, feminists, equal opportunity groups et al, but it is rather simple: These vocations do not fall inside the traditional female gender role.
I actually agree with this but I also think there are plenty of women who don't give a crap about the traditional gender role although they are in the minority. On the other side of the coin I think it is more socially acceptable to be a female in a male role than a male in a female role. Unfortunately.
 
Wow - after a bit of research on the Girl Scouts, it looks like you ran into a lousy retro-bunch. Juliette Gordon Low, the founder of the Girl Scouts, had created an aviation badge in the 1916 GS handbook!
I think it was more of a personal dislike of aviation from the individual that I had to talk to at the Citrus Council than a official Girlscout policy or stance.

Looks like the Ninety-Nines have had some positive influences on GS aviation activities:
http://www.ninety-nines.org/index.cfm/aeroed_girl_scouts.htm
Good for them..



The last 99s meeting I attended was this summer's Girl Scout event. There were probably at least 50 girls.
Hopefully this is more of the norm and not an exception.
 
Agreed. I went to a dinner party for the 99s. One room (the kitchen) filled with women. The other room (a dark room with a fireplace) filled only with men drinking bourbon. I chose the dark room and my boyfriend and I sat in pretty much silence while they talked about pilot stuff. Each time I'd enter the kitchen to help the women do the dishes, or get a tour of the house from the female host, or other "girlie" stuff, the topic was not aviation. So I went back to the dark room. Now I'm sure many of the women were at some point talking about flying but I did not personally hear it.

I have a neighborhood acquaintance who flies for one of the majors. He found out I was pursuing my PPL and took an interest in my progress, so we ended up chatting about pilot stuff every time we saw each other - usually at some length. His wife was sitting next to me at a gymnastics meet the other week, and said something that bears out your anecdote. She said "...I know a lot of pilots through my husband's job. Every time the male pilots get together, all the guys do is talk about airplanes. When the women pilots get together, they never talk about them at all".

Interesting stuff, for sure.

(Apropos of nothing, my dad was a squadron commander for a C141 unit back in the late 80's. While in that job, he helped facilitate one of the very first all-female crews in the USAF. He's very proud of that accomplishment.)
 
A minority of a minority yields a mighty small number - in this case, women pilots in the U.S.
Excluding student certificates, less than 28,000 out of 150,000,000 women have earned a pilot certificate. Less than 1 in 5000.

Statistically speaking, of the two dozen some pilots I've personally met, there was only about a 1 - 0.9998^24 chance (~0.5%) that one would be a woman. Strange indeed then that two were women. Wonder if that luck would work for me if I bought lottery tickets?
Wherever I go, whenever I go, there's always a woman pilot there.
 
That's one of the things that I love about participating in the Air Race - meeting lots of female pilots. It's what keeps me going back. There are so many talented women from those who have just gotten their ticket to ones like Ruby Shelton, who may have more hours than all of us. They're in careers from motherhood to nuclear science and they're all wonderful people. And when we get together, we talk about airplanes :-)
 
Outside of "pilot" social groups / forums, I have NEVER met a female pilot in person. I've seen female student pilots at my flight school but not any fully cert'd pilots. I have definitely met male pilots even outside of aviation (my dad doesn't talk about it but he was one).

Every year at OSH Women of Aviation gather for their annual meeting, forums, and pictures.

Here is the itinerary for 2012.


http://www.airventure.org/attractions/womenventure.html


http://www.airventure.org/attractions/women_soar.html

Oh that's right you don't want to go to OSH. Never mind. :rolleyes:

;)
 
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Lynda Meeks' GirlsWithWings.org organization is currently doing their annual fundraiser, and she does a great job, if anyone is feeling generous and/or needs a tax deduction before year's end.
 
I had a little old man pilot walk up to me and my pilot wife and proclaim that women are like parking spaces: The good ones are taken and the rest are handicapped.
Wait, I thought the handicapped spaces were the good ones.:D
 
Of course, many times one wouldn't know. Female pilots don't seem to pro offer their qualifications as often as their male contemporaries. I met one at Manassas yesterday tending the FBO. She didn't tell me, a mutual friend did. Former C-130 pilot and some commercial jet time, but she never raised it while a group of us chatted. The former A-10 pilot with me was telling stories of daring deeds; she know I flew the Baron in. She just smiled and listened <g>

My niece now has her rating, but never raises it. She does wear a SIMCOM shirt on occasion. I've heard someone ask if she worked there.

Best,

Dave
 
Do you know how to tell if there is a (male) pilot in a room full of people?

He'll tell you...

Actually, I usually make it a point to tell people that Leslie's a pilot. If you think that female pilots are rare, how about minority female pilots like Leslie and Mari! Greg Brown's column in AOPA Flight Training Magazine in February is about the dearth of minority pilots.
 
At our cross country airport (I flew us in the 152 to Little River) I think it was ME that told this brand new pilot we were saying hello to that she was a jet pilot. I don't think she even mentioned it to them . . . Mari is so humble.
 
At our cross country airport (I flew us in the 152 to Little River) I think it was ME that told this brand new pilot we were saying hello to that she was a jet pilot. I don't think she even mentioned it to them . . . Mari is so humble.

Ideally when you and her (and any other woman pilot reading this) are around girls - and even other women - it becomes known to them that you are pilots and that you enjoy it. I believe you already know how influential that knowledge can be.
 
Ideally when you and her (and any other woman pilot reading this) are around girls - and even other women - it becomes known to them that you are pilots and that you enjoy it. I believe you already know how influential that knowledge can be.

Not sure, every girl I've met so far will not go NEAR a small plane. I have not yet had a female (non pilot) passenger.
 
Not sure, every girl I've met so far will not go NEAR a small plane. I have not yet had a female (non pilot) passenger.
Interesting. I was going to say something about it being regional but when I was a private pilot I lived in the same area and I had about an equal number of male and female non-pilot passengers. Off the top of my head I can remember my mom and my aunt who were both in their 60s at the time, my cousin and my two roommates. I knew it was somewhat unusual to be female but hey this was the heart of the women's movement in time and place so no one tried to discourage me for that reason. If anyone tried to discourage me it was a guy I was seeing at the time who thought I should be paying more attention to school and not flying. I never took him for a ride. Of course he because a successful Landscape Architect (our major), unlike me, who quickly decided that designing and planning was not my cup of tea and neither was he.
 
hindsight2020 nailed it.

I've had one female passenger who was a stranger. They were giving Young Eagles rides at Front Range (KFTG), and I happened to be just doing some local flying that day. They were Cub Scouts getting the Young Eagles rides, and I saw their Den Mother sitting there looking a bit lost. I asked her when here ride was going to be, and she told me that only the kids were getting airplane rides. I felt bad for her so I said I'd take her up right now. She accepted, and she had a nice little flight, as it was her first time in a small plane.

To be fair, I've had guys chicken out after making a big deal of wanting to fly with me.
 
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