Legalities of flying low over populated areas

Geico266 said:
Why would you feed the troll? :nono:

Seriously, morons, wake up. This guy is a troll looking for information to hurt GA. Shut up! :dunno:
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Whatever. Have some fun with the clown. If he really wanted to take out little planes he should start learning to fly and get the inside track on all our secrets.
 
Velocity173 said:
Look up at the aircraft with your arm fully extended and your thumb up. If your thumb does not completely cover the aircraft, it's too low and you can report him to the FAA. Far more accurate than calling a TRACON.
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The math doesn't work on that one for 500'.
 
Another do-gooder who doesn't care about working folks. Take your argument to:

FAA (they do work)
GAMA General Aviation Manufacturer's Association
All the suppliers that just build components for aircraft manufacturers
Aircraft maintenance schools
Flight training facilities and colleges
Airport authorities
Aircraft Maintenance Techician Society

Don't forget to let the international students that come to train here, that more affordable training is no longer available in this country.

Be sure to tell the IRS that this money train is drying up.

Be sure to tell the international owners of thousands and thousands of USA built aircraft that their airplanes are no longer supported.

BTW, I can't wait to see your house on a list of distressed properties.
 
I say give all those homes built off airports to pilots. We would love to live in them. Build a hangar and taxi to airfield. There are communities that do just this.
 
Can we lock this troll thread yet? We shouldn't even be giving this guy the time of day.
 
Non Compos Mentis said:
"Blank" thinks general aviation should be regulated out of existence.

Claims that he/she has proof of how dangerous small airplanes are to society, but will not post it.
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If we are shutdown how can I spray chemtrails? I guess my drone operation will have to pull double-duty.
 
blank said:
I am undertaking a survey in my city. Once I have at least a thousand responses I will publish the results. The preliminary results are quite interesting. The survey begins with some cold questions then provides some interesting facts about general aviation then further questions. What is interesting is that many people are under the mistaken belief that GA is as safe as flying on the major airlines which it is not. Another surprising fact that most are not aware of is that small plane fuel contains brain damaging lead. Once informed I think you will be surprised about how the non flying public feels about your "hobby". The "before" and "after" results are eye opening.

Have a WONDERFUL happy day.

PS I have no beef with those of you in twin engine planes or jets.
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Ohhhhh I see. A "survey" where you give biased (and incorrect) "facts" to the people answering before they answer. There's a way to get real scientific data. Ever seen any of the skits on comedy shows where they go out on the street asking people dumb questions about things that aren't true, and the people just go along with it? That's the quality you're going for obviously.

If you're really trying to get data you need to first research how to do a scientific study.
 
blank said:
Another surprising fact that most are not aware of is that small plane fuel contains brain damaging lead.
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You must live directly under the flight path of single engine airplanes.

Have a WONDERFUL happy day. :goofy:
 
Geico266 said:
Why would you feed the troll? :nono:

Seriously, morons, wake up. This guy is a troll looking for information to hurt GA. Shut up! :dunno:
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Because this information is not damaging and there is no way this guy will ever hurt GA.
 
I'm late to the party, and don't feel like reading through 57 posts of varying quality, so I'll simply post the basic rules for airplanes and the FAA's interpretation of them:
Sec. 91.119

Minimum safe altitudes: General.

Except when necessary for takeoff or landing, no person may operate an aircraft below the following altitudes:
(a) Anywhere. An altitude allowing, if a power unit fails, an emergency landing without undue hazard to persons or property on the surface.
(b) Over congested areas. Over any congested area of a city, town, or settlement, or over any open air assembly of persons, an altitude of 1,000 feet above the highest obstacle within a horizontal radius of 2,000 feet of the aircraft.
(c) Over other than congested areas. An altitude of 500 feet above the surface, except over open water or sparsely populated areas. In those cases, the aircraft may not be operated closer than 500 feet to any person, vessel, vehicle, or structure.
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The big question arising is "What constitutes a 'congested' area?" From some NTSB Orders on the subject:

http://www.ntsb.gov/legal/o_n_o/docs/Aviation/3646.pdf
Respondents claim, to the contrary, that Shepard Mesa is not such an area. Although the Administrator's reply inexplicably fails to address this claim, it is without foundation in case law. See, e.g., Administrator v. Harkcom, 35 C.A.B. 934, 937 (1962), and cases cited there. Thus, the Shepard Mesa subdivision -- comprised of a minimum of 20 houses, in an area approximately .5 mi. x .66 mi. -- would qualify as a congested area.

http://www.ntsb.gov/legal/o_n_o/docs/Aviation/3693.PDF
...you operated or caused to be operated N4709P, over a congested area of Malibu, namely Civic Center Way, at an altitude of 250 feet AGL [above ground level], descending over a Hughes Market and the Malibu Country Market, flaps down and slow speed, until it reached an altitude of about 100 feet AGL, headed toward a field just south of the Court House at 23525 Civic Center Way. When at an altitude of about 100 feet AGL over the Malibu Country Market, you began a climb out. There were many shoppers in the markets and adjacent parking lots.

http://www.ntsb.gov/legal/o_n_o/docs/Aviation/4080.PDF
During the course of the above flight you made several low passes over a congested area, specifically the Pearce Ford Tower at Western Kentucky University, Bowling Green, Kentucky,...

http://www.ntsb.gov/legal/o_n_o/docs/Aviation/4188.PDF
In the Board's view, even if Interstate 5, a major California freeway, is not "bumper to bumper" on a late Saturday afternoon, moderate traffic in every lane still renders it "congested," for purposes of the regulation. See also Administrator v. Dutton, NTSB Order No. EA-3204 (1990) (Moderate traffic on a highway at 12:55 p.m. is a congested area for purposes of the minimum safe altitude regulation).

http://www.ntsb.gov/legal/o_n_o/docs/Aviation/4210.PDF
...respondent operated his Cessna 172 aircraft within 100-200 feet of the ground in the Revere-Saugus, MA area on July 11, 1992, in the vicinity of a large regatta (including "Tall Ships") commemorating the 500th anniversary of Columbus' voyage. The nearby ground and water areas were congested, and respondent would not have been able to make a safe emergency landing.

BTW, I think the first one cited (in which a clump of 20 houses is considered a "congested area") is the strictest interpretation of the term "congested area" in that context, and one which should be weighed carefully by any pilot considering flight below 1000 AGL.
 
Velocity173 said:
Look up at the aircraft with your arm fully extended and your thumb up. If your thumb does not completely cover the aircraft, it's too low and you can report him to the FAA. Far more accurate than calling a TRACON.
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But I'm a TRex and have tiny little arms.....
 
Except when necessary for takeoff or landing, no person may operate an aircraft below the following altitudes:
(a) Anywhere. An altitude allowing, if a power unit fails, an emergency landing without undue hazard to persons or property on the surface.

So really this means that if someone has to do an emergency landing and lands on a road narrowly missing drivers or in a shopping parking lot also nearly slaughtering innocent bystanders, then they were not high enough to be able to choose a location away from where people are.

Some pilots need to be more socially responsible!

I said "some". Don't get all excited now. Calm down and carry on.

:lol:
 
I promise to behave this time. Please don't kill me. But if you do, no hard feelings I'll just come back.

:D
 
blank said:
I have no beef with those of you in twin engine planes or jets.
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How about me?

gallery_6_7_87041.jpg
 
blank said:
What is interesting is that many people are under the mistaken belief that GA is as safe as flying on the major airlines which it is not.
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Many pilots have that misconception as well. In reality, it's comparable to riding a motorcycle.

Fortunately, it's rare for a small plane to hurt someone on the ground, whereas automobiles kill pedestrians every day.

Another surprising fact that most are not aware of is that small plane fuel contains brain damaging lead.
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Several lead-free replacement fuels have been developed, and the FAA is testing them for certification.
 
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Palmpilot said:
Many pilots have that misconception as well. In reality, it's comparable to riding a motorcycle.

Fortunately, it's rare for a small plane to hurt someone on the ground, whereas automobiles kill pedestrians every say.



Several lead-free replacement fuels have been developed, and the FAA is testing them for certification.
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Now be sensible here. Logic and Reason have no place in this thread...
 
blank said:
What is interesting is that many people are under the mistaken belief that GA is as safe as flying on the major airlines which it is not.
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I flat out don't believe that. Most non-pilots think GA flying is tantamount to suicide. I know people that will bungee jump or cliff dive that wouldn't go up in a small plane to save their Mother's life. People have absolutely ridiculous ideas of how unsafe GA is.
 
Shepherd said:
But I'm a TRex and have tiny little arms.....
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Generally people with Trex arms have small thumbs. This will make up for the shorter reach and won't affect accuracy. Works for all US aircraft minus B-52s. Wingspan is just too long.
 
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JOhnH said:
I flat out don't believe that. Most non-pilots think GA flying is tantamount to suicide. I know people that will bungee jump or cliff dive that wouldn't go up in a small plane to save their Mother's life. People have absolutely ridiculous ideas of how unsafe GA is.
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Good point. I forgot about that.
 
vontresc said:
Now be sensible here. Logic and Reason have no place in this thread...
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I like to see if I can remain calm while others are getting emotional. It's good practice for Thanksgiving.
 
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